smoke and sparks from alternator

jayhawkjesse33 · 07-13-2009

This past weekend, I replaced my old 1.9 with a 2.2. I was having a vacuum issue, and after fixing it tonight, I went to take the car for a spin to see if it worked. As I started the car, there was a slight delay with the radio coming on. Then I had a rough idle, so I gave it some gas and it got better. I put it in to gear and started to back out. I heard a noise coming from the engine bay, so I put the car back in park and when I looked up I saw white smoke coming out from under the hood. I turned the car off and opened it up to find a a lot of white smoke and a burnt rubber smell. After looking around and feeling around, I noticed that one of my plastic wire covers felt warm. So I removed it with a few others just for good measure. I couldn't find any damage at this point...so I reached in and turned the key, no power until I hit the ignition and then turned the motor over again to see if I could see anything, and sure enough, the wire coming from the alternator was sparking. It was about 4 or 5 inches off of the bolt connection...where the previous owner had spliced in a 18 or maybe 20 gauge wire from the original thick wire to the connection point on the alternator. I could see bare wire and the wire was coming out of the insulation and tape they had used. So I wanted to see what I was dealing with. I cut that wire off and spliced in a 10 gauge wire and a new connection to the alternator. Turned the key, but no power in the car. I hit the ignition again and looked in the engine bay, it started but wouldn't stay started. So I did it again and saw sparks coming out of the alternator. So needless to say, my alternator seems to be fried. I am gonna take it down to the shop tomorrow to see if it can be rebult. Otherwise its an overnight order from OGTS so I can get the car running to see if I've fixed my vacuum issue with the transmission and to get the car to its appointment at the exhaust shop on Thursday.

I wouldn't mind replaced that red wire, especially since its probably fried as well, but when looking at the fuse panel there seems to be a lot of red wires and I'm not sure which one to replace. Any help on that one??

hrcollinsjr · 07-13-2009

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33

It was about 4 or 5 inches off of the bolt connection...where the previous owner had spliced in a 18 or maybe 20 gauge wire from the original thick wire to the connection point on the alternator. Any help on that one??

You may be referring to the fusible link. It is a lighter gauge wire that serves as a fuse. It is there to protect the rest of the circuit from overload.

Harold

jayhawkjesse33 · 07-13-2009

If there was a fuse there, then it was the worlds smallest fuse. Because I unwrapped the tape from around that wire and the connection and its just 2 separate wires spliced together...and like I said, the one was substantially smaller gauge than what heads toward the fuse panel in the car...which I have no clue where the wire ends up at in there. there's about 8 or 9 different red wires...its nuts in there!

neuropel · 07-14-2009

Just to clarify, the fusible link is a wire that is designed to act like a fuse to protect the rest of the electrical system. Go to page 11 of the document below for a good explanation:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/hweb1.pdf

Todd

hrcollinsjr · 07-14-2009

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr

You may be referring to the fusible link. It is a lighter gauge wire that serves as a fuse. It is there to protect the rest of the circuit from overload. Harold

There isn't supposed to be a fuse there. If you have a wiring diagram check it out. If you'll do a search for fusible link you may get additional info.

Harold

jayhawkjesse33 · 07-14-2009

Well, thanks for that post...I just learned something! Its very possible thats what it was though. Now if thats the case and it melted to prevent a problem with an overload situation...the question then becomes what caused the overload?!? I still say that its the alternator...I mean, it has sparks coming out of the back of it when I hit the ignition! Thats definitely not normal or good....

Dennis Texas · 07-14-2009

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33

If there was a fuse there, then it was the worlds smallest fuse. Because I unwrapped the tape from around that wire and the connection and its just 2 separate wires spliced together...and like I said, the one was substantially smaller gauge than what heads toward the fuse panel in the car...which I have no clue where the wire ends up at in there. there's about 8 or 9 different red wires...its nuts in there!

the fusibel link like Harold suggested is just that, it is a smaller guage wire connecting the output of the altermnator to the power circuit of the vehicle when it encounters a massive short or surge the wire is designed to go up in smoke as opposed to the wiring harness. It sounds as if it did it's job and hopefully your car wiring was spared the overload.

kwilford · 07-14-2009

Originally Posted by Dennis Texas

It sounds as if it did it's job and hopefully your car wiring was spared the overload.

