Lunched my distributor!

[CDN OpelNut]

Everything was going too well......

The 2.4 has been running like a top. I even managed to get a reasonable idle on the sidedraft Solex (immediately after buying a DCOE 45 to replace it )

Anyway, on my way home this evening I took a hard corner and **crunch** - engine died. I feared the worst like a broke a rod and something, but the engine turned with out any grinding and when trying to start, just wouldn't fire up and back-fired through the carb. It was like an ignition problem.

After an expensive tow I set about trying to figure it out. pulled the valve cover and plugs, timing chain was good and no problems in the valve train.

I pulled the distributor and it wouldn't spin without grinding - bingo.

I had modified the unit to limit the centrifugal advance by putting a set screw etc on the plates. (documented elsewhere)

At some point, the assembly had broke off and I think was lying in the bottom of the dizzy housing. The hard corner seems to have thrown it up into the rotating parts and got jammed. Bent the plates and basically toasted the unit.

I had a look at the components that I thought could be harmed by the sudden stop. The gear on the crank looks fine as do the mating gears on the dizzy shaft.

I also pulled the oil pump cover to look at those gears. They appear to be grinding away on each other and look quite worn and rough. Perhaps this is why my oil pressure it always pegged at 5.

Anyway. I thought it was going to be worse but I'll be replacing the OP gears and must find a new dizzy.

I think I will try to find a '75 unit without the advance. I had the vacuum advance disconnected anyway.

Anyone have a distributor kicking around?

[nhopel]

Got abunch of dist if you need one nothing newer than 73 if you want one let me know and I'll send one out

Dennis

[BQS4]

Corey;
I might have a 75 dist, let me check this weekend.

[tekenaar]

. . . crap, Corey! How's the fresh air plumbing coming along?

[CDN OpelNut]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . crap, Corey! How's the fresh air plumbing coming along?

Otto - the Weber is sitting at the Post Office. I'll be doing the CAI when I put the DCOE on. It might be a winter project now that the Solex seems to be idling OK.

Corey

[CDN OpelNut]

Originally Posted by BQS4 Corey; I might have a 75 dist, let me check this weekend.

Originally Posted by nhopel Got abunch of dist if you need one nothing newer than 73 if you want one let me know and I'll send one out Dennis

Thanks guys

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut Otto - the Weber is sitting at the Post Office. I'll be doing the CAI when I put the DCOE on. It might be a winter project now that the Solex seems to be idling OK. Corey

. . . understand that! . . . one thing at a time anyway and no sense in fooling with something that 'works' for now, right!

[Gary]

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut .....I also pulled the oil pump cover to look at those gears. They appear to be grinding away on each other and look quite worn and rough.

That's interesting!
Question: How did you prime the oil pump after the rebuild? (I use an old dizzy with the drive gear removed) I've always been leary about the screwdriver bit in the drill method as I feared wiping out the bushing in the timing cover if everything was not centered.

Also, did you check your oil to see if there are any metal shavings in it.

[wrench459]

Wow how very sdrowkcab! This post si!

[CDN OpelNut]

Originally Posted by Gary That's interesting! Question: How did you prime the oil pump after the rebuild? (I use an old dizzy with the drive gear removed) I've always been leary about the screwdriver bit in the drill method as I feared wiping out the bushing in the timing cover if everything was not centered. Also, did you check your oil to see if there are any metal shavings in it.

I primed the pump with the big screwdriver in the drill method. I remember that I thought it seemed a bit scratchy at the time but I had nothing to compare it to.

The oil in the pump house was a bit grainy. I'll change it all out before I get it going again.

Talked to Gil today and new gears are unavailable so I'll polish whats there and reinstall.

Rallybob's original recommendation was for 33-35 degrees of total advance for my setup. 8-10 at idle and 25 mechanical. Given the specs, I think a 73, 74, or 75 dizzy would be acceptable.

1973 - 28-32 mechanical advance
1-5 vacuum
29-37 degrees total

1974 - 28-32 mechanical advance
1-3 vacuum
29-35 degrees total

1975 - 25 mechanical advance
5 degrees static timing
No vacuum advance unit
30 degrees total

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut Talked to Gil today and new gears are unavailable so I'll polish whats there and reinstall.

Paeco.com lists gear sets for the Opel at $175 a kit. I believe they offer high volume pump kits.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by Gary ..... I've always been leary about the screwdriver bit in the drill method as I feared wiping out the bushing in the timing cover if everything was not centered.

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut I primed the pump with the big screwdriver in the drill method. I remember that I thought it seemed a bit scratchy at the time but I had nothing to compare it to.

Corey - Dig a little deeper. Look at the oil pump gear housing. Are there unusual wear marks from the gears? Does the drive gear have any side to side movement?

If that screwdriver bit elongated the bushing that centers the distributor shaft and pump gear, you will get a lot of movement which could cause the problems you have.

If the pump housing has deep scratches, I would change out the timing cover as you will have oil pressure problems. Don't jeopardize your rebuild!

