Few more questions to get the Pertronix Install Right
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Thread: Few more questions to get the Pertronix Install Right

  1. #1
    Paul and Amanda Opelers
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    Few more questions to get the Pertronix Install Right

    Hi all -

    Couple questions as I get the Pertronix closer to running -

    1- The old Dust cover inside the Distributor - seems to interfere with the magnet - does it HAVE to be reused under the rotor? Or can one leave it out once the Pertronix assemblies are in?

    2- I seem to have a spaghetti of wires to figure out - I did see the nice schematic that someone made of the Pertronix, Coil, starter, Tach, Green Connector on fuse block, and the fuse block... so while I am tracing wires - I see one going to positive on the coil (now a 60Kv Flamethrower), and one should also come from the starter - but several wires are coming out of the Starter solenoid - I presume the wire on the left side (CW 90 degrees up from the starter body as you face the starter aft from the front of the car?)

    3- I read somewhere the fuseblock is on the "passenger side" - where, under the glovebox? No room in my GT.... I presume the accurate location is to the left of the steering column under the driver's dash, right?

    4- Is this also where that green connector is (where one runs from the negative on the Coil, then off to the tach)?... BTW I do have some loose green wire off the negative of the Coil, but I am not sure this is a Tach wire come loose... And - where on the fuse block IS this Green connector?

    Many thanks!!

    Paul (& Amanda - who is now diving in on this project to help LOL)
    Last edited by paul.catherine; 06-05-2016 at 02:52 AM.
    Paul and Amanda
    Arizona 73 Opel GT Owners

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    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Dust cover? Never heard of it. Leave it out.

    OK, so for the wiring...

    I don't know which schematic you are looking at but there's no nee to connect anything pertronix related to anything starter related.

    The Pertronix has THREE electical connections. Most think it has two but there are THREE.

    There's a red wire. There's a black wire. There's the natural ground of the unit when you bolt it in place.

    This is important. The Pertronix runs off of the red wire and the natural ground. It sends a signal through the black wire.

    When hooking up the Pertronix you need to hook the red wire up to ANY switched 12v supply. Do NOT connect it to the positive side of a coil on a factory setup. On a flamethrower you probably have 12v there so it should be OK.

    The black wire connects to the negative side of the coil in place of the green wire that came from the points. Nothing else changes.

    You may need to reroute the tach wire from the green wire, that used to go to the points, to the negative side of the coil.

    It's usually that simple.
    Last edited by hrcollinsjr; 06-05-2016 at 11:51 AM.
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    I did not use my dust cover on the reinstall.

    The fuse box in a GT is under the dash in the drivers foot well. It takes a bit of yoga to really get at it. While you are under there make sure it is fully bolted down. One side slides in to a gap and two bolts secure the other. The fuse box has a tendency to slip out of the slot and rest solely on the bolts - eventually the plastic breaks and your fuse box dangles. I was able to save mine before it broke!

    I also did this in the last year or so - I will dig around for the schematics I found useful....

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    Opeler
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    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/1b-igni...tml#post171769

    Post #35 should have all your different options. It saved my butt. I think you need the middle set up in the bottom 2 rows.

    This may be a gross over simplification but if you have a new aftermarket coil run a new line 12v line to the coil and remove the old clear internally ballasted wire (may look black now due to age). The drawings represent the ballasted wire as a wire and an EXTERNAL ballast - you will not see a ballast on your car. Good news is that if you run too little voltage you won't break anything - it won't work as well but won't break.

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    Opeler lowkey's Avatar
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    Hey Paul & Amanda.

    The Number One Rule with Pertronix is "Never Jump Start The Car."

    They never tell you that, and No, I don't know why it is, but if you ever do, it blows the little magic box.

    Now before you ask, "Then what do I do with a dead battery?" here's the answer.

    You hook up the jumper cables, charge the car for ten minutes, then disconnect the cables, and push start it in second gear.

    You may think I am crazy, you don't have to believe me, and you can be like a few other Opel owners who I installed a Pertronix for, who ignored my advice, and tried jump starting their car.

    Who then came back to me saying, "well I did not think it would hurt it," or, "this guy was trying to help me get it started, did not think it would hurt it," to which I would reply sadly, "Why Do You Think I said, NEVER JUMP START a Pertronix?"

