Electronic Ignition Systems
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Thread: Electronic Ignition Systems

  1. #1
    tomking My location tomking's Avatar
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    Electronic Ignition Systems

    Hey! Anyone know of this electronic ignition system??
    Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits for VW, Volkswagen, Bosch
    I just saw them listed in the Opel section on ebay. I have not heard of them but much cheaper than Pertronix, even at Bugstuff Thanksgiving pricing of $49. Seem to be in Texas, so any Texas Opelers know of or use them?
    TMK

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    Electronic Ignition

    Hi Tom,

    That one is a new one on me. It has a striking similarity to the Pertronix, with the exception of the color. The mounting plate and accessory pieces are also almost identical. Could be a deal at the $39.95 price. I've never heard of the company until now.

    Dave

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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Thumbs upPertronix lookalike

    Quote Originally Posted by tomking View Post
    Hey! Anyone know of this electronic ignition system??
    Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits for VW, Volkswagen, Bosch
    I just saw them listed in the Opel section on ebay. I have not heard of them but much cheaper than Pertronix, even at Bugstuff Thanksgiving pricing of $49. Seem to be in Texas, so any Texas Opelers know of or use them?
    Looks identical to Pertronix, even the mounting brackets. They appear to use the same amplified (that's why it needs 12V) "Hall-Effect" trigger module and quad magnet distributor cam module as the Pertronix unit. Looks good to me!


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

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    Makes me wonder if the pertronics patent expired?

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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    QuestionPatent . . . License Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Acree View Post
    Makes me wonder if the pertronics patent expired?
    . . . or maybe signed a Licensing Agreement?


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

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    UngerDog ungermm's Avatar
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    Good find Tom, maybe I'll test it out if no one else has already. $39.95 plus $7 for shipping/handling. Worth a try. Jerry

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    meaningful on a Corvair..
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    It works swell.

    I bought this on eBay and installed it yesterday.

    Works swell, just like a Pertronix ignitor.

    Two issues: The grommet that closes the hole in the distributor is rectangular; my opening was round. Ended up cutting out the grommet and using some RTV to seal the hole. The two leads are too small to reach the coil on a Manta. I used the existing coil end and lengthened the negative wire and added a few inches to the positive lead and crimped on a connector.

    I've used the Pertronix setup in a whole bunch of other vehicles and this product is the same for a lot less money.

    10 minutes to install, including adjusting the wire lengths.

    Be sure to re-time your engine when done.

    One advantage over the Pertronix is that you can take the positive off the coil; for Pertronix, you need a full 12 volt source.

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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    QuestionTrigger positive source?

    Quote Originally Posted by ralf-who View Post
    I bought this on eBay and installed it yesterday.

    Works swell, just like a Pertronix ignitor.

    Two issues: The grommet that closes the hole in the distributor is rectangular; my opening was round. Ended up cutting out the grommet and using some RTV to seal the hole. The two leads are too small to reach the coil on a Manta. I used the existing coil end and lengthened the negative wire and added a few inches to the positive lead and crimped on a connector.

    I've used the Pertronix setup in a whole bunch of other vehicles and this product is the same for a lot less money.

    10 minutes to install, including adjusting the wire lengths.

    Be sure to re-time your engine when done.

    One advantage over the Pertronix is that you can take the positive off the coil; for Pertronix, you need a full 12 volt source.
    Could you copy a quote from the install instructions regarding the 12V source requirement or scan the entire instruction sheet and post it here please? Thanks.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  11. #9
    meaningful on a Corvair..
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    Their instructions...

    Better yet, here is the link that they reference in their instructions:

    Instructions - Installing the Hot-Spark Ignition in Bosch Distributors




    The Pertronix unit requires a pure 12v source, often NOT the + side of the coil.

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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    ExclamationHot-Spark 12V source

    Quote Originally Posted by ralf-who View Post
    Better yet, here is the link that they reference in their instructions:

    Instructions - Installing the Hot-Spark Ignition in Bosch Distributors

    The Pertronix unit requires a pure 12v source, often NOT the + side of the coil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Installing the Hot-Spark Electronic Ignition Conversion Kit in Bosch Distributors

    Please read all these instructions before installing the Hot-Spark Electronic Ignition Conversion Kit:

    DO NOT use an HEI-style coil.