Well, it sounds like it did its job, before it was terminated

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33

.... I cut that wire off and spliced in a 10 gauge wire and a new connection to the alternator. Turned the key, but no power in the car. I hit the ignition again and looked in the engine bay, it started but wouldn't stay started. So I did it again and saw sparks coming out of the alternator.

Oh oh, that would be a BAD thing to do

A fusible link can't "fuse" when it is replaced with a THICKER piece of wire!

RallyBob · 07-14-2009

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33

Well, thanks for that post...I just learned something! Its very possible thats what it was though. Now if thats the case and it melted to prevent a problem with an overload situation...the question then becomes what caused the overload?!? I still say that its the alternator...I mean, it has sparks coming out of the back of it when I hit the ignition! Thats definitely not normal or good....

Did you remember to re-install the ground wire from between the alternator case and the engine block? Just a thought, I've seen them get left off when an engine swap occurs.

hrcollinsjr · 07-14-2009

By all means have your alternator tested. I'm wondering if the brushes are gone and that is what's causing the sparking.

Harold

jayhawkjesse33 · 07-14-2009

So I took my alternator to a shop today and their initial reaction is that I had/have something wired wrong. I said that I was able to drive the car prior to this and that I didn't have anything wrong. But now I'm self-conscious about it...and if I maybe do/did have something wired wrong. From the battery, I just had the cable from the positive post to the solenoid. I also have 2 other connections on that bolt connection as well, but not sure what those are for. From the alternator, I just had the ground wire from the alternator to the engine block and the wire from the bolt closest to the engine block that heads in to the fuse panel.

I am curious as to how the battery gets it charge back? That question has me wondering if I have something hooked up wrong. And I'm pretty sure that I burnt up another wire from the solenoid to the fuse panel...and thats simply based on a conversation with Dennis from OGTS, since I don't have any power to the interior when the key is in the 'ON' position. (I do have a push button start by the way). Any other thoughts or suggestions??

jayhawkjesse33 · 07-14-2009

So I just got done checking out the wiring...and one of the wires from the starter is completely gone! It had a fuseable link in it as well, and it was totally burned out...so I put a new one in there and a new one for the red wire from the alternator. I also checked out the voltage regulator and on of the 3 wires that goes in to the alternator is broke in two near the connector and all 3 of the wires seem to be really old and crunchy. So I think I figured out the problem. I am headed to get a new voltage regulator as we speak. I don't have the alternator back yet, but I went ahead and turned the key ON and I have power to the interior and when I tried to start it, it actually fired up! But the AMP guage was in the negative...which I think would be normal since the alternator and voltage regulator aren't hooked up. Would this be fair to assume??

Dennis Texas · 07-14-2009

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33

But the AMP guage was in the negative...which I think would be normal since the alternator and voltage regulator aren't hooked up. Would this be fair to assume??

Gauge shows the balance of current in the system by going negative it means your using more from your reserve (battery) then the system is supplying thats all sounds normal with no alternator to me.

Redskinsjbs · 07-15-2009

How much is the new regulator unit? I ask because for ~$40 in parts you can get a 105amp+ alternator that is a near bolt in (I am speaking of the CS-130 unit)

Aardvaark · 07-15-2009

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs

How much is the new regulator unit? I ask because for ~$40 in parts you can get a 105amp+ alternator that is a near bolt in (I am speaking of the CS-130 unit)

Jay. I was watching some of your VIMEO videos and was suddenly thwarted
on #43 and 44 when the requirement to watch was changed from Flash 9.0
to Flash 10.0. My 'puter can't be upgraded to 10.0.

Do you have any control using VIMEO on which Flash release you can use? Just wondering if anything can be done. Thanks.