    (Note, why is it, when an Opel Master Mechanic, tells an Opel Owner something, the advice is always ignored in favor of listening to some guy trying to help, or the clerk at the auto parts store?)

    Followed by the customary argument about who was paying for the new magic box.

    Hint, it wasn't me.
    I'm just another Opel Rehab Failure.

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    OpelGT.com Übermoderator My location kwilford's Avatar
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    There are several very good threads specifically dedicated to how to install a Pertronix. It sounds like you did some searching and reading already, so here are a few tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul.catherine View Post
    1- The old Dust cover inside the Distributor - seems to interfere with the magnet - does it HAVE to be reused under the rotor? Or can one leave it out once the Pertronix assemblies are in?
    I've seen the dust cover work with a Pertronix installed, although most dust covers have been long since discarded. I don't know why it would interfere with the magnet unless the magnet isn't fully installed on the dizzy shaft, but if it does, toss it

    Quote Originally Posted by paul.catherine View Post
    2- I seem to have a spaghetti of wires to figure out - I did see the nice schematic that someone made of the Pertronix, Coil, starter, Tach, Green Connector on fuse block, and the fuse block... so while I am tracing wires - I see one going to positive on the coil (now a 60Kv Flamethrower), and one should also come from the starter - but several wires are coming out of the Starter solenoid - I presume the wire on the left side (CW 90 degrees up from the starter body as you face the starter aft from the front of the car?)
    From the factory, the coil has two wires connected to the +'ve side of the coil (what you have may vary):

    i) A yellowish-coloured resistor wire, that is identified by having (originally, but now likely yellowed) clear insulation, from the "run" position on the fuse box; and

    ii) a black wire that is ultimately (through the harness) connected to the solenoid. That is a factory bypass around the resistor wire from the solenoid (the opposite terminal from the wire from the ignition start switch (or after-market relay) "start" wire, although I don't recall which side is which. That supplies the full 14 volts (yes Virginia, a car battery is approximately 14 volts when fully charged, NOT 12 volts) to the coil when the engine is being cranked.

    The -'ve side of the coil also has two wires connected to it:

    i) the ground wire from the points; these are typically green, but are part of the point package, so may be black

    ii) a green wire that feeds the rpm signal to the tachometer.

    Only two wires feed the Pertronix:

    a) red to switched non-resistor ignition power;

    Do NOT power the Pertronix only from the clear insulated resistor wire that is (or was) connected to the +'ve side of the coil, as the lower voltage may sometimes cause the Pertronix to malfunction.

    If you have a 3 ohm internal resistor coil (such as the correct Pertronix 3 ohm Flame Thrower coil, and not all Flame Throwers are 3 ohm), you can run a standard non-resistor wire from the same terminal on the fuse block as the clear resistor wire, and either disconnect the resistor wire, or leave it in place with both it and the new wire connected in parallel to the +'ve side of the coil.

    If you don't have a 3 ohm internal resistor coil (the factory tan-top Bosch is NOT a resistor coil), then you MUST leave the resistor wire to power the coil, but you still must run a new switched non-resistor ignition wire to directly power the Pertronix red wire.

    The black solenoid bypass wire must be left in place if the resistor wire is still the only other wire supplying the +'ve side of the coil.

    If you have a 3 ohm coil and have installed a bypass non-resistor wire, the solenoid wire is not required. But leaving it in place doesn't hurt, and anyone who screws around with the factory wiring more than they need to are destined to be vilified as the dastardly Previous Owner. Don't be that person.

    b) black to the -'ve side of the coil, replacing the points wire, which is also where the green tachometer wire connects.
    Leave it in place so both wires are connected.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul.catherine View Post
    3- I read somewhere the fuseblock is on the "passenger side" - where, under the glovebox? No room in my GT.... I presume the accurate location is to the left of the steering column under the driver's dash, right?
    Yes, driver's side, up to the left of the steering column. Um, is your car missing the fuse box? If so, wiring a Pertronix is the least of your worries. And you can start vilifying the PO without hesitation.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul.catherine View Post
    4- Is this also where that green connector is (where one runs from the negative on the Coil, then off to the tach)?... BTW I do have some loose green wire off the negative of the Coil, but I am not sure this is a Tach wire come loose... And - where on the fuse block IS this Green connector?
    Again, the green wire is the tach wire, and connects to the -'ve side of the coil. It doesn't connect to the fuse block; just through the connector from the coil to the tach through the wiring harness.

