Distributor Wires???

[Ray Morley]

This may seem like a silly posting but I was reading some of the archived threads on this subject and became totally confused with stuff like........the #1 wire is actually the #4 and the front is actually the back etc.

I have attached a pic of my current wire setup and I have the front (I assume is #1) connected to the upper left of the distrib. The manual shows it this way too. The car runs grea

If this is the correct setup, when I do the timing do I attach the lead to the #1 wire (the shortest one)?

If I have the wires on incorrect please let me know.

Thanks, Ray

[BQS4]

Ray;
It's just the way the motor was assembled as to where #1 is. There is a misprint in the manuals as to the timing marks when assembling a 1.9 and if followed to the letter, the dist will be 180 degrees out, which you then swap the wires to the position you have and it works. It'll still time just the same.

[Ray Morley]

Hi Gene:

I would then assume my distrib is installed correctly and the wires are in the correct place and when I time it I will hook up the timing light to #1 wire and the timing ball/mark will be in the correct orientation.

This makes sense...............and I will let you know how it turns out.

ps...........m/o on the way today for you.....

[ungermm]

Ray, Now you got me scratching my head. My 70GT with a 1.9 is set up differently. I have #1 on the distributer as the top right plug (compared to your #1 as being top left) and that's were my timing mark is on the distributer top (next to the vacuum adv.). Then clockwise #3, #2, and #4. Maybe different vehicles and/or different years have a different setups. Maybe someone can clarify this. Jerry

[Ray Morley]

When I refer to the Black covered 1970 OPEL Kadett & GT Service Manual and look at the wiring diagram for the 70 Kadett Rallye it has the wiring setup pictured just like I have it in my car.

My guess is that if its wired incorrectly then when I did the timing and put the timing wire on #1 lead I would not see the timing ball on the flywheel. Is that correct?

[namba209]

Ray, the Opel engines have what I call a 180 degree crank. That is, two pistons will be at top dead center (TDC) and the other two will be at bottom dead center (BDC), with the firing order being 1-3-4-2 both 1 and 4 pistons are at TDC and pistons 2 and 3 wil be at BDC. So whether you put the timing lite on either plug wire 1 or 4, the ball and pointer will line up and be visible if the timing is correct. HTH.

[hallgeir]

Originally Posted by ungermm Ray, Now you got me scratching my head. My 70GT with a 1.9 is set up differently. I have #1 on the distributer as the top right plug (compared to your #1 as being top left) and that's were my timing mark is on the distributer top (next to the vacuum adv.). Then clockwise #3, #2, and #4. Maybe different vehicles and/or different years have a different setups. Maybe someone can clarify this. Jerry

To add one more reason for head scratching, here is how mine is set up. The firing order should be 1 3 4 2, so it seems your #2 and #4 are wrong.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by BQS4 Ray; It's just the way the motor was assembled as to where #1 is. There is a misprint in the manuals as to the timing marks when assembling a 1.9 and if followed to the letter, the dist will be 180 degrees out, which you then swap the wires to the position you have and it works. It'll still time just the same.

Basics: there's only ONE way that a CIH long block (head and block) can be assembled!



The misprint Gene refers to is in the timing pictures used in the manuals (crank key is shown at 6 o'clock, s/b 12 o'clock), which I corrected in my pic above, and not in the actual text.

As to the reason for engine assembly with both crank key and cam dowel in the 12 o'clock position and ignition timing for the #4 cylinder, the slots in the cam for plug-side head bolt installation are vertical only in this position . . . any other cam position does not have clearance to install plug-side head bolts!

Originally Posted by Ray Morley This may seem like . . . I have attached a pic of my current wire setup and I have the front (I assume is #1) connected to the upper left of the distrib. The manual shows it this way too. The car runs great If this is the correct setup, when I do the timing do I attach the lead to the #1 wire (the shortest one)? . . .

First, distributor rotor rotation is CW. Your picture shows the #1 cylinder wire at 10 o'clock and this is typically the one used for timing . . . you could also use #4 (4 o'clock), as mentioned by namba209 earlier. As shown in your pic, if you remove the disti cap, you'll see a timing mark on the base of the distributor at 4 o'clock . . . 180 deg out from where your #1 wire is.

Explanation: at some point in its past history the disti was removed and when PO reinstalled it, he "timed" the engine (cam to crank) following the manual and inserted the disti with rotor pointing to the disti timing mark (#1 cyl) . . . 180 degs out! Rather than rotating engine one revolution and reinstalling disti with rotor at disti timing mark, he rotated the igniton wires 180 degs CW on the cap . . . same result!

