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Thread: Electronic Ignition Systems

  1. #21
    Moderator My location jordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench459 View Post
    humm just thinking use a hot spark to trigger a MSD DIS module
    Programmable DIS-2, PN 6212
    humm how to locate number one cyl. firing
    I honestly would not use such a thing as that. I think it is far too much money for what you will gain. And as it seems versatile it is really quite limited, if you want to go to a distributorless set up with maybe a VR sensor I would use the ford edis set up with a kit project called megajolt. You can do a google search for it to get more information but basically it is the ignition control aspect of the megasquirt but without the efi part of it, I have not seen any pricing for it, but it would probably be around the $100 range and then you will really be in business for a lot less money for a really versatile set up.
    1970 Opel GT 1.9
    1980 Moto Guzzi V50
    2000 Saab 9-3 2.0 turbo
    2000 KTM 200 exc STOLEN

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobCGT View Post
    RTV= Room temperature vinyl

    many types for many uses.
    Nope RTV stands for Room Temperature Vulcanizing......

    I've won many a beer over this piece of trivia.......
    Paul

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    2000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Hot-Spark Electronic Ignition

    I am using Hot-Spark BOS4V1 electronic ignition and it works fine.
    Installation was smooth except that I had to use round rubber grommet where the wires were exiting the distributor. The one that comes with the ignition is square type. No more points, no condenser, clean installation.
    The primary circuit of my Accel ignition coil was bellow required 3 Ohms and Roy Robertson from the Hot-Spark recommended Bosch Blue coil.
    Here are some pics.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    QuestionOpel Resistor Wire Used

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    I am using Hot-Spark BOS4V1 electronic ignition and it works fine.
    Installation was smooth except that I had to use round rubber grommet where the wires were exiting the distributor. The one that comes with the ignition is square type. No more points, no condenser, clean installation.
    The primary circuit of my Accel ignition coil was bellow required 3 Ohms and Roy Robertson from the Hot-Spark recommended Bosch Blue coil.
    Here are some pics.
    Did you use (keep) Opel resistor wire?

    My distributor from 1972 GT (imported Dec 1971) used square hole in distributor. Kit should include round grommet, but (somewhat) easy to find round grommets.

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    2000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Electronic Ignition - Removing resistor wire?

    I kept the resistor wire. I am aware that some are replacing resistor wire with standard one in order to get higher voltage. This might be the way to go but I did not want to experiment.

  9. #27
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    Still using ignition points

    When I retaped wire harness assemblies in 1971 engine compartment, added extra wire routed with resistor wire. Have option to disconnect resistor wire and reconnect electronic ignition upgrade using standard wire. Wire tape on 1971 GT looks (mostly) original.

    I still have one extra set of Blue Streak ignition points to install if I decide to put off upgrade for another year!

  10. #28
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    QuestionYOUR coil + (15) connection

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    I am using Hot-Spark BOS4V1 electronic ignition and it works fine.
    Installation was smooth except that I had to use round rubber grommet where the wires were exiting the distributor. The one that comes with the ignition is square type. No more points, no condenser, clean installation.
    The primary circuit of my Accel ignition coil was bellow required 3 Ohms and Roy Robertson from the Hot-Spark recommended Bosch Blue coil.
    Here are some pics.
    Can't really make it out in your first pic, do you still have both stock wires connected to the + (plus, '15') side of your coil?

    If the resistance wire is still connected as the coil's main "run" source (stock hook-up), you'll only have ~9V there and that means the "Blue coil's" actual internal operating voltage is ~7V (after internal coil resistance)!


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

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    Senior Member gr_diver's Avatar
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    Otto, if you look close, the red one is connected to the (-) side (distributor side), and the black cable to the (+).

    The other black wire from the (-) side goes in the plastic wire loom...
    '78 Opel Ascona B 1.6SR
    ______________R.I.P.____________

  12. #30
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Questionwhich pics?

    Quote Originally Posted by gr_diver View Post
    Otto, if you look close, the red one is connected to the (-) side (distributor side), and the black cable to the (+).

    The other black wire from the (-) side goes in the plastic wire loom...
    . . . but I was asking P. J. Romano about his pictures in post #24 . . .


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

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    2000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Electronic Ignition - Removing resistor wire?

    Otto, I kept the original resistor wire. As I said few posts earlier, I did not want to experiment and fry something as I was not sure if the Hot Spark was made to take full 12V current. So, I decided to try with the resistor wire in place and to see how it will work. It worked fine, so I left it as is.
    Now when the question has been raised again, I will call Hot Spark on Monday and see what they say. I will post their answer.

  14. #32
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    ExclamationYou need a full 12V!

