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  1. #41
    GTer My location pecje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post


    Second row is Bosch blue coil, or any internal resistance coil, correctly connected and triggered by points or correctly wired e-trigger with all relevant voltages listed . . . note that the coil does not get a voltage boost during 'start'!
    Connected everything as described in the second row for my H-S e-trigger and blue Bosch coil. Took the car for a spin yesterday. The engine purrs like a kitten at 850 revs/min and growls like a lion when stepping on the throttle. Thanks OTTO ! (and Erick for the translation) Another satisfied customer of OpelGT.com !
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-20-2008 at 12:58 PM.
    Definitely EX-member of the MWTE! © Mr. Corey Suggs

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  3. #42
    Detroit,where my home was My location 2 Fast 4 U's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecje View Post
    Connected everything as described in the second row for my H-S e-trigger and blue Bosch coil. Took the car for a spin yesterday. The engine purrs like a kitten at 850 revs/min and growls like a lion when stepping on the throttle. Thanks OTTO ! (and Erick for the translation) Another satisfied customer of OpelGT.com !
    Graag gedaan, you are welcome
    Opel Ascona;
    Only built from 1970 - 1975




    Understeer: The front of the car hits the wall,
    Oversteer: The rear of the car hits the wall,
    Horsepower: How fast the car hits the wall,
    Torque: How far the car pushes the wall.

  4. #43
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Thumbs upAdded secondary voltages to chart . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pecje View Post
    Connected everything as described in the second row for my H-S e-trigger and blue Bosch coil. Took the car for a spin yesterday. The engine purrs like a kitten at 850 revs/min and growls like a lion when stepping on the throttle. Thanks OTTO ! (and Erick for the translation) Another satisfied customer of OpelGT.com !
    Graag gedaan, you are welcome
    Het zelfde van mij . . . same here!

    I went back and added the coil secondary ignition voltages (bobine hoge spanning) which fires the plugs. This directly shows how much a few volts more or less at the coil primary + connection affect the secondary high voltage that fires the plugs!

    The lower two illustrations in the third column, the way you had it connected originally, Patrick, show that you were not only firing your plugs with only 2/3 (8KV) the designed spark output of the coil (12KV), but were also triggering the coil with only 3/4 (+9V) of the designed e-trigger voltage (+12V)! :banghead:

    Anyway, glad it helped make things a little clearer for you, Patrick, and now Erick can fully explain it to anyone there . . . and in Dutch!
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-19-2008 at 10:23 AM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

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  6. #44
    Detroit,where my home was My location 2 Fast 4 U's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post

    .......and now Erick can fully explain it to anyone there . . . and in Dutch!
    right, blame it on me
    Opel Ascona;
    Only built from 1970 - 1975




    Understeer: The front of the car hits the wall,
    Oversteer: The rear of the car hits the wall,
    Horsepower: How fast the car hits the wall,
    Torque: How far the car pushes the wall.

  7. #45
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    .......and now Erick can fully explain it to anyone there . . . and in Dutch!
    right, blame it on me
    . . . not blaming you, Erick, just "passing the buck!"


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  8. #46
    Detroit,where my home was My location 2 Fast 4 U's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    .......Erick can fully explain it to anyone there . . . and in Dutch!
    right, blame it on me
    . . . not blaming you, Erick, just "passing the buck!"
    I know Otto, just teasing
    Opel Ascona;
    Only built from 1970 - 1975




    Understeer: The front of the car hits the wall,
    Oversteer: The rear of the car hits the wall,
    Horsepower: How fast the car hits the wall,
    Torque: How far the car pushes the wall.

  9. #47
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    ok folks a follow up: I received my new replacement ignition kit from hot spark today, part no. 3BOS4U1. Took me about 5 minutes - installed, set timing, done.

    This newer replacement I received was wonderful. It stands a bit taller, so I could not use the original dust cover that goes inside under the rotor. No gap to set, it mounts rigid on the pin out of distributor with one screw, exactly like the original points did. You just put it in and, according to hot spark, the resistive wire makes no difference, so I left mine in.

    I read the post about the resistive wire and voltages and all that, but this is using the original set up and with resistive wire, module works just fine as far as the 12 volts at the distributor coil - well the car ran fine with the points and all this does is eliminate them - so as long as it fires, voltage is of no concern. The upside . . . no maintenance and it idles excellently compared to mechanical points.

    buy it, install it, change nothing, except maybe timing, and be done with it.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-21-2008 at 11:12 AM.