    For four-cylinder engines, use a coil with resistance in the primary circuit of at least 3.0 ohms (Ω)

    The red wire connects to positive (+ or 15 on Bosch coil)

    The black wire connects to negative (- or 1 on Bosch coil)

    DO NOT reverse the polarity of these two wires - it could destroy the ignition module!

    This module is designed for 12V negative ground applications.
    Doesn't really answer the question of trigger 12V source . . . bear with me for a moment and I'll explain.

    First, noone says that the Pertronix won't work with the red wire connected to the + (15) side of the coil, it's just not "as designed" and results in a lower, less reliable trigger voltage when connected to an EXTERNAL resistance coil like the stock Opel hookup . . . ~9V at the coil plus side with the engine running and a full 12V there only during start.

    Second, the Hot-Spark instructions state, "use a coil with resistance in the primary circuit of at least 3.0 ohms (Ω)", but this fails to distinguish between internal and external resistance coils, each of which is designed with unique connection requirements to the 12V source! So far, the only difference is that Hot-Spark is vague (IMO) about trigger "plus" side sourcing while Pertronix is precise.

    Third, Hot-Spark emphatically states, "DO NOT use an HEI-type coil or a low-resistance coil with the Hot-Spark module - it could destroy the Hot-Spark module and void the replacement warranty." . . . low resistance coils being those that require an external resistance for "as designed" operation (reduced current draw and temperature control).

    Hot-Spark goes on to recommend four specific Bosch coils for use with their trigger module, namely:

    0 221 119 054 Bosch Red coil, 12V
    0 221 119 021 Bosch Black coil, 12V
    0 221 119 027 Bosch Blue coil, 12V (VW 043 905 115C)
    0 221 119 020 Bosch Black coil, 12V (VW 022 905 115C)

    . . . and makes no distinction between external resistance coils, the first two, and internal resistance coils, the second two. Proper coil connections will result in ~9V at the "plus" side on the external resistance coils (black 021 - stock Opel) and 12V on the internal resistance coils (black 020 - stock VW).

    Bosch instructions state that their low resistance coils, the first two, MUST use an external resistance for proper operation. The correct, "as designed", Hot-Spark "plus-side" connection question remains unanswered in my opinion!
    Last edited by tekenaar; 01-05-2007 at 11:39 AM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  13. #11
    meaningful on a Corvair..
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    Whoa! You are quite correct. I really didn't bother to go that deep into the issue. I was happy to get a reading of just over 3Ω from the coil.

    For 20 bucks less than the Pertronix, I am happy. (but I ALWAYS keep the points, condensor, and extra coil in the trunk).

    As far as performance change are concerned (you didn't ask but other folks might be interested) there is nothing perceptable, at least nothing that I can ascertain; the whole point of this is reliability and avoiding the eventual deterioration of contact points.

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    UngerDog ungermm's Avatar
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    Hot-Spark BOS4V1 compares to the Pertronix 1847V. The Pertronix patent has expired. Pertronix units usually price $60 - $70.
    About 3 weeks ago, I corresponded with Roy Robertson of Hot-Spark.com. At that time he offered members of OpelGT.com units at a reduced price. Normally priced at $39.95, if you tell them you are a member of OpelGT.com, they will reduce the price to $37.95. There is a $7 shipping and handling fee. Also, if anyone wanted to buy 10 units, the cost would be only $300 and a $7 shipping fee. I started a Hot-Spark thread but not much response was generated. It would be nice to have someone do a product review and have Hot-Spark listed in the discount/affiliates page. I haven't bought one myself yet. Christmas shopping kind of took priority. Jerry


    BOS4V1 applications:
    Opel
    1967-66 Kadett
    1972-67 Kadett 1.1 Litre
    1974-68 GT 1900, Kadett 1.9 Litre
    1968 Kadett 1.5 Litre
    1975-72 Manta
    1975-1900

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    meaningful on a Corvair..
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    Having used both, now, I fully endorse the Hot-Spark product. The Only difference in the package was that the Pertronix came with a plastic gauge with which to space the pickup from the magnet, not really necessary if you use a dwell meter.

