Starting / charging problems

[pecje]

Recently I have problems starting the car. I read a lot of the old threads which handle this problem, but I still don't understand quite well how to figure out what part is broken. It looks like my battery isn't charging enough.

I tested the alternator according the descriptions given in the Opel GT Owners Manual on page 104. In my case when bridging the regulator plug connections the idiot light starts to glow when turning the key, but then dies immediately when the car runs. Also the regulator becomes hot on the underside near the connector. Can I conlude from that that the regulator is broken or are there other ways to find this out? If the regulator works correct does the idiot light then have to keep burning when the motor is running?

The attached picture shows how everything is situated under the hood.

Can anybody tell me what number 1 is?. It is mounted between the voltage regulator and the alternator.
Could this part cause the problem and how can I found out if it's working properly? Can I by-pass this without damaging the system?

What does regulator nr. 2 do? (it has the marking SK 6401 on it)


Patrick

[markandson]

As far as I know you should be able to bypass #1, I do not know what it is. Where do the wires go that are connected to #2, is looks like is might be a relay for something.

[american opel]

you can put a multimeter on your battery when it is running and it should be at 14.75 volts.if it is a little lower than that its fine.the one wire that goes to your coil should be your tack wire"ground"you can also check if your alt. is working bt starting your car while running you should be able to take off pos. battery cable and the car should still run

[opelbits]

I don't if this helps, but... years ago I had problems with a GT that was burning up alternators/regulators/batteries. It was hard to start and just when you think the battery was dea, it fire up just fine.

It turned out that a previous owner had mixed up the wires going from the alternator to the regulator. I was dumping 20 volts straight to ground. Of course, in my attempts to find the problem, I saw how bad those wires were and replaced them. One at a time, you know, so I don't get them mixed up, not knowing they were already mixed up!

Given you have an unknown object (#1), I would double check the alternator/regulator wiring harness. I may be that something is switched around. If you can't confirm the wires coming out of #1, remove it and plug the harness into the regulator.

[opelbits]

Now that I look at #1 more, I think it may a radio noise suppressor/filter.

[pecje]

Took some extra photo's of the cylinder shaped regulator and the square relay.
As mentioned before, the cylinder is positioned between the alternator and the voltage regulator.
Question: is this an aftermarket regulator or an original one and most important of all: what is it?

The square relay is fed by wires from the same electrical cable that feeds the electrical window washer pump.

Since it's already Sunday evening here in Holland I will try all your suggestions tomorrow evening after work.

[wrench459]

look here http://www.opelgt.com/forums/attachm...-regulator.jpg
D- reg. ground better be good
D- is grounded by the case of the voltage regulator and also the alternator (common ground)

[pecje]

Checked and cleaned all the groundings and other electrical wiring, they are OK.
Opened the voltage regulator (already ordered a new one) and found a kind of spool and some sort of breaker points.
When I run the car and let the breaker point make contact to one of the sides, the battery gives 14 V on my multimeter, the indicator on the dash reads 0 V.
When I make contact to the other side, the battery reads 18 V and the meter on the dash says + 30 V. The indicator light is not burning. The car starts to run slower.
Can I conclude from this that the voltage regulator is broken and that the alternator is OK
Please guys give me some feedback, I'm absolutely where electricity is involved.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by pecje Took some extra photo's of the cylinder shaped regulator and the square relay. As mentioned before, the cylinder is positioned between the alternator and the voltage regulator. Question: is this an aftermarket regulator or an original one and most important of all: what is it? The square relay is fed by wires from the same electrical cable that feeds the electrical window washer pump. Since it's already Sunday evening here in Holland I will try all your suggestions tomorrow evening after work.

The positioning of the cylidrical object between your original regulator and your alternator indicates it's most likely an RFI filter to suppress radio noise, as already mentioned.

Getting back to your original charging problem for a moment . . .

Not so long ago, several of us "fairly smart" Opelers spent several hours on a similar "charging" problem where the ammeter "idiot light" would intermittently not turn off after the engine was running! In the course of most of a Saturday afternoon, we rechecked all associated alt/reg/ammeter connections, swapped alternators, swapped regulators and swapped the alt/reg connecting wires an embarrasing number of times, all to no avail!!

Finally, I looked at the schematic one more time and noticed the only connections we'd all overlooked . . . the four "stud/star-washer/nut" main power connections in the center of the fuse box with fat red/white wires on one side and fat red wires on the other side!

Removed the nuts and star washers, cleaned wire lugs, replaced lugs, star washers and nuts . . . lo and behold, fired right up and no more "charge" problems, then or since!

[namba209]

Originally Posted by pecje Checked and cleaned all the groundings and other electrical wiring, they are OK. Opened the voltage regulator (already ordered a new one) and found a kind of spool and some sort of breaker points. When I run the car and let the breaker point make contact to one of the sides, the battery gives 14 V on my multimeter, the indicator on the dash reads 0 V. When I make contact to the other side, the battery reads 18 V and the meter on the dash says + 30 V. The indicator light is not burning. The car starts to run slower. Can I conclude from this that the voltage regulator is broken and that the alternator is OK Please guys give me some feedback, I'm absolutely where electricity is involved.

The spool is an electromagnet that opens and closes the points, which tells the alternator to charge or not. In the first scenario with one set of points closed, there is no flow from the alternator, as indicated by the O AMPS indication in the instument panel ammeter and the 14 Volts nominal battery state. When the other points are closed, regulator tells the alternator to go to full charge as indicated by the 30 AMPS and the 18 Volts along with the engine slowing down. It appears to be normal operation for the points function. During normal operation, the points will open and close as needed to keep the battery charged. I'd go along with what Otto said about the four studs and wires in the center of the fuse panel.

[pecje]

Still having problems!
Bought a new voltage regulator and installed it. When the car is not running the battery reads 12.4 V, when the car is started it reads 13.7 V (even with the lights, radio and heater on it still reads 13.4 V). So my guess is that the battery is charging. However when the enigine is warm and I let the car stand for about one hour and if I then try to start the car, the battery appears to be flat. The startermotor makes a few turns and then dies (as it normally does with a flat battery). Even when I turn the key off, the starter-motor tries to make some turns. The idiot light of the volt meter glows brightly
When I let the car cool for a while, the car starts again, all the electrical equipment works normal.
Can anybody tell me what is happening here: defective battery or some kind of short-circuiting?

[yellaopelgt]

I had a problem a while back that was similar in symptoms. When hot, the car would BARELY turn over(luckily I never got stranded). But after a bit of sitting and cool down time,it would turn over just fine. Battery and charging system worked fine. I cleaned all ground connections, I suspected the heat expansion might be causing a short or poor connection when hot. It did seem to help somewhat but did not resolve the issue entirely. Next thing I did was replaced both battery cables(they looked fine, but due to the age of them it needed to be done anyway). After that was done... I never had the problem again. I suspect it could be a combination of several things, but electricity is kind of a bear to track down for me as well. Not sure if this will help you,but things like this need to be done to a 40 year old car anyway.
just a thought....
Joe

[Nathan Acree]

The problem is your starter- probably the starter solenoid. After heat soaking the solenoid (the high-current contactor that supplies full battery current to the starter) fails and you get very little current to the starter. The quickest fix is to replace the starter. Otherwise you can take apart the solenoid and clean and polish the contacts and lubricate everything with high temp grease. Sometimes the problem can be with the starter motor too. As it gets hot it can either short windings or become very high impedance.

Check your cables too, but I would bet money its the starter itself.

-Nathan Acree
Albuqueruqe New Mexico