Redskinsjbs · 07-15-2009

Originally Posted by Aardvaark

Jay. I was watching some of your VIMEO videos and was suddenly thwarted
on #43 and 44 when the requirement to watch was changed from Flash 9.0
to Flash 10.0. My 'puter can't be upgraded to 10.0. Do you have any control using VIMEO on which Flash release you can use? Just wondering if anything can be done. Thanks.

There isn't anything that I can do about which flash version the Vimeo-ites use. However, I think that you can download the original file if you scroll to the bottom of the page and click the link on the right-hand side.

That does require you to download the entire file and play it after it has finished, but it may be worth it!!

Aardvaark · 07-15-2009

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs

There isn't anything that I can do about which flash version the Vimeo-ites use. However, I think that you can download the original file if you scroll to the bottom of the page and click the link on the right-hand side. That does require you to download the entire file and play it after it has finished, but it may be worth it!!

I'll try that and hope I've got space. Btw. Did you video your GM alternator install? That is what I'm most curious about if you did. I've read the threads others have posted, but a video is worth a thousand pictures.

Thanks.

Redskinsjbs · 07-15-2009

Originally Posted by Aardvaark

I'll try that and hope I've got space. Btw. Did you video your GM alternator install? That is what I'm most curious about if you did. I've read the threads others have posted, but a video is worth a thousand pictures.
Thanks.

So far I haven't put one together, but it is on the to-do list! I'll get to it ASAP

Aardvaark · 07-15-2009

It worked downloading and then watching using other players.
I didn't notice that option before.

Thanks again.

jayhawkjesse33 · 07-15-2009

So I got the alternator back today ad it had a bolt come loose on the inside of it. The voltage regulator I got, didn't match up to what i had, so I just used new wires from the alternator to the voltage regulator. With that being said, I have the 3 wires goin in to the voltage regulator, and one of the 3 (red wire) is spliced together with a blue wire with white stripes that goes to the fuse panel...what is that wire for?? Put everything back together and started it up...but the 'idiot light' is still on in the AMP meter...its showing a (-) draw...is it just because the battery was used when the alternator wasn't on? Or is something still messed up? I'd like to get it taken care of so I don't have the car die on my when I'm driving it to the trans shop tomorrow and the exhaust shop on Friday.

Redskinsjbs · 07-15-2009

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33

So I got the alternator back today ad it had a bolt come loose on the inside of it. The voltage regulator I got, didn't match up to what i had, so I just used new wires from the alternator to the voltage regulator. With that being said, I have the 3 wires goin in to the voltage regulator, and one of the 3 (red wire) is spliced together with a blue wire with white stripes that goes to the fuse panel...what is that wire for?? Put everything back together and started it up...but the 'idiot light' is still on in the AMP meter...its showing a (-) draw...is it just because the battery was used when the alternator wasn't on? Or is something still messed up? I'd like to get it taken care of so I don't have the car die on my when I'm driving it to the trans shop tomorrow and the exhaust shop on Friday.

This wire is the 'activator' wire for the alternator. It is essentially what tells the alternator that it is safe to make electricity.

jayhawkjesse33 · 07-16-2009

so does that blue and white striped wire have a fuseable link as well? dumb question, but with only 1 cable comin from the positive side of the battery (to the soleniod) how does the battery get its charge?

First opel 1981 · 07-16-2009

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33

so does that blue and white striped wire have a fuseable link as well? dumb question, but with only 1 cable comin from the positive side of the battery (to the soleniod) how does the battery get its charge?

The blue and white wire should have a fusible link near the alternator (if wired properly).
The battery gets its charge through a thick red wire that goes between the alternator and the fuse block to change into a red/white wire that goes to the amp guage on the dash.

jayhawkjesse33 · 07-16-2009

okay, thats what i thought about the red wire. and i am guessin that the fuseable link in the blue wire is shot-g thus the lack of charge and the guage showin a negative amp reading. but that blue wire has always been connected w another wire in the voltage regulator...is this wrong??