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

  10. #48
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    ExclamationNo picture?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Texas View Post
    ok folks a follow up: I received my new replacement today part no. ignition kit 3BOS4U1 from hot spark. Took me about 5 minutes installed set timing done. This newer replacement I received was wonderful. It stands a bit taller so I could not use the original dust cover that goes inside under the rotor. No gap to set it mounts rigid in the pin out of distributor with one screw exactly like the original points did. You just put it in and, according to hot spark the resistive wire makes no difference, so I left mine in. I read the post about the resistive wire and voltages and all that but this is using the original set up and with resistive wire, module works just fine as far as the 12 volts at the distributor coil well the car ran fine with the points and all this does is eliminate the points so as long as it fires, voltage is of no concern. The upside no maintenance and it idles excellent compared to mechanical points.

    buy it, install it, change nothing, except maybe timing, and be done with it.
    . . . uh, so why no installed picture?

    . . . oh, beg to differ, but it does! The Hot-Spark module is a direct copy of the Pertronix unit, designed and patented to run on a full +12V! Will the Pertronix/Hot-Spark trigger function at +9V? . . . absolutely, just not with the designed trigger performance and, likely, its designed-in reliability factor!

    The Pertronix patent lapsed allowing Hot-Spark to copy it verbatim without requiring licensing fee payments. It is the sole reason Hot-Spark can offer it at a discounted price - no R&D costs, just manufacturing. It is also the reason why they wouldn't redesign it to trigger at the same performance level at +9V! No matter how you slice it, if you operate either trigger at +9V, you're getting only 75% performance and efficiency and you're just not taking full advantage of your decision to change to electronic triggering in the first place.

    All of that said, are you using a "stock" or "non-IR" coil or any aftermarket "IR" (internal resistance) coil with your coil's "stock" R-wiring? All of the things pointed out in my third column blue coil wiring diagrams still apply, no matter what Hot-Spark claims!
    Last edited by tekenaar; 09-21-2008 at 12:45 PM.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  11. #49
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    . . . uh, so why no installed picture?

    . . . oh, beg to differ, but it does! The Hot-Spark module is a direct copy of the Pertronix unit, designed and patented to run on a full +12V! Will the Pertronix/Hot-Spark trigger function at +9V? . . . absolutely, just not with the designed trigger performance and, likely, its designed-in reliability factor!

    :
    well I'm sorry the people who build these devices says it makes no difference and it does not you are replacing your stock points and in addition leaving resistive network in place for some protection. As far as the blue coils it works with those as well but I have no endorsement only real life I did many situations and the end result is you are replacing only the mechanical points with the electronic firing device it either works or it doesn''t I did the installation and am very very pleased and thats is what I passed on "real life" I just installed and it works great and for newbies looking for an alternative this is it direct replacement and no second guessing ... I've seen the post about the voltages and you know what if it was that critical the system would of been revised when running mechanical points, that option was always there, but take in mind when left to just a coil and a firing system you leave the key on you are going to blow the lid off the coil or damage the circuit. I believe in KISS keep it simple. This is a direct replacement for your mechanical points no theories or what, if you just take the points out and ad the module original safety design for the coil is in place and you have a excellant ignition source no maintenance and no gaps to set just install it.



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

  12. #50
    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter My location tekenaar's Avatar
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    QuestionMissed the point . . . where's the pic?

    Well, you missed the point entirely, but, it's your car, run it the way you want . . . the consequences will be yours too, after all.

    . . . still interested in seeing a pic of your particular installed unit, Dennis, if you'd care to share with the rest of us . . . the mounting method appears to be a bit different from rest.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."

  13. #51
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    Well, you missed the point entirely, but, it's your car, run it the way you want . . . the consequences will be yours too, after all.

    . . . still interested in seeing a pic of your particular installed unit, Dennis, if you'd care to share with the rest of us . . . the mounting method appears to be a bit different from rest.
    Sorry working days this week,I would be happy to share....

    Here are some pictures hope they are clear enough. The module came mounted to the back plate as you can see, on the bottom it has the protrusion to fit in the pin out of the distributor. the other hole is where it is tightened in place by the original point screw. The connections on the coil as you can see are red on supplied voltage + and black on the negative terminal - the green wire on the Plus side is the resistive wire and the white is the 12 volt feed from the starter solenoid for cranking purposes the other wire on the negative side is for the tach. All you have to do is remove points replace with this module clip leads on coil put cap back on check timing (mine was still right on) and turn the key.

