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  1. #21
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newman27 View Post

    • Tach jumps when the problem is about to occur while at idle
    • Turning the car off and then immediately back on with some extra RPMs corrects the issue until the next time I have to stop for a light
    • Keeping the RPMs up while stopped (i.e., not letting it fall back to idle but instead keep the RPMs up around 1,500 - 2,000) will enable the car to accelerate from a stop without stalling

    I'd be interested in more info on your symptoms and also what Hot Spark says in their response.

    Matt
    You are exactly right, that is what mine did, sometimes if you don't let the RPM drop too low it will still fire on higher RPM. I just recently pulled this car out it has 20,000 on rebuilt drive train from PO after a little brake work and other little mods like the hot spark I was very happy with it so I decided to put it on the road. I thought my gas was the problem from sitting all these years but it turned out that it was to blame only because thats what it acted like. I will let you know what hot spark says, like I said I have 4 of these units, two are on rebuilt engines and have never been fired up yet. Since changing back to mechanical points it has over 200 miles put on it and still running fine. As far as coils exploding or ruining the unit by leaving power on that can happen in systems with no resistance in the 12 volt feed for the unit. You leave the ignition on and the magnet or points are closed your putting 12 volt battery source across the coil and mechanism that fires it, something is going to give, in a point system the coil heats up and blows the top off in electronic units the firing device heats up with coil as a load and either the top blows off the coil or the module burns up. Thats why the opel GT from the factory has the resistance wire in series with ignition so if you leave the key on you have some resistance in the circuit to help drop the applied 12 volts to the coil.

    "Assumption - feel free to correct where wrong - you initially ran your Hot-Spark trigger with a non-internal-resistor coil and without any external resistor or stock resistor wire at the + terminal of the coil and probably hooked the Hot Spark + (red?) wire there too, correct? . . . after running the car on the road like this for a while, you then experienced your problem, right?"

    tekenaar, your assumptions I feel are wrong ( I had enough resistance to run without the ballast they provided because I have the original resistive wire in place and a performance coil well larger coil by bosch, I had trouble with the tach so I added the external resistor they supplied with kit and it made the tach respond better so I left it that way) thats what is good about communication it gives you perspective of others outside the box, new eyes if you will...it is a heat related problem with the unit itself, it never was on the road with out a load resistor and I never left the key on. I measured resistance when I assembled as per the instructions. When it is cold it runs and works excellent once engine gets up to operating temps you start feeling the problem especially at lower speeds until it eventually just does not run and dies, soon as it cools off it fires right back up and within a few miles it does the same. I'm not going to hook up any more of these units until the factory gives me a solution or my money back. My bigger coil did get warmer thats why I thought it was bad and used the original and had the same problem. The unit in my opinion is getting hot and failing closed, it was set up as per the instructions it has always had some sort of resistive load across it, never was battery 12 volts applied to it except possible at cranking speeds due to the other 12 V feed from the solenoid while being cranked.
    All ideas are appreciated, I do have one of these units working on my 71 but it has not been on more than a couple mile runs at a time due to no inspection and registration. Sometimes at night I take it out around the block but it's also cooler at night so I really don't know what that unit will do or not do under operating conditions on the highway.



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

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  3. #22
    Have Opel, Will Travel oldopelguy's Avatar
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    You know I read all these posts again and I still can't figure out how other people hook up these things in their cars no matter how they try and explain it.

    The instructions for the electronic ignition modules we are using on our Opels, all of them, are written for people installing them in VW bugs. On the VW the (+) side of the coil is a 12V feed directly from the ignition switch since the coil has an internal resistor, so it makes sense to use that as the 12V input to the ignition module. The coil trigger gets hooked up to the (-) side of the coil to trigger it and the module is grounded (for that coil circuit) by screwing it in place and using the small braided copper wire the points used to use to ground.

    On the Opel the (+) side of the coil is not a 12V feed. Instead they added a ballast resistor to limit DC current through the coil in the form of a resistor wire and a bypass wire to feed straight 12V to the coil for a hotter spark during starting. That all works fine for powering up the coil, it's actually a great design, but in order to get a proper 12V for the points eliminator you need to hook it up upstream of the ballast resistor. In the case of the GT that means all the way back at the fusebox upstream of the clear-insulation ballast resistor wire. The resistor wire and all the connections to the (+) side of the coil can remain as-is, that system works fine, even with a new coil as long as it's an external resistor coil. If you would rather use a ceramic resistor instead of the clear ballast resistor wire you can bypass all those and hook your fuse-box feed wire for the points eliminator to one side of the resistor to feed it and the other side of the resistor to the coil (+) side.