    HTH
    Last edited by kwilford; 06-11-2016 at 12:33 PM.
    Keith Wilford
    Working on the bare-metal, nut & bolt rotisserie restoration of my '71 Opel GT, and may have another GT to build next...

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    Paul and Amanda Opelers
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    The picture I was using...

    is this one from Swiftus (a pdf in 2009):

    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/attachm...7&d=1255388998

    from the thread here:
    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/1b-igni...esistance.html

    ...halfway down that thread or so... There are also great threads all over - Frank J had a great post on "12 steps for Electronic Opel Ignition", for example -

    the stuff posted here, above is also very helpful - thanks! I will continue with this (now that my driver's window works LOL) - the next chance I get to get to the distributor, and the driver side fusebox...

    And GREAT to know about jump starting!!! I was in fact low-charging the battery having sat a long time, and pondered jumping from its 200 amp setting when the pertronix was done - GREAT and TIMELY Warning! LOL!

    Thanks!
    Paul
    Last edited by paul.catherine; 06-06-2016 at 04:23 PM.
    Paul and Amanda
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    Paul and Amanda Opelers
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    Did I pick the right clear resistor wire??

    Per the attached photos, I think I got the right one... I mistakenly thought "third fuse in on the top, unfused side" was on the front side, forward toward the firewall... my wife pointed out it could be the driver aft direction - wherein I duh, see a very clear wire, close in....

    Please note the blue circles in each photo and let me know if I indeed got the correct wire LOL...

    Many thanks!

    Paul
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's the resistor wire.
    You can actually power the pertronix, quite nicely, from that spot.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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    Humans are not an endangered species!
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    Paul and Amanda Opelers
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    Cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    Yeah, that's the resistor wire.
    You can actually power the pertronix, quite nicely, from that spot.
    Thanks! - I then presume the square green blocky plug into te fuse block, you see in my 1st jpg - that's the block where the green tach wire comes in, per:

    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/attachm...7&d=1255388998

    Right?

    I presume it's a green wire into the corner of the plug from the coil, that then runs off to the tach from that corner... I dunno if that drawing shows to back or mating end of said green connector... I.e., the pin out or pin numbering, accurately... And I guess ideally, one should not have to mess with these wires.... But I have an odd lose green wire off the coil I am tracing.... So...


    Thanks!

    Paul
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  13. #11
    Member My location guyopel's Avatar
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    Paul, In your photos wiring to Amp gauge(red wire) at the fuse block shows signs of over heating due to a poor connection. You should replace connector and clean post.
    HTH
    John
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    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul.catherine View Post
    Thanks! - I then presume the square green blocky plug into te fuse block, you see in my 1st jpg - that's the block where the green tach wire comes in, per:

    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/attachm...7&d=1255388998

    Right?

    I presume it's a green wire into the corner of the plug from the coil, that then runs off to the tach from that corner... I dunno if that drawing shows to back or mating end of said green connector... I.e., the pin out or pin numbering, accurately... And I guess ideally, one should not have to mess with these wires.... But I have an odd lose green wire off the coil I am tracing.... So...


    Thanks!

    Paul
    Yes, the corner wire is the tach wire.
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    Humans are not an endangered species!
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    Quote Originally Posted by guyopel View Post
    Paul, In your photos wiring to Amp gauge(red wire) at the fuse block shows signs of over heating due to a poor connection. You should replace connector and clean post.
    HTH
    John
    John - I am guessing you mean the 5th wire in, red, on a screw post, second in from the clear resistor wire?

    If so, I saw that too and looked a lot at it... it LOOKS to me like that liquid tape for insulation, but you have a good point, and better safe than sorry since the shrink tube next to it looks a lot "nicer" - I will indeed look at that in detail, and r/r - thanks!

