points and condensers - weak spark
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Thread: points and condensers - weak spark

  1. #21
    Opeler 2_Late_I_Won is on a distinguished road
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    Well it's barely visible. And it's not sparking between the gap. It's a white color spark not bright blue. I don't know for a fact but it appears to be a factory one. Looks like baby bottle sort of. With a neg. lead on the top left and a pos. lead on the top right. in between where the coil wire goes.

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  3. #22
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar will become famous soon enough tekenaar's Avatar
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    Question Some more ?s

    How was the engine running before you replaced all the ignition parts? What kind of secondary (plug) wires did you use?

    Coil has a tan top? If so, that's a stock Bosch coil, specifically designed for the Opel 4-cylinder engine . . . believe me, I've never seen one fail in more than 30 years of Opel ownership!


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  4. #23
    Opeler 2_Late_I_Won is on a distinguished road
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    This one has a solid black top on it.

    Well my brother bought this a few months ago, not running. It needed a carb. So after viewing this site it was highly recommended to get a weber carb. So my brother saved up the money to do that and I told him we should go ahead and do a "tune up" since it looks like it needs it done anyway[s]. The plugs weren't too bad not a lot of carbon build up and not white so I looks like it had been running pretty well [good]. Not too lean or not too rich. The plug wires had some burn spots at the connecting point (where the wire and the part that goes to the plug go), so it needed wires. The rotor looked decent but not too bad ( it was a few $, so we changed that) and the cap didn't look too awfully bad either but same as the rotor, we changed it out too. I looked at the points and condenser and it looked fairly good still kinda shiny *which isn't saying too much, heck they may need to be changed also (=too)* and the [connecting] points (contacts) looked pretty solid (being that I've never changed those out, I left them alone). So, all in all, I don't know how well it ran but looking at the condition of the plugs it should have a good spark or at least better than what it has now.


    I really appreciate your help on this. Thanks again Brian
    Last edited by tekenaar; 07-23-2007 at 02:33 PM. Reason: sight-eyes, site-location; shinny up a tree

  5. #24
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar will become famous soon enough tekenaar's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Ah so, grasshopper! . . . a little trick!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2_Late_I_Won View Post
    This one has a solid black top on it.

    Well my brother bought this a few months ago, not running. . . . I looked at the points and condenser and it looked fairly good still kinda shiny, *which isn't saying too much, heck they may need to be changed also (=too)* and the [connecting] points (contacts) looked pretty solid (being that I've never changed those out, I left them alone). So, all in all, I don't know how well it ran but looking at the condition of the plugs it should have a good spark or at least better than what it has now.

    I really appreciate your help on this. Thanks again Brian
    Ah so, everything but the points and condensor were changed then, right?!

    Sad to say, but the most likely "points ignition" trouble spot in a car that has been sitting for a while is the points! Condensation from moisture in the air tends to form a film over the contacts over time, so that they can no longer quite "close" (go to zero ohms resistance to ground). This means that the coil's secondary never fully "charges" and reduces the coil's output, resulting in the "weak spark" you're seeing.

    Do you have a girlfriend? First thing to do at this point to verify this is to borrow one of her emery boards (nail file) and run it between the distributor points to clean them . . . of course, she may not want it back after that, but you now have a new tool for your toolbox . . . a PLUS all the way around!

    Test it again after emery boarding it and see what happens . . .


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  6. #25
    Opeler 2_Late_I_Won is on a distinguished road
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    Woooo Whooooo

    Yeah I have one of my wife's in my tool box actually LOL thanks I'll try that tonight if it's not raining and get back with you tomorrow.

    BTW yeah we didn't change out the points or condenser. Makes sense now that you mention it.:banghead:

    Thanks again hopefully this will work
    Last edited by tekenaar; 07-23-2007 at 03:58 PM. Reason: 'since' when?