[CDN OpelNut]

Originally Posted by Gary If that screwdriver bit elongated the bushing that centers the distributor shaft and pump gear, you will get a lot of movement which could cause the problems you have.

Thanks Gary - There is scoring on the walls of the pump housing which I will have to smooth out.

I cannot picture the bushing you are referring to. As far as a can see, the distributor shaft just fits into the drive gear. Where does any lateral movement come from when one gear has the shaft that slips into the tube and the short gear slides onto the post?

Do you have a diagram that shows the bushing?

Thanks

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut Thanks Gary - There is scoring on the walls of the pump housing which I will have to smooth out. Thanks

The pump moves the oil around the inside of the housing where your scoring is, NOT between the gears! Any extra clearance between the gears and the housing is going to result in some loss of pressure.

Harold

[Gary]

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut ...Do you have a diagram that shows the bushing? Thanks

Attached.

[dallasmanta]

Guys I bought a rebuilt HC 1.9 from a local guy and installed it in the manta last year and promptly started to hear some noise from the oil pump after about 500 miles. Took the lower cover off and checked to see what the issue was and noted the gears had started to scratch the lower cover ( source of noise when engine was warm). Went back to the motor I had taken out and inspected the oil pump and found that the main drive gear was pressed in with more of the shaft showing past the gear face. This allowed the gear to pivot and not ride on the lower plate causing the scratches. I reconditioned the plate and reset the main drive gear that has the shaft pushed on. I reinstalled everything and have about 6000 miles on the motor with no issues. I too use the long screw driver with drill to prime the motor. Ron

[CDN OpelNut]

Just got back from a weekend camping with my son - got a few minutes to take some pictures..

First, a shot of what happens when the distributor plate meets a nut at high speed. A bit blurry but you get the idea.

Second, a shot of the gears. You can see the extent of scoring on the outer edges, which is apparently normal (?!), and on the teeth, the pitting is probably what happens when all the grit gets in there.

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut Second, a shot of the gears. You can see the extent of scoring on the outer edges, which is apparently normal (?!)

I've never seen Opel oil pump gears that weren't scored but I've never seen new ones.
It's normal.

[tomking]

turn the gears around and run them on the new surfaces.

[CDN OpelNut]

Originally Posted by opelwasp Paeco.com lists gear sets for the Opel at $175 a kit. I believe they offer high volume pump kits.

Here's the e-mail I got from them....

Corey -

Thanks for your email. We are currently ou of the oil pump kits and don't know when we will have any more of them. 'Sorry.
- Carl at PAECO


----- Original Message -----
From: Sinclair, Corey
To: paeco@hiwaay.net
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:40 PM
Subject: Opel Oil Pump kit


Hi there – can you tell what is in the oil pump kit you have listed for Opel and what engine this fits. The gears for the cam-in-head 1.9l in-line 4 are hard to find.



Thanks,

[Gary]

Corey - Can you get a clear shot of the inside of the oil pump housing? How does the oil pump cover plate look? Any marks or deep scratches?

[CDN OpelNut]

Originally Posted by Gary Corey - Can you get a clear shot of the inside of the oil pump housing? How does the oil pump cover plate look? Any marks or deep scratches?

Not without taking the cover off - I'm trying to avoid that. I resurfaced the cover plate before putting the engine back together. There are now minor circular surface scratches on the plate - nothing severe.

[CDN OpelNut]

Thanks to Gene, I've got the new '75 distributor installed. Had a bit of clean up to do, but after the gunk was gone she spins nice!

I cleaned up the oil pump gears and packed them with assembly lube, put on a new gasket and buttoned it up.

Set the engine to #1 firing position and installed the distributor. Since I have the Compufire unit, I rotated the dist to #3 position as required.

I have no idea why, but just as with the original installation, the engine will not fire until the distributor is rotated clockwise at least 25-30 degrees. You can see in the picture where the canister ended up. It started parallel to the block in more or less stock position.

Once the engine is running, I can rotate the dist to achieve varying smooth operation

Should I just set it to where the idle is the smoothest or will this be too advanced? I did this but when I shut it down there was a lot of dieseling.

Without a timing light, what's the best way to set the timing?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut Should I just set it to where the idle is the smoothest or will this be too advanced? I did this but when I shut it down there was a lot of dieseling. Without a timing light, what's the best way to set the timing?

Please....buy or borrow a timing light. I've seen so many engines destroyed by 'guesstimating' ignition timing it's not even funny. Just last week my friend set the timing on his '69 Camaro (383 stroker with all forged bottom end), and he set it to 52 degrees because it 'sounded right'. I brought my timing light over and set it to 38 degrees before he drove it. It wouldn't have lasted a trip around the block!

[B-townOpeler]

It sounds to me like you are not allowing for the rotation of the dist as you install it. If you install the dist. with the cap off you will see the rotor turn about 20-30 degrees as you push it down in. This is because of the helical gears on the crank and dist. shaft. so you actually back the dist. rotor off about that amt. (20-30 degrees or so) before you install it and it will rotate to where it should be when it is in all the way.

It that what happened maybe?