Starter Removal

[grslightng02]

I wanted to pick members' brains and see if they can help me out. I bought a new starter to install in my 70 GT and have removed all but the lower bolt. The ratchet and socket don't clear in that small area so I was unable to get anywhere. I tried a flexible neck attachment to the socket but there's too much tension. A crescent wrench has nowhere to move from below or up above.

My last idea is to go out and buy a ratchet wrench...

Any suggestions?

[namba209]

Why not get an extension that is a tad longer than the starter motor, then lay it up alongside the motor, engaging the bolt head in the socket and ratchet away.

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by grslightng02 I wanted to pick members brains and see if they can help me out. I bought a new starter to install in my 70 GT and have removed all but the lower bolt. The ratchet and socket don't clear in that small area so I was unable to get anywhere. I tried a flexible neck attachment to the socket but there's too much tension. A crescent wrench has nowhere to move from below or up above. My last idea is to go out and buy a ratchet wrench... Any suggestions?

Did you use an extension with the socket and the socket wrench? it is possible to remove that bolt with a socket, if that doesn't work use a box spanner.
The person who designed that should have been shot

[grslightng02]

RROSSJR just gave me an excellent pointer that I just found in my Chilton manual. I need to replace the upper bolt (to hold the weight) and remove the lower bolt first. I'll let you know how it goes.

Neil

[Dennis Texas]

Originally Posted by grslightng02 My last idea is to go out and buy a ratchet wrench... Any suggestions?

yup I use two extensions one universal and a rachet handle all 3/8 you are correct remove bottom bolt first and when you put the replacement in snug the top one first get clay or if your lucky enough to find your magnetic socket holder then slide the bar try to get square and turn extensions with fingers until it is started and tighten it on home. Also if you remove the bracket that holds the back of starter to the engine it is a lot easier to get starter out and in.

[grslightng02]

My roomate and I tinkered again and tried to replace the upper bolt and I still can't get clearance to reach the lower bolt AND turn the bolt at the same time. I guess I'll get a flat ratchet wrench. Any other suggestions????

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by grslightng02 My roomate and I tinkered again and tried to replace the upper bolt and I still can't get clearance to reach the lower bolt AND turn the bolt at the same time. I guess I'll get a flat ratchet wrench. Any other suggestions????

. . . when all else fails, try a "crowfoot", extension and ratchet to break it free . . .

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by grslightng02 I guess I'll get a flat ratchet wrench. Any other suggestions????

If you mean the ratching box wrench, I don't recall they came on the tool market until well after the GT went out of production. So the factory didn't expect mechanics to use one to get to that lower starter bolt.

[BQS4]

Originally Posted by namba209 Why not get an extension that is a tad longer than the starter motor, then lay it up alongside the motor, engaging the bolt head in the socket and ratchet away.

I did something like this. I have dozens of extensions and putting them together in various combinations gets you through situations. My removal process was like this:
Loosen the top one till it's almost out, but, will hold the starter up. Find the right combo of extensions to just get by the front of the starter, but, before the motor mount. Ratchet the bottom bolt out, I think it requires a 17mm socket, and as the bolt comes out move the starter with it till you can remove the bottom bolt with your fingers. Then remove the top bolt.

[grslightng02]

Thanks for the pointers BQS4... the problem is I can't get a socket to clear between the starter and the bolt. I can get the socket partially onto the bolt, but even when I do there's not enough room to move the ratchet with any combination of extensions.

I think this is the tool I'm going to have to go buy...

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by grslightng02 Thanks for the pointers BQS4... the problem is I can't get a socket to clear between the starter and the bolt. I can get the socket partially onto the bolt, but even when I do there's not enough room to move the ratchet with any comination of extensions. I think this is the tool I'm going to have to go buy...

Yup. That's a ratcheting box wrench. Relatively new tool to the market.
Could you post a picture of the socket/interference problem you are experiencing. It seems like a ratchet handle extension with a universal joint and thin wall socket would fit. But maybe not.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by grslightng02 Thanks for the pointers BQS4... the problem is I can't get a socket to clear between the starter and the bolt. I can get the socket partially onto the bolt, but even when I do there's not enough room to move the ratchet with any comination of extensions. I think this is the tool I'm going to have to go buy...

. . . won't work . . . because the tool's ratchet mechanism makes it too fat to fit around the bolt head, trust me on this!

[Paul]

Originally Posted by BQS4 I did something like this. I have dozens of extensions and putting them together in various combinations gets you through situations. My removal process was like this: Loosen the top one till it's almost out, but, will hold the starter up. Find the right combo of extensions to just get by the front of the starter, but, before the motor mount. Ratchet the bottom bolt out, I think it requires a 17mm socket, and as the bolt comes out move the starter with it till you can remove the bottom bolt with your fingers. Then remove the top bolt.