  7. #26
    Über OpelGT.com Moderator My location kwilford will become famous soon enough kwilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Do you have a girlfriend? . .
    Quote Originally Posted by 2_Late_I_Won View Post
    Yeah I have one of my wife's in my tool box
    Hmm, between Otto asking personal questions and correcting spelling errors, LOOK at the answer he gets! Otto, Myrna says we ALL have too much time on our hands. Woooo Whooooo!
    Keith Wilford
    If I could only find the time to work on my '71 Opel GT...

  8. #27
    Non Civilian My location opelwasp is on a distinguished road opelwasp's Avatar
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    Actually he recommended using your girlfriends emery board not your wifes, I guess there's a difference. If you don't have a girlfriend then go out and get one, then you can fix the points.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 07-24-2007 at 12:35 AM.
    Arguing online is the same as racing in the Special Olympics;
    no matter who wins, you're both still retarded.

    1971 GT (Opelwasp)
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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar will become famous soon enough tekenaar's Avatar
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    Wink Emery boards . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Do you have a girlfriend? . .
    Quote Originally Posted by 2_Late_I_Won View Post
    Yeah I have one of my wife's in my tool box
    Quote Originally Posted by kwilford View Post
    Hmm, between Otto asking personal questions and correcting spelling errors, LOOK at the answer he gets! Otto, Myrna says we ALL have too much time on our hands. Woooo Whooooo!
    Looks like he'll still be able to fix it though . . . that is, as long as his wife's girlfriend, the one in his toolbox, has an emery board on her!


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  10. #29
    1000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano will become famous soon enough P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Question:
    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Do you have a girlfriend? . .
    Answer:
    Quote Originally Posted by 2_Late_I_Won View Post
    Yeah I have one of my wife's in my tool box
    Reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Looks like he'll still be able to fix it though . . . that is, as long as his wife's girlfriend, the one in his toolbox, has an emery board on her!
    Cunning dyslexic now?
    Last edited by tekenaar; 07-24-2007 at 01:04 PM. Reason: dislextic?

  11. #30
    Opeler 2_Late_I_Won is on a distinguished road
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    Ok well if it's not the coil or condenser what do you think it is? I replace the plugs set the gap to .030 replaced the wires and rotor. I don't know what else it could be. I already through away the old parts cause I figured why keep something if I'm replacing it with new stuff so I really can't go back and individually find out what's wrong.

    I went home last night and cleaned the points really good and still got a really weak spark.

    Thanks guys keep the info coming I'll figure it out sooner or later

  12. #31
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar will become famous soon enough tekenaar's Avatar
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    Exclamation Distributor points plate ground

    Quote Originally Posted by 2_Late_I_Won View Post
    Ok well if it's not the coil or condenser what do you think it is? I replace the plugs set the gap to .030 replaced the wires and rotor. I don't know what else it could be. I already through away the old parts cause I figured why keep something if I'm replacing it with new stuff so I really can't go back and individually find out what's wrong.

    I went home last night and cleaned the points really good and still got a really weak spark.

    Thanks guys keep the info coming I'll figure it out sooner or later
    . . . about the only thing left is a broken braided points-plate ground wire inside the distributor. The braided wire connects the moveable vacuum advance/retard points-plate to the fixed and grounded plate directly below it.



    Remove cap and rotor to verify its condition . . . without this ground in a 'points' distributor, you'll get very erratic ignition, if any at all!


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  13. #32
    5,000 Post Club My location namba209 (R.I.P.) is on a distinguished road namba209 (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    I may be "out to lunch" on this, but a "weak spark" is a relative term. Why not hook everything up, check the ignition timing and see if it starts and runs? If it does run, then all this is a moot point, but if it doesn't try to start, then trouble shooting can begin in earnest. JMTCW
    Ron
    72 GT 3.4L V-6/T-5/ZF posi - almost done - Just need AC installed.
    75 Chevy monza 5.7L/TH350/Auburn 3.08 posi - Next

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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar will become famous soon enough tekenaar's Avatar
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    Red face Determining "weak spark", relatively speaking

    Quote Originally Posted by namba209 View Post
    I may be "out to lunch" on this, but a "weak spark" is a relative term. Why not hook everything up, check the ignition timing and see if it starts and runs? If it does run, then all this is a moot point, but if it doesn't try to start, then trouble shooting can begin in earnest. JMTCW
    AGREED! . . . I asked about the same thing in my second post of the original, merged "weak spark" thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Hmmm . . . begs the question, "What do you mean by 'weak' spark?" How are you determining "weak spark?" . . .