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    Otto, I kept the original resistor wire. As I said few posts earlier, I did not want to experiment and fry something as I was not sure if the Hot Spark was made to take full 12V current. So, I decided to try with the resistor wire in place and to see how it will work. It worked fine, so I left it as is.
    Now when the question has been raised again, I will call Hot Spark on Monday and see what they say. I will post their answer.
    I can answer that for you . . . correctly! Right now you're running both your Hot-Spark and Bosch Blue coil at ~9V "run" voltage and 12V only during starting of engine. Forget about the 12V "only during engine start", the ~9V "run" voltage is not the designed voltage for either the trigger or the "Blue" coil, an internal resistance coil.

    The trigger needs a full 12V all the time, trust me! Since the "Blue" coil is an internal resistance type, it is designed for full 12V at the plus (15) terminal, not the ~9V you're providing it from the resistance wire. Reason? . . . 9V at the plus terminal means it's actually operating at about 7V in the coil itself! . . . remember the internal resistance!!

    Best suggestion for what you have there already is to make up a new ~18" wire with female spade lugs at each end and connect it between the coil plus terminal (remove the clear resistor wire if necessary) and the fuse box terminal where the clear resistance wire is connected now, s/b extra lugs there, front of fuse box - 3rd terminal from pass side, if I recall.

    You do not have to remove either side of the resistance wire unless you need a blank terminal for the new 12V wire. The new 12V wire will merely bypass the resistance wire . . .
    Last edited by tekenaar; 07-08-2007 at 11:36 AM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  15. #33
    2000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Re: You need full 12V

    Thank you Otto for your explanation. I fully share your opinion but this is a copy of email received from Hot Spark yesterday:

    As long as it runs well, leave the resistor wire in place. It makes the coil and electronic ignition module run cooler. Some people install a ballast resistor on other vehicles to accomplish the same thing as the resistor wire on the Opel. The Hot-Spark module needs only about 9 volts to operate properly:

    Compatible Ignition Coils, Ballast Resistors, Hot-Spark Electronic Ignition

    Regards,
    Roy Robertson
    Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits for VW, Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, BMW, Volvo-Penta, Mercedes, Saab, Bosch


    That also explains why my ignition works well with the resistor wire in place. Based on Hot Spark information, it is a question of what is more important: Increased reliability of the system or increased performance.
    As always, it is a matter of finding what makes you happier...

  16. #34
    Senior Member gr_diver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    . . . but I was asking P. J. Romano about his pictures in post #24 . . .
    My bad, I hadn't understood your question correctly... I was referring to the electronic ignition black cable...

    '78 Opel Ascona B 1.6SR
    ______________R.I.P.____________

  17. #35
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    UnhappyIgnore Bosch and Pertronix!?

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    Thank you Otto for your explanation. I fully share your opinion but this is a copy of email received from Hot Spark yesterday:

    As long as it runs well, leave the resistor wire in place. It makes the coil and electronic ignition module run cooler. Some people install a ballast resistor on other vehicles to accomplish the same thing as the resistor wire on the Opel. The Hot-Spark module needs only about 9 volts to operate properly:

    Compatible Ignition Coils, Ballast Resistors, Hot-Spark Electronic Ignition

    Regards,
    Roy Robertson
    Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits for VW, Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, BMW, Volvo-Penta, Mercedes, Saab, Bosch


    That also explains why my ignition works well with the resistor wire in place. Based on Hot Spark information, it is a question of what is more important: Increased reliability of the system or increased performance.
    As always, it is a matter of finding what makes you happier...
    . . . but I'm saying you can achieve BOTH! . . . both are designed to operate at a full 12V! Operating them at 9V ONLY decreases "designed-in" performance and does NOT increase reliability one iota! Want to talk reliability, I've been using the same Perlux (original Pertronix name) unit since 1978 . . . at 12V, of course.



    Anyway, I think Bosch knows a bit more about electronics than anyone at Hot-Spark, certainly about their own products, wouldn't you agree?! The same goes for Pertronix . . . and let's not kid ourselves here, the Hot-Spark unit is NOTHING but a direct Pertronix copy!

    Up to you, your car . . . I'd ignore Hot-Spark's advice and "do what's right!"


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  18. #36
    Non Civilian My location opelwasp's Avatar
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    What kills electronic parts? Heat and cycling. So according to Hot Spark you avoid the heat, which is a non-issue. If an electronic ignition designed to operate at 12v doesn't, then why are they making it? Sounds like a "duh, we don't know, what you said sounds good" moment. Just because someone copies anothers patent doesn't mean they understand what they are building. I'll bet good money Hot Spark calls Pertronix techline all the time for questions about their product. And on the cycling issue you can't make less of those, car won't run right.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 07-08-2007 at 04:51 PM.
    Arguing online is the same as racing in the Special Olympics;
    no matter who wins, you're both still retarded.

