Electronic Ignition Question

[Dennis Texas]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Well, you missed the point entirely, but, it's your car, run it the way you want . . . the consequences will be yours too, after all. . . . still interested in seeing a pic of your particular installed unit, Dennis, if you'd care to share with the rest of us . . . the mounting method appears to be a bit different from rest.

Sorry working days this week,I would be happy to share....

Here are some pictures hope they are clear enough. The module came mounted to the back plate as you can see, on the bottom it has the protrusion to fit in the pin out of the distributor. the other hole is where it is tightened in place by the original point screw. The connections on the coil as you can see are red on supplied voltage + and black on the negative terminal - the green wire on the Plus side is the resistive wire and the white is the 12 volt feed from the starter solenoid for cranking purposes the other wire on the negative side is for the tach. All you have to do is remove points replace with this module clip leads on coil put cap back on check timing (mine was still right on) and turn the key.

I did not miss your point and actually from your information I found that my first coil was a blue bosch with internal resistance. The coil in this picture is not that one this is a stock coil, meaning I have the same type on a few of the other cars so it is an assumption that this is a original type stock coil.

As you can see the only thing that was changed was the module for the mechanical points that is why I said it makes no difference, factory said it was ok and they were right. The information you supplied is correct just more than an average person would need to know IMHO. If they have problems the information and diagrams you supplied can help in identifing the coil (I did put blue bosch on it and it ran fine also but that was not recommended by the factory only the resistive wire was ok'd so I have the stock coil, pictured, in my car..

You know as well as I do that electronics can be made to perform outside the manufacturers regions. The stock ignition uses 12.4 to crank and after running puts out between 13.8 and 14 plus volts depending on the load. Not precise but to charge a battery you have to put more voltage then the static charge on battery to get current flow. The only purpose of the resistive wire and feel free to correct is to protect the coil in the original mechanical point system. I would not recommend to anyone to remove that without adding another protective device in it's place. If the unit requires a full 12 volts to operate then attach another lead to it to the battery plus voltage somewhere that the key turns on. If the range of operation, and just guessing here, they won't give out detailed schematics so talking about a black box here, the range is 9 to 15 volts then why worry about it if it fires and works correctly. As your example shows if you do happen to have a resistive type coil such as blue bosch then yes your adding extra resistance and getting nothing back for it then remove the resistive lead or change coil to a external ballast type.
Just an added note this is day two 150 miles later I drove to work this morning once I got to open road past the speed traps I leveled it out at 95 for 10 miles or so and when I came to an idle at the security gate it sat and bumped along at 900 rpm I'm very impressed and the cost, relative to other similar products I bought 4 saved me enough money, the 4 didn't cost me anything.
Hope this is helpful and pictures are clear enough.

This is for the "Hot Spark" electronic module

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . still interested in seeing a pic of your particular installed unit, Dennis, if you'd care to share with the rest of us . . . the mounting method appears to be a bit different from rest.

Looks to be "slightly" simpler. It doesn't appear to use the adapter plate with the two studs that the Pertronix unit uses. Is gap adjustable?

Harold

[Dennis Texas]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr Looks to be "slightly" simpler. It doesn't appear to use the adapter plate with the two studs that the Pertronix unit uses. Is gap adjustable? Harold

I noticed when I took it out for the pictures last night and if you look at the picture you can see faint rub marks on the plastic inside the curved part of the module. There is no adjustment what I'm going to do is slightly elongate the mounting screw hole and move it just a hair, enough to prevent that. It's not a problem, already put a couple hundred miles on it this way and I'm not sure why it rubbed I probable need to check side play on distributor shaft this weekend, just another item to add to the list.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by Dennis Texas I noticed when I took it out for the pictures last night and if you look at the picture you can see faint rub marks on the plastic inside the curved part of the module. There is no adjustment what I'm going to do is slightly elongate the mounting screw hole and move it just a hair, enough to prevent that. It's not a problem, already put a couple hundred miles on it this way and I'm not sure why it rubbed I probable need to check side play on distributor shaft this weekend, just another item to add to the list.

That or you may want to try a different brand of rotor button. The Bosch and Beck Arnley type tend to have thicker shafts than the American versions like Niehoff, Standard Ignition, Echlin, etc.

Harold

[Dennis Texas]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr That or you may want to try a different brand of rotor button. The Bosch and Beck Arnley type tend to have thicker shafts than the American versions like Niehoff, Standard Ignition, Echlin, etc. Harold

Excellent, at least someone is awake, I forgot about the rotor button and thats where the rub marks are, I just did a quick removal last night for the picture and saw the scuffs in the picture when I loaded them. I was trying to figure it out this morning at work how in the world it could of rubbed I knew it had a gap when I put it in there. I thought it was the magnetic ring but looking at the picture you hit the nail on the head....thanks. Scratches that problem off of list.