I had to do several starter R&R's this past winter. The trick I found for the bottom is similar to what Gene describes. I found the right combination of extensions that WOULD PASS THRU the hole in the sub frame. You MUST use a short socket HOWEVER you can NOT get the bolt more than half off this way as it will bind on the starter housing. you MUST finger it off the rest of the way. A pair of rubberized mechanics/garden gloves helps with this...

I would break loose and remove the bottom one completely first. THEN remove the top one. Because if there's any weight or friction on the bottom bolt you'll not be able to finger it off.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Paul Originally Posted by BQS4 I did something like this. I have dozens of extensions and putting them together in various combinations gets you through situations. My removal process was like this: Loosen the top one till it's almost out, but, will hold the starter up. Find the right combo of extensions to just get by the front of the starter, but, before the motor mount. Ratchet the bottom bolt out, I think it requires a 17mm socket, and as the bolt comes out move the starter with it till you can remove the bottom bolt with your fingers. Then remove the top bolt. I had to do several starter R&R's this past winter. The trick I found for the bottom is similar to what Gene describes. I found the right combination of extensions that WOULD PASS THRU the hole in the sub frame. You MUST use a short socket HOWEVER you can NOT get the bolt more than half off this way as it will bind on the starter housing. you MUST finger it off the rest of the way. A pair of rubberized mechanics/garden gloves helps with this... I would break loose and remove the bottom one completely first. THEN remove the top one. Because if theres any weight or friction on the bottom bolt you'll not be able to finger it off.

. . . what both of you have said is true, but I'll add two observations based on personal experience.

First, neither of the two main mounting bolts can be removed completely, as stated, without removing the bracket bolt first and loosening the other mounting bolt sufficiently to allow pulling the starter forward a bit for clearance.

Second, if you've ever separated the transmission from the engine, you may have noticed two small circles inscribed on the front face of the bellhousing directly opposite the starter's mounting bolts . . . when tighted fully, those bolts protrude about .005" past the engine's bellhousing mounting surface.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that Opel didn't catch this, but it really doesn't hurt anything as the bellhousings are aluminum and the starter bolts will just "mark" the bellhousing face slightly. Lest anyone here think I'm particularly omniscient, I'll readily admit that I first noticed this only recently when rebuilding the engine in my Kadett a couple of months ago. I checked two 4-speeds that were replaced by Getrags and they show the same marks.

Why am I even mentioning this? . . . because you can make any future removal of these pesky mounting bolts much less complicated . . . simply grind about 3/16" (~5mm, ~3 threads) off the mounting bolt threads, just enough to allow complete removal without having to loosen the other one!

[oldopelguy]

I usually swap them out with studs and nuts, myself, but shortening the bolts sounds cheaper and quicker than ordering parts.

Though I've never had any real trouble getting them out. Very shallow socket, 12" extension, ratchet. With as much trouble as this guy seems to be having, I'd swap up to 15mm 3/8-drive impact swivel socket (the ball and socket kind) then universal joint, then 12" extension and ratchet. That would give you a little wiggle on the front.

[grslightng02]

Thanks for the advice on not trying the ratchet flat wrench. That would have just been one more tool I didn't need to buy. I'll go down to the hardware store and see if I can find the 17mm? socket in a more shallow depth to get that clearance.

[wrangler]

Check out this post in regards to using a stubby ratchet and extension for that starter bolt.
HTH,
Brett


http://www.opelgt.com/forums/mechani...ubby#post86338

[grslightng02]

Hey everyone thanks for all the suggestions and advise. While at SEARS the other day I found a flat ratcheting box wrench that had a pivoting head for $20. I figured why not try it?

I hired a mechanic to come by my place and he and I worked together and between that tool and a shorter 17mm socket and several extensions we were able to get the old starter out.

Tomorrow I have to take a second shot at correctly hooking up the wiring. Dieter (BMWOnly) sent me pics of how stock wiring is hooked up. I'm keeping my fingers crossed this solves the problem of starting my car. There is a car show on Saturday 30th about 2 miles from my house I'd love to debut my car in.

[grslightng02]

Oh yeah I had to laugh...the guy I hired to come help me work on pulling and installing the new starter was originally from Russia. He told me he's been here in America, California for 15 years now and this was the first time he'd seen ANY Opel ! He had fond memories of them back home in Russia.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Second, if you've ever separated the transmission from the engine, you may have noticed two small circles inscribed on the front face of the bellhousing directly opposite the starter's mounting bolts . . . when tightened fully, those bolts protrude about .005" past the engine's bellhousing mounting surface.

Not if you install the new washers as specified in the revised FSM.

Harold

[West Coast GT]

Originally Posted by grslightng02 ...There is a car show on Saturday 30th about 2 miles from my house I'd love to debut my car in.

What show is that? What are the times and where is it?