    All that background out there, how can you be running both the stock resistor wire and an external resistor and the coil still work? Together they would drop voltage to nearly 6V and make for a very weak spark. Along the same lines, is the 12V feed wire to the HotSpark coming straight from the fuse box or is it somewhere in the middle of the voltage reduction from the resistors?

    I don't know exactly what's inside the HotSpark module, but at it's simplist it has to be a hall-effect magnetic sensor and at least one transistor biased so that when the Hall-effect becomes conductive the transistor shorts the (-) lead to ground with a minimum of resistance. The transistor will be acting like an amplifier, boosting the small current capacity of the Hall-effect sensor to a level of current capacity as needed for the coil. With an improper feed voltage to those circuit components I would need technical specifications to completely rule out the effects being described.

    On the other end of the circuit is the ground connection inside the distributor. If the points are working correctly they should be good, but it's worth double-checking when you're next in there. You may also me able to extend your heat-resistance by adding a dab of heat conductive grease to the underside of the module when you install it next, to help it use the plate inside the distributor as a heat sink. This might bite you in the butt, though, if the engine is heating that plate up, in which case it might be possible to slip something in-between to limit the heat transfer from the plate to the module a bit as long as the pin and screw on the module still make good electrical contact.

    It might be worth noting too that a spark amplification box like those made my MSD uses the points or ignition module as a trigger signal and does the hard work of grounding the coil within itself. That means if the ignition modules are failing due to high current levels when they heat up adding one of those boxes would reduce the current through the module to a fraction of what it is now and it might continue to work indefinitely. Certainly more expensive than the $59 for a new module, but ultimately a better spark and probably better running car.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-15-2008 at 02:01 PM. Reason: indefinately
    Lots of Opels, for a long time.

  4. #23
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    Hot Spark has given me the following email,


    Hi,


    The blue ignition module requires a coil with at least 3.2 Ohms primary resistance.

    The red ignition module requires a coil with at least 1.5 Ohms primary resistance.

    Don't use a low-resistance coil, such as Accel or MSD.

    We'll send a replacement 3BOS4U1 ignition kit (red).

    Please return the blue module to:

    Hot-Spark
    3723 Keats Dr 133
    Austin TX 78704


    Regards,


    Roy


    In addition to this problem the first two modules I bought were blue plastic cased the last two I bought were red. I'll try it and see let ya guys know the outcome.



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

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  6. #24
    former opel racer My location jeff denton's Avatar
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    I wonder if the problem starts with an inability to understand the coil information just given. Undoubtedly compounded by a sense of frugality, you know, "the old coil worked, why replace it".
    I don't think any of us are actual rocket scientists, and few understand basic electical theory, but there are some actual mechanics in the crowd.
    These ignition systems need to come complete with the coil required and a very detailed instruction sheet.
    Dennis, I think your company could handle that. How about put together an ignition kit for our Opel enthusiasts? Surely within minutes it would be known that yours is the one to buy, period.
    All the products I've bought from OGTS were excellent, and the instructions supplied were incredibly thorough and even illustrated! Not to mention the friendly advice just a phone call away.

    Warning us what coil not to use was only half helpful. Why don't they spell out exactly which one they need us to use with their product, by brand name and part number?

  7. #25
    '72 Opel GT (Sara) My location newman27's Avatar
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    FYI - I found the 1847V Ignitor unit on eBay available from a few vendors for $60 - $65 with shipping. Note that I could not find an application of the newer Ignitor II mapped to our Opels. The Pertronix catalog lists only the original Ignitor 1847V as being appropriate. I corrected my earlier posted link into the Pertronix website to take you to the right product.

    Matt
    '72 Opel GT (Fireglow Orange) "Sara"

    Major Mods: Weber Carb, High Compression Pistons, Electronic Ignition, Custom CAI, Sprint Manifold,
    Enhanced Suspension (Anti-Sway Bars / Koni Reds / Sport Springs), "Big" Brake Package with 22mm Booster / MC, 15x8" Wheels and Toyo RA-1 Tires, XM Radio

    Restoration Thread
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    Other Cars:
    '09 Pontiac G8 GT (Panther Black) "Jet"
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  8. #26
    GTer My location pecje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Texas View Post

    Hot Spark has given me the following email,
    The red ignition module requires a coil with at least 1.5 Ohms primary resistance.