[JAson Barkmeier]

Love to keep this post alive because there is a ton of great info here. Just got my replacement HotSpark module in the mail (the first one was bad) Working on a 69 1.1 gt. Looking over the wiring diagrams above for correct and incorrect. (thanks again btw) Does the 12v boost wire from the starter really do anything at all in the case of the Blue internal resistance coil. Near as I can tell you don't really need a boost at start time if you have a full 12v all the time anyway?

Additionally my replacement hot spark is different than the first one. It is one piece and came with heat sink compound or some type of white grease to set it in place with. Not sure if it's for heat or conductivity. From looking at the drawing there should be no direct ground on the minus side so I suppose that means it is grounding through the dizzy like points did? Which should mean that the grounding strap IS still pretty important. I thought I read on this or another post where someone said it was not important with a points replacement. (I could be wrong... I have been reading a lot and it kinda starts to run together)

One last question. My neg side has two identical green wires on it. I believe one is for the tach but have no idea what the second may be for although it is coming from the original factory wiring. Any ideas? On my car the positive side has the one clear resistor wire and a thicker brown wire which I assume to be the 12v starting boost from the starter. And how's this for funny... I replaced the coil sometime in the 80's and apparently wired it in backwards with the two greens on the positive side and the clear and brown on the negative side. I can't remember which side the points were wired to but it ran that way for 20 years.

So the upshot is I'm thinking of just wiring the one 12v direct lead from the fuse box as recommended except I'm planning to use it as a total replacement for both the 12v boost feed from the starter and the clear resistor wire. Any thoughts?

[Dennis Texas]

Originally Posted by JAson Barkmeier . So the upshot is I'm thinking of just wiring the one 12v direct lead from the fuse box as recommended except I'm planning to use it as a total replacement for both the 12v boost feed from the starter and the clear resistor wire. Any thoughts?

If you only run one switched feed for coil no voltage will be on the coil until the key is in the run position. Meaning the whole time your starter is turning over the engine it will not see any spark until the key goes to the run position. I believe it is the left terminal on starter solenoid (looking into engine compartment it will be the one closest to the block) that powers the coil during cranking be sure that wire is put back and save your starter.

[OpelNewb]

Ok wow! I read all this some of it got me alittle turned around. I plan on changing out the points stuff just as soon as I can. I have been trying to put all of this info in easy terms so I can get it straight. So here we go.

12v feed is has a resistor in-line to the coil to drop the voltage? Meaning that to get 12v to the pick up in the dizzy you need to "tap" into the wire before the resistor. Is that all correct?

Also why not use a coil with a internal resistor and eliminate the resistor in-line to the coil? Would that work? I know it may not really be something needed but can upgrading the coil with a internal resistor gain me anything? Do they make better IR coils that ER coils? From what I understand you need 3.0 ohms resistance is that correct?

Anyway I hope that I haven't futher confused the matter. Just thought I would ask some questions. Thanks

[Dennis Texas]

Originally Posted by OpelNewb Ok wow! I read all this some of it got me alittle turned around. I plan on changing out the points stuff just as soon as I can. I have been trying to put all of this info in easy terms so I can get it straight. So here we go. 12v feed is has a resistor in-line to the coil to drop the voltage? Meaning that to get 12v to the pick up in the dizzy you need to "tap" into the wire before the resistor. Is that all correct? Also why not use a coil with a internal resistor and eliminate the resistor in-line to the coil? Would that work? I know it may not really be something needed but can upgrading the coil with a internal resistor gain me anything? Do they make better IR coils that ER coils? From what I understand you need 3.0 ohms resistance is that correct? Anyway I hope that I haven't futher confused the matter. Just thought I would ask some questions. Thanks

Read tekenaar post on the coils he did a great job of identifying and drawing out proper ways to connect.
All I can add to this topic is be sure you match the coil ohms to the type electronic replacement as manuafacturer recommends. I have put over a 1000 miles now on my 73 Gt since correcting my issues with a mismatch and I am very well pleased with the Hot Spark set up and the price is just a bit more than what you are going to pay for the points and condenser anyway.

[JAson Barkmeier]

"If you only run one switched feed for coil no voltage will be on the coil until the key is in the run position."

Yeah ok I get ya... for some reason I thought the starter switch would have kept run voltage on during the start time but I am obviously mistaken. At any rate I finished the reinstall of my replacement hot spark lastnight... and after some quick review reading on timing/Top Dead Center I got it all back together. I had had the Dizzy out for so long I forgot what position it was in when pulled. Anyway I hooked up the hot-spark using the existing wires (clear resistor) and everything works VERY well. I will road test tonight and give the engine a chance to warm up.

