help: pertronix, coil, resistor, or fuel pump, problem

[Dale .D]

No offense but I hate mechanics,especially $85/hr ones that can't seem to get it right.I'll try to make it short.History 1971 opel 1.9,60,000 mls great condition,getting upgrades done as per your clubs suggestions.GM dealership doing first big upgrade in Victoria.new weber from solex, new exhaust manifold gasket,rewired headlight circuit,wires, cap,pertronix unit, with suggested high performance coil from opelgt source, then some bypass ignition device to take the amperage out of ignition, now ignition won't disengage the starter so the put a switch in so I turn on the car & push button to start it .I'm assuming the ignition needs to be rebuilt but that's not my main problem.Motor ran great for a bit then the 3 ohm resistor broke between the coil & pert unit. They replaced that again but did notice that the resistor unit was getting super hot.Went on road trip back to around the Kamloops are. Every now & then the motor would just cut right out, no coughing or sputering ,just died for a few seconds & came back as new & ran fine ????used to be every 100 miles but got more frequently until I had to be towed. Went to the dealership in kamloops. they looked it all over & said we used the wrong pert coil resistor combo,they put a different higher output coil with a larger ceramic resistor in the next day & said it was fine after 500$ more dollars.Well left down the rd to go home & the same thing happened 200yds down the rd .Very angry now . Crippled my self back to the dealership.Had to rent a car & drive back to victoria & left it with the dealer in kamloops.They say now they think it's the fuel pump so there doing that but there guessing.Maybe there used to the computers telling them whats wrong but they get a car that doesn't have one & they get all confused.The part that confused me is the first gm gealer went & talked to the rep at pertronix & put in the 3 ohm resistor & the other dealer did the same thing & said the first guy was wrong & put in a different coil & resistor.I wish the sourse would of said you had to use this resistor with this coil etc when I ordered it .So there it is don't reall y know what the problem is. I need help , they need help. this problem is very intermittent.It'll work fine for a while but then it starts up again.Anyone feel my pain or has any additional advise please feel free . Thanks Dale D

[tekenaar]

Quit "m"ucking around with the ignition, print out the first post of this thread and hand to your "dealer/mechanic?" and tell him to follow procedure EXACTLY!!

CLEAR?!!

[opelwasp]

First problem: You took a 30 year old Opel to a GM dealership to get worked on. They don't know crap about working on Opels. They need a computer port to work on anything nowadays.

Second problem: Whenever you are going to pay someone else to work on your Opel, always search this site and print out all the info you can about the work you want done. Then insist the mechanic read the papers so he can get it right the first time.

Final solution: Keep reading the site here, and learn all you can. Then get your own hands dirty, and/or call a member who lives close by to help. That's the only way you know it has been done correctly. And it will save you a bunch of money.

[Dale .D]

Straight to the point, I'll do that.Is it possible my ignition is fine & he wired it wrong.Could this be the cause of the other problem I'm having & if so explain?? Thanks

[Dale .D]

Actually I did give the first Mechanic a fist full of info from this site.I know my limits mechanically & thought that if anyone knows anything about Opel the closest thing is the GM dealer but maybe I was wrong .There's absolutely nobody around this neck of the woods that's familiar with these things.I'm a gardener by trade so I have no problem getting my hands dirty.!!

[opelwasp]

The biggest problem I've found with dealers is they will work on anything, but if it's old they won't take the time to get it right. They are in the business of selling new cars not fixing your classic.

I did not mean to imply you are a wimp when it comes to dirt is concerned. I was terrified to dig into my car at first too. But after I did it has been a blast.

It seems a real bummer that no Opelers live near you.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Dale .D Straight to the point, I'll do that.Is it possible my ignition is fine & he wired it wrong.Could this be the cause of the other problem I'm having & if so explain?? Thanks

Not enough background on car to diagnose accurately, but yes, wrong voltage supplied to Pertronix and coil (i.e. wrong wiring connections) can definitely exhibit problem you describe . . . other things too, but those, definitely. "Too hot" coil resistor (too much current flow) is dead give-away that something's not right.

Unless you have an electric fuel pump, that's not part of your problem. If lack of fuel volume is determined to be part of the problem, I'd change fuel filter before anything else and check tank for dirt and/or clogged fuel sock (strainer inside tank) as much more likely suspects.

Starter hanging up after installation of ignition switch isolation relay is ALWAYS caused by worn/dirty ignition switch contacts - carbon tracking between "ON" and "START" contacts inside switch, no longer available, but OGTS can clean and refurbish yours.

Everything you describe are problems caused by the mechanics not having any real clue about what they're doing . . . hate to say it, but it's "too old technology" for most under 50. Opels use very simple, basic mechanics, certainly, but you have to understand those basic mechanical principles to fix them.