    Paul
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    Paul and Amanda Opelers
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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    Yes, the corner wire is the tach wire.
    :-) ...which corner? (ie, is the drawing looking at the face of the plug, or the back [wire side])

    When I look at the plug (lower right corner of this photo:
    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/attachm...4&d=1465626526
    there are many corner wires to worry about (so far none are green on this end at the box LOL [maybe I need to look harder])

    Thanks!
    Paul and Amanda
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    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul.catherine View Post
    :-) ...which corner? (ie, is the drawing looking at the face of the plug, or the back [wire side])

    When I look at the plug (lower right corner of this photo:
    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/attachm...4&d=1465626526
    there are many corner wires to worry about (so far none are green on this end at the box LOL [maybe I need to look harder])

    Thanks!
    In your picture it's the green wire you see on the green plug.
    The other green wire isn't shown there because it's on the other side of the brown wire. More information than you need though.
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    Humans are not an endangered species!
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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    In your picture it's the green wire you see on the green plug.
    The other green wire isn't shown there because it's on the other side of the brown wire. More information than you need though.


    duh - the green wire in my face - LOL, sorry, and thanks! :-)
    Paul and Amanda
    Arizona 73 Opel GT Owners

  19. #17
    Paul and Amanda Opelers
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    WELL - got a start... SORT of... Advice for Next Round post-Pertronix?

    Hi all -

    So - I got a start, AWESOME ... but ... more to it - it was not perfect, AND it did not start in a restart... I am not sure if this is a Pertronix problem, or other problem... If it's the latter I am guessing I should move to another thread. Advice on that, or if I should start a new post, is appreciated!

    Meanwhile here's what's up - and I appreciate any advice on where to begin the next step in troubleshooting -

    Got the Pertronix in, got the wiring done I think fine, omitting the clear resistor wire and running a 12 AWG wire to where I pulled its connection from the fuseblock. I did not mess with green (tach) wires; decided I would if the tach acted up on start (it did fine). A photo of the distro-Pertronix-flamethower wiring is attached, nothing special, just followed all your great advice... I ran that pertronix power cable the same as the clear resistor wire, and disconnected the clear resistor wire at the fuseblock. I made (for now) the Pertronix an easy spade disconnect affair, that I could quickly protect it if I ever charge (easier than pulling the Battery neg buried in the nose).

    THEN I tried to start... It took some doing to "get fire", but I did, with "almost smooth running" on a first run (see the video)... Then no real re-start. And found then, some potential fuel issues. but REALLY, I dunno if my problems are ignition - or now battery, fuel/carb, or something else. Let me explain the background, and the run. That final moments of that run (when it was looking like it was going to run ok), are captured here in mp4 format:

    1st Start Since 2009 - With Pertronix Video by HapyTailhooker | Photobucket

    or directly at:

    http://vid1293.photobucket.com/album...psgicbrlkm.mp4

    I only thought to video it after I got it running kinda OK, and was "solo" - so I flipped out the crap cellphone camera and waved it around. It may not help a bit in troubleshooting (maybe by "sound"?), but at least I can show I did get Fire, LOL...

    As background - this GT has sat with NO start/run, since I put it in 'parade rest' in the back of a hangar, in what, 2009?.... Then recent resurrection DID include servicing all oils (I'd put in a Tranny plug, did the rear end, engine oil pan fixes- all the oils were topped still, new, and the Radiator was good). The battery was nearly new in 2009... and yes, it's hot in AZ, it sat for years, and the charge was way down when I took the GT out of hibernation - BUT - it's held a charge now (charged NOT with the Pertronix attached!), and as you'll hear below - it seemed to turn the motor/starter OK... But never know if it's a problem... Also, the starter worked fine, all else worked fine before the Great Hibernation... The last owner had put in a new Weber carb (more below) - but it too, was all running fine before the running gap. Also the gas was low back then, and apparently it went to about Zero in the last 6 years - it is after all very dry in Arizona, and this is not too surprising... When I restarted on the GT couple weeks ago, I had topped the fuel off too, put drier in in case, and DID note a small drip leak from the fuel lines below the aft left corner of the tank (repaired OK with new clamps, checked lines). I did NOT have fuel filter or pump problems before either, but the last owner had apparently replaced the filter some time just before he sold it to me (per my old notes I found).