    1971 GT (Opelwasp)
    1974 Manta A (Polizei)
    1973 Manta A (junker)
    1973 GT (junker)
    2001 Dodge Durango SLT 4x4
    2004 Dodge Neon SXT
    2002 Suzuki SV650S

  19. #37
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    Resistor wire connection w/ new ignition

    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    I can answer that for you . . . correctly! Right now you're running both your Hot-Spark and Bosch Blue coil at ~9V "run" voltage and 12V only during starting of engine. Forget about the 12V "only during engine start", the ~9V "run" voltage is not the designed voltage for either the trigger or the "Blue" coil, an internal resistance coil.

    The trigger needs a full 12V all the time, trust me! Since the "Blue" coil is an internal resistance type, it is designed for full 12V at the plus (15) terminal, not the ~9V you're providing it from the resistance wire. Reason? . . . 9V at the plus terminal means it's actually operating at about 7V in the coil itself! . . . remember the internal resistance!!

    Best suggestion for what you have there already is to make up a new ~18" wire with female spade lugs at each end and connect it between the coil plus terminal (remove the clear resistor wire if necessary) and the fuse box terminal where the clear resistance wire is connected now, s/b extra lugs there, front of fuse box - 3rd terminal from pass side, if I recall.

    You do not have to remove either side of the resistance wire unless you need a blank terminal for the new 12V wire. The new 12V wire will merely bypass the resistance wire . . .
    Read Otto's 12-Step Solution. New 18" Red wire connected to 3rd fuse will bypass the OEM resistor wire to supply 12V to ignition trigger. Why leave resistor wire connected to 3rd fuse, unless it is intended to supply ~9V to coil? If wire is not used, disconnect, apply electrical tape to connector, and move/ cable tie out of the way.

    Original Opel voltage regulator will barely supply 13.6V to system. When GT headlights are on, voltage at battery drops ~0.5V unless relays are installed. If Owner installs NEW GM alternator and eliminates OEM voltage regulator, battery voltage will increase to 14 - 15 volts. Will this increased voltage affect Petronix/ Hot spark trigger and coil, as system is NOW more than 12V?

  20. #38
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsay View Post
    Read Otto's 12-Step Solution. New 18" Red wire connected to 3rd fuse will bypass the OEM resistor wire to supply 12V to ignition trigger. Why leave resistor wire connected to 3rd fuse, unless it is intended to supply ~9V to coil? If wire is not used, disconnect, apply electrical tape to connector, and move/ cable tie out of the way.

    Original Opel voltage regulator will barely supply 13.6V to system. When GT headlights are on, voltage at battery drops ~0.5V unless relays are installed. If Owner installs NEW GM alternator and eliminates OEM voltage regulator, battery voltage will increase to 14 - 15 volts. Will this increased voltage affect Petronix/ Hot spark trigger and coil, as system is NOW more than 12V?
    12V is generic nomenclature . . . so NOPE, been running my original one (1978) with GM internally regulated 65A alternator which puts out a steady 14.6V . . .


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  21. #39
    Non Civilian My location opelwasp's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't under powering a circuit just as bad if not more damaging than overpowering one. I've heard that brown outs cause circuits to stress and fry when surging them just trips a relay or circuit breaker. So under voltaging the trigger may be very bad.

    Also don't recharge your battery with a Pertronix/Hot Spark unit connected. It will fry, cost me two units to learn this one. Prolonged exposure to battery charger is bad.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 05-25-2008 at 05:57 PM. Reason: spelling
    Arguing online is the same as racing in the Special Olympics;
    no matter who wins, you're both still retarded.

    1971 GT (Opelwasp)
    1974 Manta A (Polizei)
    1973 Manta A (junker)
    1973 GT (junker)
    2001 Dodge Durango SLT 4x4
    2004 Dodge Neon SXT
    2002 Suzuki SV650S

  22. #40
    former opel racer My location jeff denton's Avatar
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    When you're using a really good hi powered battery charger, notice your voltage may be up to sixteen volts.
    It seems to me the trigger is just an electronic switch, capable of opening and closing a circuit quicker and cleaner than a set of contact points. You'd think the lowest voltage it can do this at would be the coolest, most efficient way to go. The coil, on the other hand, likes more voltage to put out a bigger, hotter spark. And a heck of a lot more heat, especially at high RPMs.
    Our Ford race cars that run the electronic ignition with the big brain box have lots of ignition problems. A spare brain box is a hot item in the pits!
    Those that have converted to the Davis Unified Ignition system do not have any problems. Bingo. The DUI is the GM HEI on a Ford housing.
    That's how you make a Ford run.

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