    We'll send a replacement 3BOS4U1 ignition kit (red).

    In addition to this problem the first two modules I bought were blue plastic cased the last two I bought were red. I'll try it and see let ya guys know the outcome.
    Bought the red cased ignition kit 3BOS4U1 from Hot Spark myself a few weeks ago. The installation took me 10 mins. I also set the timing correct with a stroboscobic light. The car runs like it has never run before in years. Absolutely without problems . My car is equipped with the original blue Bosch coil.

    Patrick
    that guy likes this.
    Definitely EX-member of the MWTE! © Mr. Corey Suggs

  9. #27
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Arrow"stock" Opel Bosch coils

    Quote Originally Posted by pecje View Post
    Bought the red cased ignition kit 3BOS4U1 from Hot Spark myself a few weeks ago. The installation took me 10 mins. I also set the timing correct with a stroboscobic light. The car runs like it has never run before in years. Absolutely without problems . My car is equipped with the original blue Bosch coil.

    Patrick
    . . . hope you're not saying that Bosch "blue coil" was "stock," however, as all Opel "stock" coils used during those years, up to '75, were "external resistance" types and the "blue coil" is/was an "aftermarket/replacement" internal-resisitance coil type . . .



    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-15-2008 at 01:47 PM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  10. #28
    GTer My location pecje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    . . . hope you're not saying that Bosch "blue coil" was "stock," however, as all Opel "stock" coils used during those years, up to '75, were "external resistance" types and the "blue coil" is/was an "aftermarket/replacement" internal-resisitance coil type . . .
    As far as I know the coil is still the original one. Could it be that blue Bosch coils were stock on Dutch/European cars?
    For a picture of my coil see:
    Under the hood 2 - Opel Photo Gallery
    Definitely EX-member of the MWTE! © Mr. Corey Suggs

  11. #29
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Exclamation12-step program for the electrically challenged

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff denton View Post
    I wonder if the problem starts with an inability to understand the coil information just given. Undoubtedly compounded by a sense of frugality, you know, "the old coil worked, why replace it".
    I don't think any of us are actual rocket scientists, and few understand basic electical theory, but there are some actual mechanics in the crowd.
    These ignition systems need to come complete with the coil required and a very detailed instruction sheet.
    Dennis, I think your company could handle that. How about put together an ignition kit for our Opel enthusiasts? Surely within minutes it would be known that yours is the one to buy, period.
    All the products I've bought from OGTS were excellent, and the instructions supplied were incredibly thorough and even illustrated! Not to mention the friendly advice just a phone call away.

    Warning us what coil not to use was only half helpful. Why don't they spell out exactly which one they need us to use with their product, by brand name and part number?
    . . . Jeff, posted this ages ago specifically for the electric/electronically challenged among us . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar - 01/18/2005 View Post
    Simplest installation of electronically triggered ignition in a GT is to purchase and use Pertronix/Hot-Spark trigger and stock coil. Here's how:

    1. Remove cap, rotor, points and condenser with green wire from distributor and disconnect green "condenser/points" wire from coil. Leave everything else connected as-is.
    2. Install Pertronix/Hot-Spark trigger amp module where points were, do not tighten mounting screws yet.
    3. Run red and black module wires out "points wire" hole in side of distributor and install grommet in "points wire" hole, leaving a bit of slack on both wires inside of distributor.
    4. Push black plastic magnet unit onto distributor shaft and seat over points cam.
    5. Adjust trigger amp module to magnet unit clearance using clear plastic gauge that is provided and tighten trigger module screws.
    6. Replace rotor and cap . . . you're now done with the distributor.
    7. Connect black Pertronix/Hot-Spark wire to coil contact from which you removed the green points wire.
    8. Cut an 18" length of 16/18 gauge red wire, strip both ends ~1/4" and crimp on a 1/4" female spade connector on one end.
    9. Locate clear (resistance) wire at front of fuse #3 (from passenger side) of the fuse box and attach red wire terminal on an extra lug there. This is your switched 12V (turns on with ignition key) source for powering Pertronix/Hot-Spark.
    10. Run the other end of the red wire through the firewall at the windshield washer foot pump hose grommet.
    11. Crimp 1/4" male spade connector to red wire now underhood and connect to matching Pertronix/Hot-Spark red wire female spade terminal.
    12. To paraphrase our own SouthWest Airlines: "You're now free to move about the country!"