[Dennis Texas]

Just wanted to add a follow up... after getting the correct electronic module in place ( be sure the module matches the coil you are using or ask Hot Spark for recommendations they are very responsive to emails), the car has run excellent for 2000 miles now I did get wrong module in the first installation but after correcting and driving it I believe this is one of the best things you can do to improve reliability of the opel ignition for just under 40 bucks (not much more than an original replacement set of points and condenser and it bolts right on. )

[JAson Barkmeier]

Opled' to work today. Got the timing set right still running pretty good with the replacement hot spark mod. I am still running with the clear resistor wire in place and IR coil. I will take time to test a direct wire feed for a few weeks and see if it changes performance at all.

[Redskinsjbs]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Goedzo, Erick, dat is het precies . . . well done, Erick, that's it exactly . . . Patrick, maybe this will help a bit more . . . misschien zal dit nog wel een beetje meer helpen . . . First column is stock coil, or any non-resistor coil - i.e. Bosch red coil, correctly connected and triggered by points or correctly wired e-trigger with all relevant voltages listed . . . Second column is Bosch blue coil, or any internal resistance coil, correctly connected and triggered by points or correctly wired e-trigger with all relevant voltages listed . . . note that the coil does not get a voltage boost during 'start'! Third column is commonly, but incorrectly, wired Bosch blue coil and incorrectly wired e-trigger . . . e-trigger is powered by only +9V (75% design voltage) during 'key on/run' condition and ignition is further hampered by coil's +6V (50%) actual operating voltage, regardless of trigger method used! This is what I meant by, " . . . none of these are good!" . . . alles nu verstaan? . . . everything now understood?

Ok, I just want to check BEFORE I turn the key. I have a Flamethrower 3 ohm internal resistance coil and an Ignitor I. Is this okay so far?

I connect the BLACK wire from the Ignitor to the negative (-) terminal on the coil.

I connect the RED wire from the Ignitor to the positive (+) terminal on the coil.

I connect the GREEN wire from the tachometer to the negative (-) terminal on the coil.

I connect the BLACK wire from the starter to the positive (+) terminal on the coil.

Finally, because I have an internally resisted coil, I replace the clear resistor wire with a normal wire and connect that to the positive (+) terminal on the coil.

Any objections?

TIA,

Jay

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs Ok, I just want to check BEFORE I turn the key. I have a Flamethrower 3 ohm internal resistance coil and an Ignitor I. Is this okay so far? I connect the BLACK wire from the Ignitor to the negative (-) terminal on the coil. I connect the RED wire from the Ignitor to the positive (+) terminal on the coil. I connect the GREEN wire from the tachometer to the negative (-) terminal on the coil. I connect the BLACK wire from the starter to the positive (+) terminal on the coil. Finally, because I have an internally resisted coil, I replace the clear resistor wire with a normal wire and connect that to the positive (+) terminal on the coil. Any objections? TIA, Jay

Yes . . . BEFORE I turn the key.

Yes . . . BLACK wire from the Ignitor.

Yes . . . RED wire from the Ignitor.

Yes . . . GREEN wire.

Yes . . . BLACK wire from the starter.

Yes . . . replace the clear resistor wire with a normal wire.

[Redskinsjbs]

Shweeeeeeeeet! Lets go crank this puppy!

[tcav]

Last November when I flew to Billings to pick up my newly purchased, on e-bay 73 GT Was not aware of the diffrent brands of electronic ign.modules so spent $40 and got the Hot Spark System along with one of their coils they recomended,was an easy purchase since it was listed on e-bay in the opel GT category.Now 8000 miles later the unit is still performing perfectlly without any problem whatsover.
but now Ive got myself convinced that I cannot live without a compufire system,So will be doing the upgrade the first week of November.
Will be posting photos soon of your Texas Opelers Fall meet that is comeing up October 23rd,24th and 25th.We will all be getting together in the Lake Livingston area,we are only about a 2.5 hour drive from the Louisiana border so if any of our neighdors would like to join use give me a shout.
tom kaye
tcavk@yahoo.com

[lowkey]

Two things:

1. I met the guy who sells them, he lives here in Austin, and his Fulltime job is driving a Cab. Nice enough fellow, but definitely not a "Car Guy."

2. Don't ever Jump Start, with a Pertronix, or Hot Spark. Instant fry, trust me.

If you have a dead battery, either charge it, or hook up the jumper cables, let the donor car run for a while until the dead car is charged up, then disconnect the cables, and start the dead car. If you try to do a regular Jump Start, you'll probably fry the Pertronix/Hot Spark unit.

I don't know exactly why, but from personal experience, it's a good way to fry it.

Everything else I read here is spot on.