Test starter out of car

[PoochyCor]

How can I test a starter while it's out of the car? BTW, it's a started for a 6-volt Kadett.

[wrench459]

would you please give us more info
I'm guessing the starter wont turn the '64 engine over.
I've been kicked in the butt so many times with this
ie...check the bendix only turns one way on the "bench" installed the starter and guess what?
bad bendix :-(
more info on whats the problem pretty please

[PoochyCor]

The starter wouldn't do anything when I tried to turn it over so I decide to pulled it out, clean it up and see what I had. Got it out, wiped it off and decided I'd bench test it before I tear it down.

The car hasn't run in 15+ years and I have no idea whether the starter worked then. The engine will turn over by hand and the battery lead to the starter is hot. That's where I am at this point.

[namba209]

Your best bet is to take it to any auto parts store that has the capabilities to check out the starter, and they'll do it for free. just don't forget to tell them it's a 6 Volt starter. If I knew the configuration of the starter, I could tell you how to check it out with a good battery and a set of jumper cables. But you'd have to have a 6 volt battery with a good charge on it.

[timemachine]

A set of jumper cables and a screwdriver is all you need to test the starter out of the car. Clamp the negative cable from a good battery to the starter frame around the starter mounting holes (make sure there is good contact) and the positive to the heavy copper stud where the red or + cable usually connects. Then you can just use the screwdriver to short the + cable to the terminal the starter switch connects right next to it. The starter should spin and the solenoid should thrust the starter gear out to where it meets the flywheel. If it binds, buzzes or smokes you have a bad starter. If it spins but the starter gear doesn't move you have a bad solenoid.

Years ago I bought a rebuilt starter or two only to find the + or ground cable was bad. It's very common.

Jim

[GTJIM]

Clamp the starter in a vice or "G"-clamp it to the bench as when it does go it will 'torque' itself around the bench.

THe most probable fault is that the brushes have stuck in their holders and/or the copper commutator they contact with has corroded.

Starters are real simple devices and easily dismantled to check the insides.
You should be able to remove the end cap the brushes mount on to see if they are OK - even look in under the thin sheet metal cover clamped around one end - if it has one.

THe 6volt starter may well have similar components to the 6volt VW starters as they are probably Bosch ones too. If you have a local VW shop that specialises in 'Dune Buggys' or older VWs then ask there.

[PoochyCor]

It spins but the starter gear doen't thrust out. Is it any use to take the solenoid apart and clean it up?

[namba209]

That's interesting. The piston inside the solenoid is mechanicly hooked to the bendix gear on the starter shaft. So when the piston slides forrward by the elecgtromagnetic forces, to make internal contact with the battery positive connection and the starer motor connection, the gear should slide rearward towards, and engage the flywheel. Are you sure you hooked up the booster cables positive to the same connection the battery cables is connected to? That should be the top connection on the solenoid. Then jumper from that connection to one of the smaller connections, either left or right and below the top connection. There should be a very loud click and the starter motor rotates, if not, jumper the other small connection to the same top connector on the solenoid. HTH.

[PoochyCor]

I connected the negative to the starter body, positive to the large bolt on the soleniod and jumped from that to the tab connector on the solenoid - nothing (but a few spark).

If I jump from the large bolt to the bolt beside it (seems to hold a clamp that attaches to solinoid to the starter) then the starter spins.

[PoochyCor]

I took the solenoid off and the plunger moves easily. I tried to take the back side off (end with the electrical connections) and it appears that I'd have to pull wires out to get it off so I stopped. When I pulled the starter trigger manually (to move it forward) it moved it forward easily.

Solenoid bad?

[namba209]

Here's a link to a spare starter I have for my V-6. It's a little different than the Opel starter, but the basics are still the same. Read the thread then look at the pics and you can see the similarities. HTH.

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/1a-star...t-starter.html

[GTJIM]

I hope we are not mistaking that a 6 volt starter is constructed exactly the same as a later 12 volt Opel one ....
Is it possible for you to post a picture of your starter, please!