    Anyway, the 1st inglorious start went kinda like so.... I got a good starter turn several attempts with no hint of fire first... Recall I had a dry fuel tank - so while I started thinking of all the threads about Pertronix not getting enough volts, etc, I thought maybe I had dry fuel lines still... So I pushed the starter's limits on a few repeat runs...

    Throughout, the battery would tire on a long try at the starter, but would still supply power I think OK. Maybe not, dunno.... I checked the drain by flipping up the headlights - which lit brightly on the runs and only "chugged/dimmed, after a longer attempt....

    I then elected to see if I could get ANYTHING using starting fluid aerosol in the Carb butterfly, trying to isolate if any fire was in the ignition. I did this a couple times... At first, no response...

    Eventually after some throttle pumping, MAYBE the start-fluid aerosol (I have my doubts though), I got some "stumbles", a couple more times I got rough starts... with nursing some throttle dancing I seemed to then keep it running... but roughly at first. In about 45 seconds though, it got noably smoother. I was guessing the lack of line fuel was the culprit - but still not sure...

    I got the thing to run OK, and cautiously smiling, I thought to whip out the phone and took some video - at least to prove to Amanda, that it ran LOL... (she was on a soda run)... Then shut down and post-inspected, saw no obvious leaks (not yet - see below), burns or issues.

    Of COURSE - when she returned with Sprites, I attempted to re-start - and got no fire LOL... Back to the same prior deal - but the throttle jockeying and aerosol starter fluid did nothing, maybe 1 or 2 light stumbles at most... And I was getting more hesitant to press the tired starter too, or other issues without understanding the issues....

    BUT, I asked Amanda to stand at the Engine Bay, do the Aerosol spraying one time, and watch the Engine for issues... AND - she noted shat she called "spurting, looks like Fuel". So then, we stopped; I put her in the driver seat to attempt the starter and I then looked. It was not spurting so much as a good drip/drizzle, from a component on the right side of the carb (the carb which before had been no problem... I may have a new carb problem? Or just tighten something? Maybe has nothing to do with starting? that component is in the carb pictures also posted, circled in the magenta ring...

    BUT, we also notice something ALSO odd - and not before noticed at all. It also is in the pictures, this circled with a Blue Circle in the photos... It's a steel line, I would GUESS a fuel line - BUT - I have NEVER released that line, never messed with the fuel lines up by the carb, I am not SURE it's a fuel line (confirmation appreciated - and where to start reading up in the FSM!), but it comes out of the right middle firewall, then arcs back in the bay, toard the underside of the Carb... BUT the carb has no place for the un-attached compression/flare fitting it has... Also, NO fuel was coming from that line during these start attempts that we could see. I then went and looked at the old Carb (the owner had passed it to me too), and no clear fixtures are on it, but two MAY be part of the deal - like maybe the new carb "had one less fitting" LOL... Not sure - need to look at all this more... NOT sure if this is related to starting problems (and ergo this is no longer an ignition thread), or just another problem to deal with... Any thoughts here very much appreciated!

    So - I need to determine if I have more ignition problems, or if the problem is battery, fuel supply (lines, carb, pump, filter), starter (I doubt that!), vacuum (have not even dealt with vacuum yet), or other problem, right? Any thoughts? What might be my next ideas on troubleshooting, or threads on this? Is it classic behavior,?

    Many thanks! It's exciting to get fire - only though to add to the head-scratching as to what next LOL, AND if I should move this inquiry to new or different threads?

    Best, Paul & Amanda
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by paul.catherine; 06-12-2016 at 09:30 PM.
    Paul and Amanda
    Arizona 73 Opel GT Owners

  20. #18
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Hey, it's your thread. Leave it all here if you want. You can always ask a mod to change the title an place it in member projects.

    OK, so the extra line on the top of the carb is a vapor (and overflow) line coming from the top, so if the float valve fails the engine won't get loaded full of fuel.

    The accelerator pump (four bolts circled) will rot if left dry for too long. If it's leaking (very common after sitting for a long time) then you will get some extra air entering the circuit and the carb will be untunable.

