An odd ignition problem

stosh562 · 10-19-2008

i have a 72 Ascona with 1.9, auto, A/C all stock. i did the tune up on it recently- couple months- and now it is starting to run rough...sort of. sometimes it runns fine other times it seems to develop a miss. it always starts and will continue to run but is very annoying. i have AC plugs, checked my gaps, checked point gap, ensured all wires are making full contact on terminals. i got it warmed up yesterday and decided to do a simple check and 1 by 1 pulled plug wires while it was running. got to #4 and expeirienced no change in idle. so i replaced with another new plug. fired right up sounded good, went for a ride and the stumble came back. tried that test again and got no change in idle when pulled #4 wire. my tune up included all the usual parts. something is changing as it runs and i don't know where to look. it accelerates ok, nothing out of the ordinary that i can tell. but it just doesn't idle smooth some of the time and i'm losing #4 cylinder. here's another oddity...i can't get a timing light to work on this car. tried 2 different ones -inductive and an older one. i can get the light to flash once or twice but not constant. i've been around the block a few times with V8's and my dad was an Opel mech back in the day and i've never incountered something as goofy as this. I know it's not a bad cam - it would run rough all the time, i don't think it is a bad gasket for the same reason. my choke might not be working quite right but that doesn't explain why i'm losing spark at #4. any clues?

2 Fast 4 U · 10-19-2008

I had a problem once,the car would start and idle fine but if the engine was warm it didn't run fine, looked at everything but couldn't find what was wrong, because when the engine cooled down a bit it would run fine again until the engine warmed up again, we finaly found what was wrong, the bolts from the intake and exhaust manifold from the #4 cylinder were loose, maybe you have the same problem.

stosh562 · 10-19-2008

well i did check those intake bolts and they were good. i went ahead and checked compression just to make sure, that was fine. i changed the condenser and then went back to another slightly used cap i had. that appears to mostly work. at least now i'm firing all 4 most of the time. so i'm thinking - get a new distributor, a Pertronix unit and i'm not sure what coils would work. factory original or maybe an older Mallory or....? anybody recomend some options there?

dallasmanta · 10-20-2008

check to see if you have any distributor shaft play by removing the cap and moving the shaft where the rotor fits back and forth. If this checks out ok remove the points and check for burned tips. If ok spray them down with some brake cleaner to remove any oils. Then take the cap and check to see if you have any carbon build up on the brass terminals. If so use a small file or sharp knife to make sure any carbon is removed and you have a shinny brass surface that will allow the spark to be delivered to the spark plugs. Take the brake cleaner and spray the inside of the cap to remove any oils that may have been on the contacts and terminals. Spray the rotor cap also and keep from touching the brass end and the center where the carbon contact touches to complete the circuit. IF all this checks out and your symptoms come back when warm you have a failing plug wire. Replace it with a new set. Make sure the plug wires are not touching any metal that can ground the spark before it gets to the plug. If you are using the original resistor plug wires that had the brown end caps that plugged on to the spark plugs you may have a resistor that has failed and breaks down when hot.

Hope this helps Ron

Gordy · 10-20-2008

Clean the outside of the distributor where the condensor screws on to it. I had a problem where the condensor was not grounding because of pitting on the dizzy housing and my points would burn out badly UNTIL the new condesor actually welded itself to the dizzy housing due to the arc that developed by it trying to ground itself. Then it would run fine again until I tuned it up the next time and removed the condensor and broke that welded "ground". It would backfire and miss as the points burned due to no grounding of the condensor.

10-19-2008	#1 (permalink)
stosh562 Opeler Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 45	Unanswered: An odd ignition problem i have a 72 Ascona with 1.9, auto, A/C all stock. i did the tune up on it recently- couple months- and now it is starting to run rough...sort of. sometimes it runns fine other times it seems to develop a miss. it always starts and will continue to run but is very annoying. i have AC plugs, checked my gaps, checked point gap, ensured all wires are making full contact on terminals. i got it warmed up yesterday and decided to do a simple check and 1 by 1 pulled plug wires while it was running. got to #4 and expeirienced no change in idle. so i replaced with another new plug. fired right up sounded good, went for a ride and the stumble came back. tried that test again and got no change in idle when pulled #4 wire. my tune up included all the usual parts. something is changing as it runs and i don't know where to look. it accelerates ok, nothing out of the ordinary that i can tell. but it just doesn't idle smooth some of the time and i'm losing #4 cylinder. here's another oddity...i can't get a timing light to work on this car. tried 2 different ones -inductive and an older one. i can get the light to flash once or twice but not constant. i've been around the block a few times with V8's and my dad was an Opel mech back in the day and i've never incountered something as goofy as this. I know it's not a bad cam - it would run rough all the time, i don't think it is a bad gasket for the same reason. my choke might not be working quite right but that doesn't explain why i'm losing spark at #4. any clues?

10-19-2008	#2 (permalink)
2 Fast 4 U Detroit,where my home was Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maria - Hoop, The Netherlands Posts: 2,216 Real Name: Erick Provided Answers: 5	I had a problem once,the car would start and idle fine but if the engine was warm it didn't run fine, looked at everything but couldn't find what was wrong, because when the engine cooled down a bit it would run fine again until the engine warmed up again, we finaly found what was wrong, the bolts from the intake and exhaust manifold from the #4 cylinder were loose, maybe you have the same problem. __________________ Opel Ascona; driving one is like living on the edge. Only built from 1970 - 1975

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10-19-2008	#3 (permalink)
stosh562 Opeler Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 45	well i did check those intake bolts and they were good. i went ahead and checked compression just to make sure, that was fine. i changed the condenser and then went back to another slightly used cap i had. that appears to mostly work. at least now i'm firing all 4 most of the time. so i'm thinking - get a new distributor, a Pertronix unit and i'm not sure what coils would work. factory original or maybe an older Mallory or....? anybody recomend some options there?

10-20-2008	#4 (permalink)
dallasmanta Dallasmanta Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: dallas texas Posts: 189 Real Name: Ron	check to see if you have any distributor shaft play by removing the cap and moving the shaft where the rotor fits back and forth. If this checks out ok remove the points and check for burned tips. If ok spray them down with some brake cleaner to remove any oils. Then take the cap and check to see if you have any carbon build up on the brass terminals. If so use a small file or sharp knife to make sure any carbon is removed and you have a shinny brass surface that will allow the spark to be delivered to the spark plugs. Take the brake cleaner and spray the inside of the cap to remove any oils that may have been on the contacts and terminals. Spray the rotor cap also and keep from touching the brass end and the center where the carbon contact touches to complete the circuit. IF all this checks out and your symptoms come back when warm you have a failing plug wire. Replace it with a new set. Make sure the plug wires are not touching any metal that can ground the spark before it gets to the plug. If you are using the original resistor plug wires that had the brown end caps that plugged on to the spark plugs you may have a resistor that has failed and breaks down when hot. Hope this helps Ron

10-20-2008	#5 (permalink)
Gordy Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loves Park, IL (Rockford area) Posts: 805	Clean the outside of the distributor where the condensor screws on to it. I had a problem where the condensor was not grounding because of pitting on the dizzy housing and my points would burn out badly UNTIL the new condesor actually welded itself to the dizzy housing due to the arc that developed by it trying to ground itself. Then it would run fine again until I tuned it up the next time and removed the condensor and broke that welded "ground". It would backfire and miss as the points burned due to no grounding of the condensor.

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