    I did not miss your point and actually from your information I found that my first coil was a blue bosch with internal resistance. The coil in this picture is not that one this is a stock coil, meaning I have the same type on a few of the other cars so it is an assumption that this is a original type stock coil.

    As you can see the only thing that was changed was the module for the mechanical points that is why I said it makes no difference, factory said it was ok and they were right. The information you supplied is correct just more than an average person would need to know IMHO. If they have problems the information and diagrams you supplied can help in identifing the coil (I did put blue bosch on it and it ran fine also but that was not recommended by the factory only the resistive wire was ok'd so I have the stock coil, pictured, in my car..

    You know as well as I do that electronics can be made to perform outside the manufacturers regions. The stock ignition uses 12.4 to crank and after running puts out between 13.8 and 14 plus volts depending on the load. Not precise but to charge a battery you have to put more voltage then the static charge on battery to get current flow. The only purpose of the resistive wire and feel free to correct is to protect the coil in the original mechanical point system. I would not recommend to anyone to remove that without adding another protective device in it's place. If the unit requires a full 12 volts to operate then attach another lead to it to the battery plus voltage somewhere that the key turns on. If the range of operation, and just guessing here, they won't give out detailed schematics so talking about a black box here, the range is 9 to 15 volts then why worry about it if it fires and works correctly. As your example shows if you do happen to have a resistive type coil such as blue bosch then yes your adding extra resistance and getting nothing back for it then remove the resistive lead or change coil to a external ballast type.
    Just an added note this is day two 150 miles later I drove to work this morning once I got to open road past the speed traps I leveled it out at 95 for 10 miles or so and when I came to an idle at the security gate it sat and bumped along at 900 rpm I'm very impressed and the cost, relative to other similar products I bought 4 saved me enough money, the 4 didn't cost me anything.
    Hope this is helpful and pictures are clear enough.

    This is for the "Hot Spark" electronic module
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by kwilford; 09-23-2008 at 12:11 AM.



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

  14. #52
    Tennessean Site Supporter My location hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekenaar View Post
    . . . still interested in seeing a pic of your particular installed unit, Dennis, if you'd care to share with the rest of us . . . the mounting method appears to be a bit different from rest.
    Looks to be "slightly" simpler. It doesn't appear to use the adapter plate with the two studs that the Pertronix unit uses. Is gap adjustable?

    Harold

  15. #53
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr View Post
    Looks to be "slightly" simpler. It doesn't appear to use the adapter plate with the two studs that the Pertronix unit uses. Is gap adjustable?

    Harold
    I noticed when I took it out for the pictures last night and if you look at the picture you can see faint rub marks on the plastic inside the curved part of the module. There is no adjustment what I'm going to do is slightly elongate the mounting screw hole and move it just a hair, enough to prevent that. It's not a problem, already put a couple hundred miles on it this way and I'm not sure why it rubbed I probable need to check side play on distributor shaft this weekend, just another item to add to the list.



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

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    Tennessean Site Supporter My location hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Texas View Post
    I noticed when I took it out for the pictures last night and if you look at the picture you can see faint rub marks on the plastic inside the curved part of the module. There is no adjustment what I'm going to do is slightly elongate the mounting screw hole and move it just a hair, enough to prevent that. It's not a problem, already put a couple hundred miles on it this way and I'm not sure why it rubbed I probable need to check side play on distributor shaft this weekend, just another item to add to the list.

    That or you may want to try a different brand of rotor button. The Bosch and Beck Arnley type tend to have thicker shafts than the American versions like Niehoff, Standard Ignition, Echlin, etc.

    Harold

  17. #55
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr View Post
    That or you may want to try a different brand of rotor button. The Bosch and Beck Arnley type tend to have thicker shafts than the American versions like Niehoff, Standard Ignition, Echlin, etc.

    Harold
    Excellent, at least someone is awake, I forgot about the rotor button and thats where the rub marks are, I just did a quick removal last night for the picture and saw the scuffs in the picture when I loaded them. I was trying to figure it out this morning at work how in the world it could of rubbed I knew it had a gap when I put it in there. I thought it was the magnetic ring but looking at the picture you hit the nail on the head....thanks. Scratches that problem off of list.



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

  18. #56
    Opeler JAson Barkmeier's Avatar
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    Another Question

    Love to keep this post alive because there is a ton of great info here. Just got my replacement HotSpark module in the mail (the first one was bad) Working on a 69 1.1 gt. Looking over the wiring diagrams above for correct and incorrect. (thanks again btw) Does the 12v boost wire from the starter really do anything at all in the case of the Blue internal resistance coil. Near as I can tell you don't really need a boost at start time if you have a full 12v all the time anyway?