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  12. #30
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    ArrowNo "stock" Bosch blue coil . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by pecje View Post
    As far as I know the coil is still the original one. Could it be that blue Bosch coils were stock on Dutch/European cars?
    For a picture of my coil see:
    Under the hood 2 - Opel Photo Gallery
    Not possible . . . check for two wires with a common female-spade connector at the + side of your coil - one black/red, one clear. The clear wire is a 1.8Ω resistance "RUN" wire, which powers the coil with ~9V at all times except while starting the engine . . . 12V from black/red wire.

    Opel would NOT intentionally connect an internal resistance coil, like the Bosch "blue coil", to an "external resistance" power wire, further dropping the start voltage to ~9V and the actual "run" voltage to only ~6V! . . . totally defeating their original "ignition voltage boost during start" design, as already stated in a previous post here.

    . . . and, looking at your picture, can't really tell if there are two wires at the coil's + terminal, but the female-spade connector at one of the connections (tach/e-trigger?) is definitely NOT original! . . . that side typically had a round "bullet" type connector and green wire(s).
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-15-2008 at 03:38 PM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  13. #31
    GTer My location pecje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Not possible . . . check for two wires with a common female-spade connector at the + side of your coil - one black/red, one clear.
    . . . and, looking at your picture, can't really tell if there are two wires at the coil's + terminal, but the female-spade connector at one of the connections (tach/e-trigger?) is definitely NOT original! . . . that side typically had a round "bullet" type connector and green wire(s).
    Before installing the Hot Spark ignition there were 3 wires connected to the coil, all coming from the original electrical cable:
    at the 12V (+/15) side a black one and a clear one (with the Hot Spark ignition also a red one).
    and at the "-" side a green one and a black one from the H-S.
    Looking at the wrapping of the cables, all authentic.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-15-2008 at 04:26 PM.
    Definitely EX-member of the MWTE! © Mr. Corey Suggs

  14. #32
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    ArrowExactly what I said!

    Quote Originally Posted by pecje View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Not possible . . . check for two wires with a common female-spade connector at the + side of your coil - one black/red, one clear. The clear wire is a 1.8Ω resistance "RUN" wire, which powers the coil with ~9V at all times except while starting the engine . . . 12V from black/red wire.

    Opel would NOT intentionally connect an internal resistance coil, like the Bosch "blue coil", to an "external resistance" power wire, further dropping the start voltage to ~9V and the actual "run" voltage to only ~6V! . . . totally defeating their original "ignition voltage boost during start" design, as already stated in a previous post here.

    . . . .
    Before installing the Hot Spark ignition there were 3 wires connected to the coil, all coming from the original electrical cable:
    at the 12V (+/15) side a black one and a clear one (with the Hot Spark ignition also a red one).
    and at the "-" side a green one and a black one from the H-S.
    Looking at the wrapping of the cables, all authentic.
    . . . which is exactly what I said! . . . the way it's connected now is: authentic, original wiring attached to a non-stock, internal resistance coil with incorrect voltage (+9V) thus applied to both your Hot Spark and blue coil + terminal!

    Both e-trigger and blue coil + connection only have a full +12V applied during starting! During "RUN" condition, there is only +9V applied by the resistance wire to the e-trigger and blue coil + terminal!

    So, because blue coil is internal resistor type, the coil actually only sees +9V during "Start" and ~+6V during "RUN" . . . i.e. no ignition voltage boost at "Start", only 67% (+9V) of the designed "Run" voltage at the + terminal (only 50% (+6V) used at the coil) and coil being triggered by e-trigger running at 75% (+9V) of the designed voltage level! . . . none of these are GOOD!
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-16-2008 at 11:15 AM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  15. #33
    GTer My location pecje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    So, because blue coil is internal resistor type, the coil actually only sees +9V during "Start" and ~+6V during "RUN" . . . i.e. no ignition voltage boost at "Start", only 67% (+9V) of the designed "Run" voltage at the + terminal (only 50% (+6V) used at the coil) and coil being triggered by e-trigger running at 75% (+9V) of the designed voltage level! . . . none of these are GOOD!
    Now I'm completely confused .
    I read this thread a few times but I can't figure out how to connect my blue coil and H-S ignition. If I understand well mine is hooked up wrong.
    Sorry that I don't understand, but I'm not that technical (especially electronics) and since English is not my native language...:banghead:
    Please tekenaar help me out before I blow up my H-S and coil.