    The rest of the issue, I believe, is because you have OLD gas remnants in your fuel system. Contrary to popular belief, gasoline won't evaporate to nothing. It leaves behind a substance like varnish. This can clog a system. The good news is gasoline, mixed with some seafoam, will reduce this varnish substance and clear things out.

    For your starting issue.

    Since you got it to start then I'd eliminate the pertronix as a problem from here out. It seems to be doing it's job.
    Now it's time to focus on the fuel system. You have old fuel lines and old fuel components. This will be the focus.

    The following, common, fail points in an Arizona car are, simply, fuel lines, fuel filter, fuel pump diaphragm, carb filter, float valve (especially if it's the rubber nub style), float, and accelerator pump.

    What I do is to buy a carb rebuild kit that has the diaphragm for the accelerator pump and rebuild the carb. You actually CAN rebuild what you need to without taking the carb off. It's about $30.
    I also change the fuel filter (or add one) after the fuel pump and replace ALL the fuel lines after the filter.
    Eventually I also replace the fuel pump with an electric one (I just started replacing pumps in the last two years. Hell of a difference).

    In all honesty I think you are either starving or flooding the engine. The easiest way to determine if it's flooding is to wait an hour and retry things. If it starts after an hour then you have a flooding issue.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—
    Humans are not an endangered species!
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—

  21. #19
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    Note to mods - feel free to move this where ever it needs to go since it is likely off-topic from the thread title.



    First, to double check your Pertronix is still working all you need to do is make sure you are still getting spark. The quickest method is as follows:

    1 - Remove one ignition wire at a time from a spark plug
    2 - Stick the metal end of a screwdriver down the boot of said wire
    3 - Holding the insulated handle of the screwdriver, hover the shaft of the screwdriver near a bolt on the engine block
    4 - Have a helper crank the engine for 2 or 4 seconds or until you notice a spark jump from the shaft of the screw driver to the engine block
    5 - Repeat for each ignition wire

    This method confirms that spark is able to get from the distributor to the spark plugs and it does so with some regularity (the job the Pertronix was designed to do!).

    You can also go a bit slower and first remove one spark plug at a time, touch the end of the plug to the engine block and crank the engine. You should see a spark jump the gap in the spark plug. This method confirms fully that spark is getting all the way across the spark plug.

    If you aren't getting spark, go back and confirm that none of your connections came undone, the engine ground is secure and in good condition, and both of the battery wires are firmly attached and not corroded.

    On to the carb problem. This square shaped thing you have circled is also the source of all of my hatred of ethanol fuels in our carbureted cars. That is the accelerator pump. Its job is to enrich the fuel mixture when you stomp on the pedal until a more steady state operation is reached where the normal jetting of the carb can take over. Inside of the accelerator pump is a rubber diaphragm which it crucial to its operation. Unfortunately, this rubber is not impervious to ethanol and can deteriorate from being exposed to it. It is also very thin and likely to dry out if left to sit for a number of years. I think yours is broken, allowing fuel to leak past and out of the carb.

    In addition to that issue, letting the fuel dry up completely has the unfortunate side effect of likely leaving a sludgy varnish in much of the fuel system. It is possible that some of this varnish has plugged a fuel jet or possibly even the fuel filter. I change my fuel filter when I de-winterize my car since they are typically really cheap and are super simple to change when the fuel lines are dry after the car having sat for the winter.

    EDIT: I noticed First Opel beat me to the punch, but I agree with everything ^^he^^ said.

  22. #20
    Paul and Amanda Opelers
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    MORE PROGRESS- GOT IT TO START AGAIN- Here's the details and alot more to do I think

    Hi all - I got it to start again - using the advice above I went over at lunch to FIRST see if I could get an idea if the GT was flooded last time (or starved)... Well, couple things - of relevance here, I tested the battery that was 11ish volts yesterday, and today it was down at 6 which we all know means - new battery time... Before I would get any decent troubleshooting, gotta get a good battery. I did try to put a fast charge on it (Pertronix un-spaded), and try a start, but the battery barely turned the motor... so I stopped.