    Additionally my replacement hot spark is different than the first one. It is one piece and came with heat sink compound or some type of white grease to set it in place with. Not sure if it's for heat or conductivity. From looking at the drawing there should be no direct ground on the minus side so I suppose that means it is grounding through the dizzy like points did? Which should mean that the grounding strap IS still pretty important. I thought I read on this or another post where someone said it was not important with a points replacement. (I could be wrong... I have been reading a lot and it kinda starts to run together)

    One last question. My neg side has two identical green wires on it. I believe one is for the tach but have no idea what the second may be for although it is coming from the original factory wiring. Any ideas? On my car the positive side has the one clear resistor wire and a thicker brown wire which I assume to be the 12v starting boost from the starter. And how's this for funny... I replaced the coil sometime in the 80's and apparently wired it in backwards with the two greens on the positive side and the clear and brown on the negative side. I can't remember which side the points were wired to but it ran that way for 20 years.

    So the upshot is I'm thinking of just wiring the one 12v direct lead from the fuse box as recommended except I'm planning to use it as a total replacement for both the 12v boost feed from the starter and the clear resistor wire. Any thoughts?

  19. #57
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAson Barkmeier View Post
    .

    So the upshot is I'm thinking of just wiring the one 12v direct lead from the fuse box as recommended except I'm planning to use it as a total replacement for both the 12v boost feed from the starter and the clear resistor wire. Any thoughts?
    If you only run one switched feed for coil no voltage will be on the coil until the key is in the run position. Meaning the whole time your starter is turning over the engine it will not see any spark until the key goes to the run position. I believe it is the left terminal on starter solenoid (looking into engine compartment it will be the one closest to the block) that powers the coil during cranking be sure that wire is put back and save your starter.



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

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    Ok wow! I read all this some of it got me alittle turned around. I plan on changing out the points stuff just as soon as I can. I have been trying to put all of this info in easy terms so I can get it straight. So here we go.

    12v feed is has a resistor in-line to the coil to drop the voltage? Meaning that to get 12v to the pick up in the dizzy you need to "tap" into the wire before the resistor. Is that all correct?

    Also why not use a coil with a internal resistor and eliminate the resistor in-line to the coil? Would that work? I know it may not really be something needed but can upgrading the coil with a internal resistor gain me anything? Do they make better IR coils that ER coils? From what I understand you need 3.0 ohms resistance is that correct?

    Anyway I hope that I haven't futher confused the matter. Just thought I would ask some questions. Thanks

  21. #59
    Member My location Dennis Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpelNewb View Post
    Ok wow! I read all this some of it got me alittle turned around. I plan on changing out the points stuff just as soon as I can. I have been trying to put all of this info in easy terms so I can get it straight. So here we go.

    12v feed is has a resistor in-line to the coil to drop the voltage? Meaning that to get 12v to the pick up in the dizzy you need to "tap" into the wire before the resistor. Is that all correct?


    Also why not use a coil with a internal resistor and eliminate the resistor in-line to the coil? Would that work? I know it may not really be something needed but can upgrading the coil with a internal resistor gain me anything? Do they make better IR coils that ER coils? From what I understand you need 3.0 ohms resistance is that correct?

    Anyway I hope that I haven't futher confused the matter. Just thought I would ask some questions. Thanks
    Read tekenaar post on the coils he did a great job of identifying and drawing out proper ways to connect.
    All I can add to this topic is be sure you match the coil ohms to the type electronic replacement as manuafacturer recommends. I have put over a 1000 miles now on my 73 Gt since correcting my issues with a mismatch and I am very well pleased with the Hot Spark set up and the price is just a bit more than what you are going to pay for the points and condenser anyway.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 12-02-2008 at 02:05 AM. Reason: is almost as much as . . . the points and condenser . . .



    If everything seems to be going well you have obviously overlooked something.:banghead:

  22. #60
    Opeler JAson Barkmeier's Avatar
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    "If you only run one switched feed for coil no voltage will be on the coil until the key is in the run position."

    Yeah ok I get ya... for some reason I thought the starter switch would have kept run voltage on during the start time but I am obviously mistaken. At any rate I finished the reinstall of my replacement hot spark lastnight... and after some quick review reading on timing/Top Dead Center I got it all back together. I had had the Dizzy out for so long I forgot what position it was in when pulled. Anyway I hooked up the hot-spark using the existing wires (clear resistor) and everything works VERY well. I will road test tonight and give the engine a chance to warm up.

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