New starter Shimming ?
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Thread: New starter Shimming ?

  1. #1
    1000 Post Club My location Dale .D's Avatar
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    New starter Shimming ?

    On going new OGTS intermittant starting Issues. This has been going on for years now. On my second new starter . Now & then the bendex won't engage it just goes click. This is what I've done to date. New ignition switch, new otto-start relay. Second new starter. Eliminated all possible ground issues , installed push button bypass switch from to starter. Biggest baddest battery new, Battery is installed in the back tray where the spare tire was and has very thick cables going all the way to the front, . 105 amp GM alternator. Pretty sure nothing is wrong with the starter. I'm thinking now maybe the starter is off just a bit. Any advise how to possible shim to make it perfect. This issue has never left me stranded yet but just want to figure this out. After all this it should just engage all the time . Hate having to try 4-5 time for it to engage. . I know this new starter requires more power than the stock one but I've eliminated any electrical issues I think. So now I'm thinking allignment . Any advice out there anyone ? Maybe someone else has had this problem.

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  3. #2
    Can Opeler Knorm65's Avatar
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    Yes I've had this problem from day one with my ogts starter. My issue seems to be my resistor wire going bad though. When I unplug the resistor wire and positive from the starter to coil the starter turns fine and never clicks.
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    When you say that "...it just clicks" this sounds like a defective starter solenoid, the item that sits on top of the starter. Having never purchased a starter for the Opel myself, you would have to tell me if the new starter comes with a new solenoid attached, or if you have to use your old solenoid. My guess is the former, as none of the parts suppliers seem to sell solenoids separate from the starter and starter pictures all have the solenoid attached. Either way, it sounds as though the large contact piece within the solenoid has a dead spot on it.

    When you turn the key to "Start", you activate an electromagnet inside the solenoid. This causes a magnetic plunger to move -- the plunger has attached a large copper contact that is then pressed against the contacts for the battery and the starter motor itself, causing a very large current draw (thus necessitating the solenoid in the circuit, as that kind of a draw would quickly burn out smaller switches. That large copper contact on the plunger often develops burn marks from the high current draw that become insulators instead of conductors. You will hear the "click" as the plunger moves and comes into contact with the starter/battery contacts, but no current will draw because of the burns.

    I apologize if I am telling you something you already know and have explored.
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    Member My location guyopel's Avatar
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    Here are photos of the solenoid after it was cut apart, showing problem areas. HTH
    John
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    markandson and wrench459 like this.
    Guyopel
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    ---Thomas Edison
    It's amazing what God lets man get away with when lightning is so cheap. Mark Twain

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    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Without a proper block to body grounding strap you will get intermittent starter engagement issues.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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    Quote Originally Posted by opelspyder View Post
    I recently have had some issues with the new starters, some have required shimming.
    Also make sure the surface the starter bolts into is good bare metal for grounding purposes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    A little late but I used the two washers from the starter bolts.
    Just put them between the starter and bell housing and the noise went away.
    I didn't compare it when I swapped it out and sent it back to Ohio.

    BTW, I have one in my GT. It did not need any shimming.
    Related Discussions:
    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/6a-engi...tml#post591218
    Shimming a starter on a 1.9?
    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/chargin...tml#post284905
    Stock Starter vs OGTS Starter

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    1000 Post Club My location Dale .D's Avatar
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    Great possibilities guys . Keep it coming

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    Opel Key Master My location opelspyder's Avatar
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    I have had two of these starters go bad after little use. I sent one back recently. Shimming is not the solution, and grounds are not the issue either, but it seems quality is the issue. The new starters seem to take a lot of juice when cranking over too, and if you start getting battery drain problems where you are engaging the starter a lot in a short period, it will kill them. I had two go down in the Yellow Blaze car when I decided to use an original 2.4 starter and it has not been an issue since.
    Check out our Opel restorations at
    www.newvintageauto.com

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    Member My location guyopel's Avatar
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    The battery drain was one of the problems ( I found solder drips that could case a dead battery after app. 3-4 days) I think the problem is in the solenoid.
    Keith is correct that grounding is not the problem (On the starter that I was checking it had a ground cable from the battery to the starter).
    John
    Guyopel
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    Here I will write again.
    Allways I have problems with the stock starter in first years, special after the winter nap!
    Install greater batterie and alternator.
    But the stock starter would make only a klick noise,when my Automatic Trans GT stay longer.
    Then I buy a oem 3.0 24V Cih starter! Since I have no problems at all!

    Norbert

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    3000 Post Club My location m610's Avatar
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    Different failure mode here.

    Starters go bad on us on a regular basis, and it was never the solenoid. I believe it was heat. After pit stops, for example, with a hot engine that had been running hot for 2 hours, the starter was too weak to crank. Fortunately the car push starts easily, and given more time to cool it would crank again. Then once, after cam run-in, the starter would no longer crank the motor. I thought maybe the motor had seized. I took it out the starter and clamped it to a bench and ran it. Then I compared it to another starter and the first was really weak in comparison. I had been good an hour earlier, and it was cooler now. he damage seemed to be permanent.

    The OGTS starter has worked flawlessly for us for the past year or so. Well, until the last race when we were back to push starting the car. I thought our heat problems had been solved. I guess not. Gil replaced it. I'll see if we can cook this one, too.

    My starter on the Tahoe lasts a little over a year before heat kills it. It is located near the exhaust and the wimpy heat shield doesn't seem to help much.

    The starter on the Opel is on the "cool" side of the engine. Go figure.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorm65 View Post
    Yes I've had this problem from day one with my ogts starter. My issue seems to be my resistor wire going bad though. When I unplug the resistor wire and positive from the starter to coil the starter turns fine and never clicks.
    I don't think knorm65 has a problem with the resistor wire. The purpose of the resistor wire is to present a lower voltage (~9V) to the coil while the engine is running. The reason that the coil is also connected to the solenoid is so that it gets a full 12V when starting (from the solenoid). If the resistor wire was going bad, the engine wouldn't run once started. The coil is probably OK too, if the engine runs. It would appear that the additional load from the coil is enough to stop the solenoid from engaging properly. I'd measure the voltage of the red/black wire at the solenoid when starting (should be a solid 12V). If you haven't already, I'd recommend installing a relay driven by the ignition switch (OttoStart).

    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/opel-ti...tml#post149731

  15. #13
    7,000 Post Club My location wrench459's Avatar
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    For a point of reference here is a stock solenoid Amp draw....just the solenoid mind you!



    Dang you can see in the waveform the engine turning over.

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war"

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