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  15. #34
    5,000 Post Club My location namba209 (R.I.P.) is on a distinguished road namba209 (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    Yep, I saw that Otto. I'm curious, if he tried to start the car initially before all the fun and games began. Now, according to another thread a Weber is going on the car. IMHO, the KISS method should be used, get the car running, or at least attempt it, then go on with trouble shooting. Changing two or more things at one time is asking for problems, you don't know which thing is giving you problems. Not having an engine start or run right is normally broken down to three things, air, fuel, and spark in the correct sequence. He's messing with two of the three at the same time. Not a good plan.
    Ron
    72 GT 3.4L V-6/T-5/ZF posi - almost done - Just need AC installed.
    75 Chevy monza 5.7L/TH350/Auburn 3.08 posi - Next

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    Opeler Anonymous D is on a distinguished road
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    Also

    Remove the condensor, and clean the mount area on the outside of the distributor. If there's excessive dirt or grease there, it could interfere with the circuit operation. Also, verify that there is a ground strap to the engine, and that the threads to its mount bolts (and the contact areas to the strap) are clean -- use sandpaper there if needed.

  17. #36
    Member Site Supporter My location N61WP is on a distinguished road N61WP's Avatar
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    I vaguely remember having a bad condenser cause a weak spark on something old I once owned....Senior moment, can't remember which car but I think it was British....

    Jc
    "If you have complete control of the car, you're not going fast enough". PARNELLI JONES 1966

  18. #37
    Opeler 2_Late_I_Won is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    AGREED! . . . I asked about the same thing in my second post of the original, merged "weak spark" thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by 2_Late_I_Won View Post
    Well it's barely visible. And it's not sparking between the gap. It's a white color spark not bright blue. I don't know for a fact but it appears to be a factory one. Looks like baby bottle sort of. With a neg. lead on the top left and a pos. lead on the top right. in between where the coil wire goes.


    Yeah I tried to start it and then I tried to diagnose it. The only thing I found that it could be is a weak spark. hummm maybe the timing is soooo far off it won't even act like it's going to start. But I don't think you/I can ck timing if the motor isn't running right??? or can I ck it with the motor just by starter power?

    Next (tonight or tomorrow) I'll ck that ground wire. Thanks guys

  19. #38
    Opeler 2_Late_I_Won is on a distinguished road
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    Question:

    Answer:

    Reply:


    Cunning dyslexic now?

    LOL I'm glad to see you guys have a sense of humor

    "bow chicka bow wow"
    Last edited by tekenaar; 07-25-2007 at 12:58 PM. Reason: 'since' of humor? since when

  20. #39
    5,000 Post Club My location namba209 (R.I.P.) is on a distinguished road namba209 (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2_Late_I_Won View Post
    But I don't think you/I can ck timing if the motor isn't running right??? or can I ck it with the motor just by starter power?
    An old motorcycle timing trick. A 12V lite/socket with a pair of small alligator clips attached to the socket. One clip on the power side of the point contacts, the other to ground. Rotate the flywheel until the timing marks line up. Loosen disributor and rotate to the point the lite just turns on. Here's the trick, with the points closed, it creates a circuit to power the coil, when the points are open the circuit to the lite is completed and turns on the lite. Otherwise known as static timing.
    Ron
    72 GT 3.4L V-6/T-5/ZF posi - almost done - Just need AC installed.
    75 Chevy monza 5.7L/TH350/Auburn 3.08 posi - Next

  21. #40
    Opeler 2_Late_I_Won is on a distinguished road
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    Ahhhwwww I'll have to attempt to try that. Thanks

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