    Patrick
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-16-2008 at 11:14 AM.
    Definitely EX-member of the MWTE! © Mr. Corey Suggs

  16. #34
    Detroit,where my home was My location 2 Fast 4 U's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecje View Post
    Please tekenaar help me out before I blow up my H-S and coil.
    Patrick als de voltage lager is dan het moet zijn zal je de H-S en bobine niet opblazen. Uit de uitleg van Otto heb ik dit begrepen:
    Als je een Blauwe Bosch bobine hebt, dan heeft deze een extra inwendige weerstand, omdat de originele draden uit de kabelboom zijn gebruikt krijgt jou bobine en ontstekings module, door de weerstands draad [de draad met doorzichtige isolatie] nu minder spanning, niet dat dit zo heel erg is, maar je vonk is hier door ook minder, het beste zou zijn als je een geschakelde [dus door de contact slot geschakelde] 12 VDC naar de bobine en ontstekings module brengt, en de ander twee draden los haalt en aftape met isolatietape zodat ze geen sluiting kunnen maken, verdere draden zijn dan goed.
    Last edited by 2 Fast 4 U; 09-16-2008 at 04:03 PM. Reason: extra explanation in Dutch
    Opel Ascona;
    Only built from 1970 - 1975




    Understeer: The front of the car hits the wall,
    Oversteer: The rear of the car hits the wall,
    Horsepower: How fast the car hits the wall,
    Torque: How far the car pushes the wall.

  17. #35
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    ExclamationNog beter . . . even better!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pecje View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    . . .Both e-trigger and blue coil + connection only have a full +12V applied during starting! During "RUN" condition, there is only +9V applied by the resistance wire to the e-trigger and blue coil + terminal!

    So, because blue coil is internal resistor type, the coil actually only sees +9V during "Start" and ~+6V during "RUN" . . . i.e. no ignition voltage boost at "Start", only 67% (+9V) of the designed "Run" voltage at the + terminal (only 50% (+6V) used at the coil) and coil being triggered by e-trigger running at 75% (+9V) of the designed voltage level! . . . none of these are GOOD!
    Now I'm completely confused .
    I read this thread a few times but I can't figure out how to connect my blue coil and H-S ignition. If I understand well mine is hooked up wrong.
    Sorry that I don't understand, but I'm not that technical (especially electronics) and since English is not my native language...:banghead:
    Please tekenaar help me out before I blow up my H-S and coil.

    Patrick
    Otto misschien is het beter om het in het Nederlands te verwoorden

    Patrick als de voltage lager is dan het moet zijn zal je de H-S en bobine niet opblazen, eigenlijk moet je, als ik Otto goed verstaan heb, de weerstand van de bobine meten om te zien als het een extra inwendige weerstand heeft, zo ja dan moet je de draad met de doorzichtige isolatie overbruggen, omdat deze draad ook al een weerstand is die de 12 VDC terug brengt naar 9 VDC, en als in de bobine ook een weerstand is, breng je de spanning verder terug naar 6 VDC.

    Dit is wat ik uit het verhaal van Otto begrepen heb
    Goedzo, Erick, dat is het precies . . . well done, Erick, that's it exactly . . . Patrick, maybe this will help a bit more . . . misschien zal dit nog wel een beetje meer helpen . . .



    First column is stock coil, or any non-resistor coil - i.e. Bosch red coil, correctly connected and triggered by points or correctly wired e-trigger with all relevant voltages listed . . .

    Second column is Bosch blue coil, or any internal resistance coil, correctly connected and triggered by points or correctly wired e-trigger with all relevant voltages listed . . . note that the coil does not get a voltage boost during 'start'!

    Third column is commonly, but incorrectly, wired Bosch blue coil and incorrectly wired e-trigger . . . e-trigger is powered by only +9V (75% design voltage) during 'key on/run' condition and ignition is further hampered by coil's +6V (50%) actual operating voltage, regardless of trigger method used!

    This is what I meant by, " . . . none of these are good!"