[wrench459]

Did Opel keep the same wiring from a 64 - 70 ? or does anyone have a diagram(wiring for the 64)
when the red cable B+ gets hot its a sign of high current draw
could be brushs,armature,or solenoid or a bad ground,.. bushings
do you have a voltmeter handy?
if so with the starter installed on the car
place the pos. lead from the meter to B+ on the battery
and the neg. lead on the top post of the starter
try to start the engine the voltmeter should not go over 1 volt.
then to test the neg. side place the neg. lead on the neg. center post of the battery and the pos lead on the stater case
again try to start the engine the voltmeter again should not over .5 volts
this testing is call voltage drops
the current draw for a good starter is around 200 amps
good luck in your diagnosis
bench testing for 100 % accuracy is impossible IMOO

[PoochyCor]

Alright, I give up I can't get an image to attach. Here's how the starter connects:

(-)Negative connects to mounting bolt

(+)Power from battery connects to large bolt on solenoid

(+)Power from key switch connects to a tab connector on the solenoid

That's it. I can get the starter to spin but not come forward by arcing the power from the battery to the bolt that holds the solenoid to the mounting bracket on the starter.

I haven't had a chance to put it back in the car yet, may not for a few days.

Any way to diagnose based on the info I've given?

I can get a rebuilt on ebay shipped for $55 - but if I can save a buck

[guyopel]

Sounds like you need to test the solenoid . If you have a Ohm meter connect one lead to the starter case ( clean paint , etc. off ) and the other lead goes to the "tab"on the solenoid and this should read the res. or show a short to ground ( case ) or a open ( this is what may be
the problem ) and you will need a new solenoid . if you can get a starter for $55.00 that may be your best choice . HTH
John

[PoochyCor]

I got something around 1 M ohm. OK, I'm not sure what the tiny M on the readout means but that's what I got. Mean anything?

[GTJIM]

1 mega ohm = 1 million ohms ... that is lots of reistance and shows that there is no electical contact inside the solenoid. Looks like the wire coil sealed inside has broken and you need a new soleniod ... or a replacement starter.

[oldopelguy]

In 10 minutes any parts store can tell you if the starter is good or not. You already have it out of the car, just take it in, they hook it up to a machine, and *poof* it's either good or not and they'll probably even tell you what's wrong with it. Advance Auto even sells one with a $3 core charge for $40. I couldn't fix one and send it to you for that.

[PoochyCor]

Just got off the phone with the local Advanced Auto - no luck. Since it's as 6 volt they can't test it or get it. 2 years newer and I'd be in business.

And off to Ebay...

[oldopelguy]

Oops. forgot you had the 6V one. Advance should have Borg Warner solenoid part #S908 which *should* work for your starter for @$50. See if they can get one in for you to look at and compare with yours

[namba209]

O.K. as stated previously, your starter motor is working. When you hook up the positive the the "large nut tht holds the solenoid", that's actually the lower contact the large washer inside the solenoid is supposed to hit and route power from the top contact to the bottom one. IDK how your solenoid is attached to the starter housing, but look real close and see if there are bolts or screws holding the solenoid to the front of the starter housing above the nose of the starter. You'll have to remove the nut at the base of the solenoid, remove the screws or bolts and possibly rotate the solenoid housing, there may be a tang that slips into a groove holding the solenoid. Once it is loose, it should slide off the piston and large spring. Then being very careful, you can remove the back of the solenoid, exposing the internal contacts. There will be a large copper washer and two copper contacts, and a wire attached to the spade lug connector. It may be possible to rotate the contacts 180 degrees and possibly flip the washer over so new contact material will be available. Also it's a good time to clean the piston and the sleeve it slides in so it will move freely. If the magnetic windings are o.k., your starter may have a new lease on life.

[PoochyCor]

I'll give them a call tomorrow - and check with the local VW house to see if a 6 volt VW solenoid might work (seems like somebody suggested that a couple days ago).

[PoochyCor]

WAIT! Just read Namba's post. That's what I'll do tomorrow. (is it obvious, yet, that I'll do nearly anything to save a dime?)

[PoochyCor]

Finally bought the parts to fix the starter. Came to ~$24. Well, actually I bought a rebuilt starter on ebay fo $15 + $9 shipping. It's hard to find parts for the old girl but when I do they are reasonable.