    But some other things, too. Last few days I come into the hangar, check the fuel tank, and top it off. As you recall I'd gotten rid of a rear area drip leak, and wanted to see how the tank is holding. Well for three days in a row I filled it up the neck almost to the cap (just to see, it's not a great idea I know) - and when I came back next day, the fuel level was back down the neck - and so far does not go down further. Where does it go? It can't be evaporating LOL, I see NO evidence of leaks, floor stains, wetness anywhere.... is there some overflow or pocket it's going into? Or do I have other problems? Maybe it's going forward into the engine... ;-)

    BTW looking around the Engine bay, I also say what looks like a fuel filter (silver canister, but I have never seen one up high in the bay before, not up by the carb and valve covers anyway - I will put it in the photos attached, one of those generic metal canister types - is that in fact what it is? As you note, I should replace the filter... And the fuel pump - I presume it's not far from the carb, if mechanical ('ll look it up in the FSM), and yes, I would think an electric pump (by the tank? or up front better?)

    It's in this video too, along with carb shots, too - I was looking for indications of a Weber model, that question is next after the video link....

    http://vid1293.photobucket.com/album...pspjfv5dug.mp4

    I also looked closely at the Weber - I presume this carb is either a stock replacement, or some mild Opel option upgrade... the tattered box that it came in now has the old carb passed on from the old owner, and no other documents (hope I find some numbers on the new carb soon!) - but the box had a white tape on it with the alphanumerics: "K8257".... is this a useful number to identify the new carb? (to get the proper rebuild kit etc... I also will post some carb photos to see if this can generate any knowledge as to which Weber it is...

    Anyways, after work I went over to the car place, found a sale on a nice compact 775 CCA absorbed gas matt battery, also got some Sea Foam, and went back out to the Opel...

    Battery in - the car cranked very nicely. It still did not immediately start, which I now agree that we are dealing with fuel issues... But I don't think it was flooded... maybe...

    Again, it ran better after a few minutes of wobbly running. At this point Amanda showed up from work, so I had her start it (still takes some throttle pumping to start, and a few revvs to keep it going - does not want to idle right now...), I unloaded a full can of Sea Foam into the carb over two 3 minute runs. This DID improve the smoothness... and my oh my, did the blue exhaust gag the area with fumes out the wazoo! I presume the cloud was normal with Sea Foam? (my first time with Sea Foam)....

    At the end, it seems to run a lot smoother, not perfectly, but does not need goosing... BUT still will not foot-off idle... Since it idled OK back years ago I am sure I have more work to do... any advice appreciated!

    The other oddity is, we began to watch the tach... when one lowers the revv's to the point the GT no longer wants to stay running, we see about 2000 RPM... BUT this does not seem to sound to me like 2000 revvs - maybe my ear is no longer tuned to the car LOL... it just seems ALOT closer to a real fast-idle like 1000 or 1200... maybe... So - would the Tach be in err from the Pertronix?? BTW, the Tach DOES appear to run smoothly and not erratically. It may also be stopping (zero) actually at 1000, now that I am reviewing the videos... Any fix options? The rev sound seems closer to fast idle than a tach reading of 2+K, than what I am used to hearing/seeing in 4-bangers...

    Here are a couple more videos - of the motor running... You might catch the point where it does not want to stay running, and that number seems odd on the tach (to me anyway, but I'm a nube):

    http://vid1293.photobucket.com/album...psx7t5ggvl.mp4

    http://vid1293.photobucket.com/album...pss1f6lqws.mp4

    Irrespective of THAT issue, I am guessing using a second, non-aerosol can of Sea Foam in the oil (or where else?) would also help...

    Uggh - ravages of war - apparently when I lowered in the battery ahead of the radiator, I must've dinged it... not much, but it's a '73, and after the last shutdown we noted we had arterial radiator bleeding in the Hangar... well maybe the fix (I used marine-water-usable JB Weld) will hold when I test it tomorrow... I REALLY don't wanna also work on the radiator too LOL...

    So - any thoughts on what next to get the idle right, stabilize the running? Are we still thinking carb work? Can I do some fuel line cleaning in-situ, without pulling lines?

    And that odd, unhooked overflow fuel line talked about above - wonder why it does not attach to this carb?

    Many thanks again!
    Paul & Amanda
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