    . . . alles nu verstaan? . . . everything now understood?
    Last edited by tekenaar; 12-27-2008 at 02:24 PM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  18. #36
    '72 Opel GT (Sara) My location newman27's Avatar
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    Question

    So, if the electronic ignition module begins to "fail" causing the car to misfire, does that also mean the mechanical fuel pump driven off the distributor drive shaft would also begin to fail to pump enough fuel to the carb? In other words, is it possible that failure of the ignition module can also lead to fuel starvation as a secondary problem? It seems logical but not sure...maybe a stupid question . I'm just trying to build a complete picture here of the sequence of events.
    '72 Opel GT (Fireglow Orange) "Sara"

    Major Mods: Weber Carb, High Compression Pistons, Electronic Ignition, Custom CAI, Sprint Manifold,
    Enhanced Suspension (Anti-Sway Bars / Koni Reds / Sport Springs), "Big" Brake Package with 22mm Booster / MC, 15x8" Wheels and Toyo RA-1 Tires, XM Radio

    Restoration Thread
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    Other Cars:
    '09 Pontiac G8 GT (Panther Black) "Jet"
    '06 Pontiac Solstice (Envious Green) "Mina"
    '99 Oldsmobile Intrigue GLS (Black Onyx) "Raven"

  19. #37
    Have Opel, Will Travel oldopelguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newman27 View Post
    So, if the electronic ignition module begins to "fail" causing the car to misfire, does that also mean the mechanical fuel pump driven off the distributor drive shaft would also begin to fail to pump enough fuel to the carb?
    There is absolutely no correlation between the electronics within the module failing an the mechanical actuation of the fuel pump. The mechanical portion of the distributor is gear driven from the crankshaft and will continue to rotate as long as the engine is turning and the gear hasn't failed, there are no electronics involved. Further, the electronic ignition module doesn't even touch the rotating part of the distributor.

    Above and beyond all that, the engine runs off a small puddle of fuel inside the carb being drawn in by engine vacuum through a metered hole. Basically a controlled leak from a small cup. That cup holds enough fuel for the engine to run for several seconds and it's level is replenished by the fuel pump. A noticable failure of the ignition module would be on the order of individual engine revolutions, a very small portion of a second, by comparison.
    Lots of Opels, for a long time.

  20. #38
    GTer My location pecje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    . . . alles nu verstaan? . . . everything now understood?
    Thanks for the info Otto . Tomorrow I'll check the wiring and voltages. However before you posted this excellent diagram I measured the voltage of the coil with the engine running: between "15" and ground I measured 13V ; between "-" and ground I measured 11.5V. Does this tell you anything already?
    Definitely EX-member of the MWTE! © Mr. Corey Suggs

  21. #39
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecje View Post
    Thanks for the info Otto . Tomorrow I'll check the wiring and voltages. However before you posted this excellent diagram I measured the voltage of the coil with the engine running: between "15" and ground I measured 13V ; between "-" and ground I measured 11.5V. Does this tell you anything already?
    Coil "-" connection is the coils trigger side, which switches the coil's ground connection on and off so it can "charge" when "on" and "discharge" (fire the plugs) when "off". The voltage you measured there is an "average-on/off" voltage and is used to measure "dwell" angle, the ratio of coil on/off time which determines the coil's actual output voltage based on its winding ratio.

    BTW . . . automotive electrical voltage is typically referred to as 12V, even though, when the engine is running, it should measure 13.3-13.8V on older cars and up to ~14.6V or so on newer cars with higher amp, electronically (rather than electro-mechanically) regulated alternators.

    Oh yes, the actual voltage used to charge the coil cannot be measured externally on "internal resistance" coils because the "resistor" is physically connected between the coil's + post and the primary winding of the coil . . . actually a "step-up" transformer.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 12-05-2008 at 11:47 AM. Reason: add info about ir-coils


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  22. #40
    '72 Opel GT (Sara) My location newman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldopelguy View Post
    ...That cup holds enough fuel for the engine to run for several seconds and it's level is replenished by the fuel pump. A noticable failure of the ignition module would be on the order of individual engine revolutions, a very small portion of a second, by comparison.
    Makes sense - thanks!
    '72 Opel GT (Fireglow Orange) "Sara"

    Major Mods: Weber Carb, High Compression Pistons, Electronic Ignition, Custom CAI, Sprint Manifold,
    Enhanced Suspension (Anti-Sway Bars / Koni Reds / Sport Springs), "Big" Brake Package with 22mm Booster / MC, 15x8" Wheels and Toyo RA-1 Tires, XM Radio

    Restoration Thread
    Comments Thread

    Other Cars:
    '09 Pontiac G8 GT (Panther Black) "Jet"
    '06 Pontiac Solstice (Envious Green) "Mina"
    '99 Oldsmobile Intrigue GLS (Black Onyx) "Raven"

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