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by hallgeir To add one more reason for head scratching, here is how mine is set up. The firing order should be 1 3 4 2, so it seems your #2 and #4 are wrong.

Nope, it's correct . . . disti rotation is CW! Quick check: Pairs #1-#4 and #2-#3 should always be across (180 degs) from each other on disti cap.

[tekenaar]

One more thing, straight from the FSM:

Page 6A-25:

8. Install cylinder head.

After sprocket has been attached to camshaft, check alignment to see that chain has not slipped. At this time both No.1 and No.4 pistons will be at TDC position. No.4 piston will be in firing position and No.1 piston up on exhaust stroke. To time the engine to fire on No.1 cylinder, rotate crankshaft 360 degrees. . . .

Nuff said!

[hallgeir]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Nope, it's correct . . . disti rotation is CW! Quick check: Pairs #1-#4 and #2-#3 should always be across (180 degs) from each other on disti cap.

Otto, correct me if I`m wrong, but, as I understand Jerry`s post, the firing order will be 1-3-2-4, instead of the correct 1-3-4-2. What I meant is that his #2 and #4 cylinder ignition wires should switch places. Am I right, or am I missing something here?

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by hallgeir To add one more reason for head scratching, here is how mine is set up. The firing order should be 1 3 4 2, so it seems your #2 and #4 are wrong.

Noticed your unusual (for us anyway) electronic trigger (Hall effect?) inside your distributor in the first, "cap-off" picture and your block heater mounted in the side of the block . . . ah, memories of my youth in Michigan, many years ago.

[hallgeir]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Noticed your unusual (for us anyway) electronic trigger (Hall effect?) inside your distributor in the first, "cap-off" picture and your block heater mounted in the side of the block . . . ah, memories of my youth in Michigan, many years ago.

Yes, it has been installed a Bosch electronic ignition with Hall effect some time in the past years. Some PO must have done it. It`s exactly the same system as I installed in my 1972 Ascona, back in 1980. Block heater, yes, this morning the temp was 3 degrees C (37,4 F), so the summer is definitely over for this year.

[ungermm]

Originally Posted by ungermm Ray, Now you got me scratching my head. My 70GT with a 1.9 is set up differently. I have #1 on the distributer as the top right plug (compared to your #1 as being top left) and that's were my timing mark is on the distributer top (next to the vacuum adv.). Then clockwise #3, #2, and #4. Maybe different vehicles and/or different years have a different setups. Maybe someone can clarify this. Jerry

Oops, I mistyped, #2 should be #4, fire order should be 1, 3, 4, 2. Thanks Hallgeir. However, I just rechecked my distributor top and noticed that there is a mark on both sides of the timing advance vacuum. So, I'm confused, because whereas I have #1 on the top right, and Hallgeir has #1 on the bottom right, and Ray has his at top left. So, right now I'm working on checking things. I think I put a mark on the upper right of the distributor top to mark the position of the rotor when pulled out. The marks look a little different and #1 doesn't seem to line up right with that mark now. I think I might have put the distributor in 90 degrees off and just compensated by putting the wires on 90 degrees off. It runs fine the way it is, but, I will work on it today and check the postings for ideas. I might also be 1 tooth off the timing mark on the cam sprocket. I asked this question in another post, but, I'll ask again. With #1 piston at TDC, where will the timing mark be on the cam sprocket? If you look at the lifters and follow them, there is a pointy thing behind the cam sprocket, where should the timing dimple be in reference to this at #1 piston TDC? It's hard for me and my bad eyes to time it like the book says with #4 because the mark wiould then be down at 7 o'clock and down in the head. Very many Thanks, Jerry

[hallgeir]

Originally Posted by ungermm Oops, I mistyped, #2 should be #4, fire order should be 1, 3, 4, 2. Thanks Hallgeir. However, I just rechecked my distributor top and noticed that there is a mark on both sides of the timing advance vacuum. So, I'm confused, because whereas I have #1 on the top right, and Hallgeir has #1 on the bottom right, and Ray has his at top left. So, right now I'm working on checking things. I think I put a mark on the upper right of the distributor top to mark the position of the rotor when pulled out. The marks look a little different and #1 doesn't seem to line up right with that mark now. I think I might have put the distributor in 90 degrees off and just compensated by putting the wires on 90 degrees off. It runs fine the way it is, but, I will work on it today and check the postings for ideas. I might also be 1 tooth off the timing mark on the cam sprocket. I asked this question in another post, but, I'll ask again. With #1 piston at TDC, where will the timing mark be on the cam sprocket? If you look at the lifters and follow them, there is a pointy thing behind the cam sprocket, where should the timing dimple be in reference to this at #1 piston TDC? It's hard for me and my bad eyes to time it like the book says with #4 because the mark wiould then be down at 7 o'clock and down in the head. Very many Thanks, Jerry

I will leave your #1 piston at TDC question to others with more knowledge than me, but I know for sure that all my 4-cyl CIH engines have been the same as the pic in post #7 shows (Ascona 1600S, 2xAscona 1900S and GT 1900S), so I thought that was the only way. And I have always thought that cyl #1 is in front (closest to the radiator).