First opel 1981 · 07-16-2009

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33

okay, thats what i thought about the red wire. and i am guessin that the fuseable link in the blue wire is shot-g thus the lack of charge and the guage showin a negative amp reading. but that blue wire has always been connected w another wire in the voltage regulator...is this wrong??

Yes, it's connected with a red wire into the voltage regulator.

07-13-2009	#1 (permalink)
jayhawkjesse33 Opeler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Terre Haute, Indiana Posts: 134	Unanswered: smoke and sparks from alternator This past weekend, I replaced my old 1.9 with a 2.2. I was having a vacuum issue, and after fixing it tonight, I went to take the car for a spin to see if it worked. As I started the car, there was a slight delay with the radio coming on. Then I had a rough idle, so I gave it some gas and it got better. I put it in to gear and started to back out. I heard a noise coming from the engine bay, so I put the car back in park and when I looked up I saw white smoke coming out from under the hood. I turned the car off and opened it up to find a a lot of white smoke and a burnt rubber smell. After looking around and feeling around, I noticed that one of my plastic wire covers felt warm. So I removed it with a few others just for good measure. I couldn't find any damage at this point...so I reached in and turned the key, no power until I hit the ignition and then turned the motor over again to see if I could see anything, and sure enough, the wire coming from the alternator was sparking. It was about 4 or 5 inches off of the bolt connection...where the previous owner had spliced in a 18 or maybe 20 gauge wire from the original thick wire to the connection point on the alternator. I could see bare wire and the wire was coming out of the insulation and tape they had used. So I wanted to see what I was dealing with. I cut that wire off and spliced in a 10 gauge wire and a new connection to the alternator. Turned the key, but no power in the car. I hit the ignition again and looked in the engine bay, it started but wouldn't stay started. So I did it again and saw sparks coming out of the alternator. So needless to say, my alternator seems to be fried. I am gonna take it down to the shop tomorrow to see if it can be rebult. Otherwise its an overnight order from OGTS so I can get the car running to see if I've fixed my vacuum issue with the transmission and to get the car to its appointment at the exhaust shop on Thursday. I wouldn't mind replaced that red wire, especially since its probably fried as well, but when looking at the fuse panel there seems to be a lot of red wires and I'm not sure which one to replace. Any help on that one??

07-14-2009	#4 (permalink)
neuropel Rice Cooker Join Date: May 2002 Location: Spring Church, PA Posts: 1,787	Just to clarify, the fusible link is a wire that is designed to act like a fuse to protect the rest of the electrical system. Go to page 11 of the document below for a good explanation: http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/hweb1.pdf Todd __________________ "In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -Abraham Lincoln ________________ 1972 GT 2.4L 1974 Manta GT/E 2.2L 1973 Manta Rallye 2.5L

07-15-2009	#14 (permalink)
Redskinsjbs Opel Intern Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Washington DC Posts: 513 Logbook Entries: 1 Real Name: Jay Provided Answers: 3	How much is the new regulator unit? I ask because for ~$40 in parts you can get a 105amp+ alternator that is a near bolt in (I am speaking of the CS-130 unit) __________________ J Swift Sincerely Flickr photos Videos

07-15-2009	#19 (permalink)
Aardvaark UFO pel abductee. Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 2,240 Real Name: Mark Paar (not Parr) Provided Answers: 5	It worked downloading and then watching using other players. I didn't notice that option before. Thanks again. __________________ -Mark '75 Manta Direct link to my album of Opel related parts catalogs and magazine articles for reference: http://www.opelgt.com/photopost/show...ser/23031/sl/a

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07-13-2009	#3 (permalink)
jayhawkjesse33 Opeler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Terre Haute, Indiana Posts: 134	If there was a fuse there, then it was the worlds smallest fuse. Because I unwrapped the tape from around that wire and the connection and its just 2 separate wires spliced together...and like I said, the one was substantially smaller gauge than what heads toward the fuse panel in the car...which I have no clue where the wire ends up at in there. there's about 8 or 9 different red wires...its nuts in there!