    For the record, Corvair owners have never been able to run the Pertronix from the + side of the coil; this resulted really bad performance at higher RPMs. Moving to a switched 12v source solved the problem. There is documentation on this, if you would like, at and around <VV> Yet another Pertronix Ignitor question

  16. #14
    meaningful on a Corvair..
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    By the way, if you want a kick, buy a clear distributor cap. You can watch the advance mechanism at work and this will easily take the place of watching first-generation computer lights blinking in a darkened, smoke-filled computer room in 1968. (Sorry, temp flashback)

    Whoa! What a rush.

    Anyway, they're available for the Bosch distributor, here is an example:
    eBay Motors: VW CLEAR TRANSPARENT DISTRIBUTOR CAPS EMPI 8790 (item 260063652953 end time Dec-23-06 10:40:01 PST)

    And if you dare, watch the whole thing at night. You get to SEE where your spark is dissipating (jumping the gap) and why you have ignition noise in your radio.

    This actually leads me to a question. As the spark has to jump the gap between the rotor and the nearest terminal inside the cap, how much voltage do you suppose is lost? Said another way, how much better performance do you think is attainable by machining that gap away? (By "machining", I mean reducing the gap by building up either the terminal(s) and/or the end of the rotor with conducting material.)

    Looking for your answers/suggestions...

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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Thumbs upPertronix knockoff (read: copy)

    Quote Originally Posted by ungermm View Post
    Hot-Spark BOS4V1 compares to the Pertronix 1847V. The Pertronix patent has expired. Pertronix units usually price $60 - $70.
    About 3 weeks ago, I corresponded with Roy Robertson of Hot-Spark.com. . . . I haven't bought one myself yet. Christmas shopping kind of took priority. Jerry

    . . .
    . . . THAT would indicate that the original Pertronix "plus-side" wiring is the correct one . . . i.e. a FULL 12V with separate wiring for external resistance coils. There would be ZERO incentive for Hot-Spark to do anything other than make a direct copy of the original, well-proven Pertronix design.

    Just another case in point,

    Quote Originally Posted by ralf-who View Post
    Having used both, now, I fully endorse the Hot-Spark product. . . .

    For the record, Corvair owners have never been able to run the Pertronix from the + side of the coil; this resulted really bad performance at higher RPMs. Moving to a switched 12v source solved the problem. There is documentation on this, if you would like, at and around <VV> Yet another Pertronix Ignitor question
    . . . Corvairs use external resistance coils, so, ~9V at the + terminal of the coil. The reason it's much more noticeable on a 6-cyl than on a 4-cyl . . . 50&#37; more sparks (3 vs. 2) required per engine revolution! This settles the Hot-Spark 12V connection issue . . . PERIOD!

    . . . hook it up like this if you want to assure the best trigger module performance possible . . . regardless of the one used!
    Last edited by tekenaar; 01-05-2007 at 06:47 PM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  18. #16
    Member Site Supporter My location N61WP's Avatar
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    I briefly used one of the clear caps with my Pertronix and MSD box...very cool....it melted after only a few hundred miles!
    Jc
    Last edited by tekenaar; 01-06-2007 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Petronics?
    "If you have complete control of the car, you're not going fast enough". PARNELLI JONES 1966

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    7,000 Post Club My location wrench459's Avatar
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    humm just thinking use a hot spark to trigger a MSD DIS module
    Programmable DIS-2, PN 6212
    humm how to locate number one cyl. firing
    Last edited by wrench459; 01-12-2007 at 09:45 PM. Reason: brain farts

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war"

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    baz
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    boomerang opeler My location baz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench459 View Post
    humm just thinking use a hot spark to trigger a MSD DIS module
    Programmable DIS-2, PN 6212
    humm how to locate number one cyl. firing
    read jordans recent posts in the megasquirt group buy thread ? if you are after a crank sensor idea
    Copyright © 2003-2012 barry williams
    All Rights Reserved

    B.O.O.B. founding member


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    Detroit,where my home was My location 2 Fast 4 U's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralf-who View Post
    ...... and using some RTV to seal the ......
    Whats RTV???
    Opel Ascona;
    Only built from 1970 - 1975




    Understeer: The front of the car hits the wall,
    Oversteer: The rear of the car hits the wall,
    Horsepower: How fast the car hits the wall,
    Torque: How far the car pushes the wall.

  22. #20
    Opeler My location
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    RTV= Room temperature vinyl

    many types for many uses.
    Last edited by jordan; 07-07-2007 at 01:38 PM.

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