[ungermm]

I asked the question about the timing dimple postition with #1 piston at TDC in another tread and MantaRallier wrote: "A cross pin on the chain lines up with the timing dimple. That particualar cross pin with the dimple beside it should be the second cross pin to the right of straight up, when viewed when looking at the front of the engine. If the chain is not stretched, then there will be a crosspin at 12 o'clock, and the one with the dimple should be 2 pins to the right. If the chain is stretched or the gears worn a lot, then this will be moved to the left a bit."

Can anyone confirm? My dimple is 3 pins to the right of the pointy thingy at the end of the row of lifters behind the cam sprocket. Because the engine is tilted, Where is straight up? Thanks, Jerry

[Ray Morley]

I sure opened up a 'can of worms' with my question and the answers were all appreciated. I checked my distrib and the timing mark is exactly at the 4pm position. At least with the way it was installed.........it runs.

Thats the problems one faces when they purchase vehicles that have had one or more owners. Things get changed or modified and it takes some time to sort it all out. I am not a mechanic by any means but I thought something seemed odd with the way my wires were set up.

Next question..........

When I do my timing how close should I have the timing light to the housing and what angle should the light be held at to get the best results?

[hallgeir]

Originally Posted by Ray Morley Next question.......... When I do my timing how close should I have the timing light to the housing and what angle should the light be held at to get the best results?

It doesn`t really matter how close the timing light is to the housing, and what angle it is held at, as long as it lights up the ball and mark at the flywheel good enough for you to see them clearly.

Also, from the Brooklands owners workshop manual:

"Stroboscopic timing:
With this method of timing do not let the engine exceed 700 rev/min or the centrifugal advance mechanism will start to operate. Disconnect and plug the vacuum lines or the ignition will be advanced."

Good luck.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by hallgeir I will leave your #1 piston at TDC question to others with more knowledge than me, but I know for sure that all my 4-cyl CIH engines have been the same as the pic in post #7 shows (Ascona 1600S, 2xAscona 1900S and GT 1900S), so I thought that was the only way. And I have always thought that cyl #1 is in front (closest to the radiator).

Though I've already answered this in my previous post, following the FSM for head-to-block installation (long block) will result in a correctly timed (cam to crank) engine with No.4 cylinder ignition timing. If you install the distributor with the rotor pointing at the disti timing mark, the ignition timing is 180 degrees off. The easiest way to correct this is to rotate the cap wires 180 degrees CW!! . . . but you'll end up with the disti wired like hallgeir's earlier post. This is operationally correct, even if it looks wrong according to most manual's pictures.

[Ray Morley]

Today I purchased my first timing light and and set out to time the beast.

I ensured the vacuum lines were properly capped and the idle set at 700 rpm. I had no problems seeing the small bead and pointer. The bead was below the pointer by quite a bit. I rotated the distrib until the bead and pointer were matched. Shut the car off, tightened down the distrib and restarted. All was fine.

It actually idles good at 700........better at 750 to 800. I also noticed that when I reved up the engine the vibration I was getting is gone.

Not bad for an amateur...........

I was so happy about the whole deal I took my wife out this afternoon and bought her a new pair of high heels.............

[Anonymous D]

Opel 1.9 liter eingine Tune-Up procedures,
described on 10 pages of Adobe Acrobat
downloads with main points illustrated,
are available FREE at www.opelclub.com

(select "Tech Tips" on left button, then select "Engine Tune-Up" section)

[ungermm]

Originally Posted by Anonymous D Opel 1.9 liter eingine Tune-Up procedures, described on 10 pages of Adobe Acrobat downloads with main points illustrated, are available FREE at www.opelclub.com (select "Tech Tips" on left button, then select "Engine Tune-Up" section)

Anonymous D, The link you've posted has got a lot of great info and nice diagrams/pics. I'm going over my timing again and setting it to those specs and what others have said to me or posted. Thanks, Jerry