07-14-2009	#6 (permalink)
jayhawkjesse33 Opeler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Terre Haute, Indiana Posts: 134	Well, thanks for that post...I just learned something! Its very possible thats what it was though. Now if thats the case and it melted to prevent a problem with an overload situation...the question then becomes what caused the overload?!? I still say that its the alternator...I mean, it has sparks coming out of the back of it when I hit the ignition! Thats definitely not normal or good....

07-14-2009	#10 (permalink)
hrcollinsjr 2200 Post Club Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chapel Hill, TN Posts: 2,266 Real Name: Harold Collins Provided Answers: 14	By all means have your alternator tested. I'm wondering if the brushes are gone and that is what's causing the sparking. Harold

07-14-2009	#11 (permalink)
jayhawkjesse33 Opeler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Terre Haute, Indiana Posts: 134	So I took my alternator to a shop today and their initial reaction is that I had/have something wired wrong. I said that I was able to drive the car prior to this and that I didn't have anything wrong. But now I'm self-conscious about it...and if I maybe do/did have something wired wrong. From the battery, I just had the cable from the positive post to the solenoid. I also have 2 other connections on that bolt connection as well, but not sure what those are for. From the alternator, I just had the ground wire from the alternator to the engine block and the wire from the bolt closest to the engine block that heads in to the fuse panel. I am curious as to how the battery gets it charge back? That question has me wondering if I have something hooked up wrong. And I'm pretty sure that I burnt up another wire from the solenoid to the fuse panel...and thats simply based on a conversation with Dennis from OGTS, since I don't have any power to the interior when the key is in the 'ON' position. (I do have a push button start by the way). Any other thoughts or suggestions??

07-14-2009	#12 (permalink)
jayhawkjesse33 Opeler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Terre Haute, Indiana Posts: 134	So I just got done checking out the wiring...and one of the wires from the starter is completely gone! It had a fuseable link in it as well, and it was totally burned out...so I put a new one in there and a new one for the red wire from the alternator. I also checked out the voltage regulator and on of the 3 wires that goes in to the alternator is broke in two near the connector and all 3 of the wires seem to be really old and crunchy. So I think I figured out the problem. I am headed to get a new voltage regulator as we speak. I don't have the alternator back yet, but I went ahead and turned the key ON and I have power to the interior and when I tried to start it, it actually fired up! But the AMP guage was in the negative...which I think would be normal since the alternator and voltage regulator aren't hooked up. Would this be fair to assume??

07-15-2009	#20 (permalink)
jayhawkjesse33 Opeler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Terre Haute, Indiana Posts: 134	So I got the alternator back today ad it had a bolt come loose on the inside of it. The voltage regulator I got, didn't match up to what i had, so I just used new wires from the alternator to the voltage regulator. With that being said, I have the 3 wires goin in to the voltage regulator, and one of the 3 (red wire) is spliced together with a blue wire with white stripes that goes to the fuse panel...what is that wire for?? Put everything back together and started it up...but the 'idiot light' is still on in the AMP meter...its showing a (-) draw...is it just because the battery was used when the alternator wasn't on? Or is something still messed up? I'd like to get it taken care of so I don't have the car die on my when I'm driving it to the trans shop tomorrow and the exhaust shop on Friday.

07-16-2009	#22 (permalink)
jayhawkjesse33 Opeler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Terre Haute, Indiana Posts: 134	so does that blue and white striped wire have a fuseable link as well? dumb question, but with only 1 cable comin from the positive side of the battery (to the soleniod) how does the battery get its charge?

07-16-2009	#24 (permalink)
jayhawkjesse33 Opeler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Terre Haute, Indiana Posts: 134	okay, thats what i thought about the red wire. and i am guessin that the fuseable link in the blue wire is shot-g thus the lack of charge and the guage showin a negative amp reading. but that blue wire has always been connected w another wire in the voltage regulator...is this wrong??

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