Unfortunately, most "modern mechanics" can't fix much of anything unless they can look it up on a screen. Even then, they don't actually "repair" anything anymore, they just replace what the computer tells them. If asked why that item is going to resolve the problem on which they're working, with few exceptions, they will not be able to tell you . . . sad really.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by opelwasp The biggest problem I've found . . . . It seems a real bummer that no Opelers live near you.

. . . uh, you might try some antique/classic car clubs near you too . . . they're usually full of "old farts" that still know how and enjoy working on the "old", simple stuff!

[wrench459]

Is there an old VW,Saab,M/B mechanic in your town?
If so, you're golden...
Love your friendly German mechanic
they all got Bosch parts on them

[bullmoose]

There might be a black wire that runs from the starter to the positive side of the ignition coil. Do you have that wire? If so, where is it connected on the starter side? Originally, it would be plugged into a spade lug on the left side of the solenoid directly below and to the left of where the cable from the battery will hook to the solenoid.

Second, does your ammeter appear to be working OK? Is it showing zero or less or not working at all?

Finally, the service manual shows there is a second wire that should be running from the positive side of the coil to the fuse box, and this wire was originally a resistor cable and would be transparent. Is that wire transparent?

My car's starter doesn't have that lug on the left for the black wire and is not connected on my car. If yours is the same way, and the "mechanics" decided to plug the dangling black wire in the same place the red/white wire or black/red wires would be, then this black wire is another path for electricity to flow. This black wire could be feeding the car through the coil resistor, and would cause the starter to constantly run with the ignition switch in the run position, and would also cause the coil resistor to keep blowing because basically you could be trying to run all the power for the rest of the car through the resistor. If the normal path electricity is supposed to follow via the ammeter and its wiring has a higher resistance, then the electricity will like the little black wire more and cause all kinds of havoc.

I would say this could be as easy as pulling a single wire, but if they "fixed" the starter by plugging a button into the red wire coming off your ignition switch instead of the blk/red, then you'll have to take the button back out.

Also, connect the red wire of the pertronix to the upstream side of the resistor, not the downstream. No sense in making the resistor pull more through it than it needs to. The resistor is only needed by the coil, not the pertronix. I don't know what kind of amperage the pertronix draws, but everything seemed to do a little better when the pertronix got its own 12v direct connection. At least I felt better. ;-)

HTH

[kwilford]

First, I am quite amazed that a GM dealer would even attempt to work on your Opel GT. That said, I give them credit for trying. Most places would tell you to find some "foreign" car repair shop and turn you away.

Second, I presume that you are from Victoria, and were travelling through Kamloops? We have several members in Vancouver, and I think at least one other in Victoria. There are a couple in Trail, and I think at least one in Kelowna. I would guess that if there is a Opel owner nearby, they'd be pleased to help. Or keep heading east, and get to Calgary and I can have a look

Third, what kind of "3 ohm resistor" did they place between the coil and Pertronix? Is it a "ballast resistor". That is only required to reduce the voltage that POWERS a non-resistor coil. There shouldn't ANY resistor BETWEEN the coil and Pertronix. The Pertronix REQUIRES a full 14 volts (what you might think is 12 volts is really about 14 volts) on the "hot" side (red wire to the Pertronix). The other (black wire) connects the Pertronix to the "-ve" side of the coil. The correct Pertronix coil (versus the 1 ohm model) is a 3 ohm coil, and is specified as correct for any 4 cylinder engine without needing the factory resistor wire or a ballast resistor. If you have powered the Pertronix via a ballast resistor, or via the factory resistor wire (it's a clear wire that provides power to the factory coil from the fuse box), then that is your problem.

HTH

[Dale .D]

Yes I'm thinking more your way. Mechanical fuel pumps don't usually work & then not work. It's a slow death. fuel filter was already replaced but the pick up in the tank's a possibility or possibly the filter got clogged up real fast since i started using it . The car was hardly used the last 5 or 6 years. At least by putting a new fuel pump it will eliminate that possibility. I believe the mechanics theory was when the motor just dies for 4 or 5 seconds & i'm pumping it & nothing happens & the motor kicks back in & runs fine. The intake should be loaded with fuel & there should be a good backfire but there wasn't?? . Thanks for everyone input . keep it coming

[Dale .D]

Bullmoose & kwilford.You guys know your electronics.. I'm going to try & forward your remarks to the place in kamloops so they can double check the wiring.I live an hr above Victoria in a small town called Shawnigan Lk but work in Victoria. I know of one guy in Vict that's doing a frame up rebuild but no other working ones to my knowledge but you never know.Going to a german guy might be a possibility . My last 2 cars were Jettas. Just want my car back & reliable so we can go to the Spanaway get together in a couple of weeks in Washington. Take care eh!

[nobody]

I've seen this problem 3 times now. you originally had it most likely low voltage wired to the pertronics then they went above the 30k limit on the coil and it killed the pertronics slowly until you had to be towed. Been there done that and did it to a Crane ignition too before I did the research on it all.