72 GT head lamp

[CBXJIM1]

I have a 72 GT that has been sitting for 5 years. I have most everything working except for the lamps themselves. I have only a chilton's to work with and there is a LOT of needed info that seems to be missing. I seem to have power to the headlamp relay, and nothing coming out. Do the ind switch and relay switch in the housing?, have to be in a lights on position to function? I am at the verge of putting another style of switch in place, but with all the indicators and relays, it looks to be a headbanger also. Does someone familiar with this problem have an idea they might pass on to me that will get me past this while I still remember how to put the dash back together?
Thanks
CBXJIM1

[GTJIM]

Have a look here for mechanical operation and micro-switch wiring.

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2c-gt-h...ght=Headlights

If what you are looking for is not in that thread then you need to put "headlight repairs" in the Search Zone box on the left side of the Home Page and sift through the Threads and Postings.

HTH

[CBXJIM1]

Originally Posted by GTJIM Have a look here for mechanical operation and micro-switch wiring. http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2c-gt-h...ght=Headlights If what you are looking for is not in that thread then you need to put "headlight repairs" in the Search Zone box on the left side of the Home Page and sift through the Threads and Postings. HTH

Thanks. I will search there next.
CBXJIM

[namba209]

After you've finished reading the thread Jim linked to, you'll note there are a lot of disparities in the headlight/microswitch wiring between the years of the cars. To answer your question the headlites have to be in the on/open position for the headlite relay to function, it is controlled by a micro in the driver's side bucket. To check the relay, jumper a 12 volt source to pin 87, the yellow/black wire on the relay, all lights should then come on, if the relay is good internally. If the relay checks out, then the most common problem is a non functioning micro, usually just a stuck actuating button on the switch. HTH.

[CBXJIM1]

Originally Posted by namba209 After you've finished reading the thread Jim linked to, you'll note there are a lot of disparities in the headlight/microswitch wiring between the years of the cars. To answer your question the headlites have to be in the on/open position for the headlite relay to function, it is controlled by a micro in the driver's side bucket. To check the relay, jumper a 12 volt source to pin 87, the yellow/black wire on the relay, all lights should then come on, if the relay is good internally. If the relay checks out, then the most common problem is a non functioning micro, usually just a stuck actuating button on the switch. HTH.

Thanks Ron. Yes, w/power to the yel/blk, it does light up everything nicely. But it is on # 85. Looks like it belongs there, and the chilton's(dislike saying that word) pic say's so also, and I just can't find a micro in the drivers HL bucket. Not like this is virgin wiring, but the wires come out of the hedder panel and go straight to the sealed beam. The only other wires I find are the wht/yel and brn/blk for the dimmer. Darn, this is aggravating.

[Wolf Spyder]

Originally Posted by namba209 usually just a stuck actuating button on the switch. HTH.

A shot of LPS will fix this.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by CBXJIM1 Thanks Ron. Yes, w/power to the yel/blk, it does light up everything nicely. But it is on # 85. Looks like it belongs there, and the chilton's(dislike saying that word) pic say's so also, and I just can't find a micro in the drivers HL bucket. Not like this is virgin wiring, but the wires come out of the hedder panel and go straight to the sealed beam. The only other wires I find are the wht/yel and brn/blk for the dimmer. Darn, this is aggravating.

You're right, Pin 85 is the correct one on the relay, musta been fat finger syndrome on my part. According to my DESTEC schematic, there should be a Yellow/Black and a Black wire going to a second micro switch in the Driver's side headlite bucket. But, as I said earlier, the headlight wiring is not the same on all years and model GTs, yo may not have a microswitch in the passenger side bucket and that makes trouble shooting a bit harder from here. One thing, the wiring may be hiding behind the rotating mechanism, see if you can see all the wire colors in the bundle by the master cylinder where is goes through the sheetmetal to the bucket.

[CBXJIM1]

Originally Posted by namba209 You're right, Pin 85 is the correct one on the relay, musta been fat finger syndrome on my part. According to my DESTEC schematic, there should be a Yellow/Black and a Black wire going to a second micro switch in the Driver's side headlite bucket. But, as I said earlier, the headlight wiring is not the same on all years and model GTs, yo may not have a microswitch in the passenger side bucket and that makes trouble shooting a bit harder from here. One thing, the wiring may be hiding behind the rotating mechanism, see if you can see all the wire colors in the bundle by the master cylinder where is goes through the sheetmetal to the bucket.

I d/loaded the 4 page howto from Wayne Torman and did it. Got Micro's. Not really sure how those swingarms are going to go as far as they need to to make the micro's work, but if the indicator switch isn't doing it's job, will that kill the light's as the relay would? Seems as though there has been work done in there already as the bucket support plate for the actuator is new, and the wiring isn't brittle, but the arm the 'crossbar' hooks to, to move the gears that work the hook things that actually make the micro's work, uh, where was I, oh yeah, don't seem to want to go far enough either way to make all that happen, whew. Hope just a lot of lube and elbo stuff will do it. Thanks for pushing me in all the right directions. So far, everything has come loose and nothing has broken. Curious though, after testing the yel/blk on relay, why would one license plate light stay lit, when nothing is on?
Regards
cbxjim

[namba209]

Jim, here's a hint, the little rollers on the end of the rotating arms, go into overcenter locks. Those locks have to be really lubed good. There is a lot of mechanism for each one that is not readily apparent unless you look real close at how they work. Now for another neat thing, each gear tooth at the end of the sector are not full gear teeth, what happens there is the rotating mass of the headlight, keeps rotating past the last tooth and forces the rotating arm into the overcenter locks, which activates the microswitches. The same thing happens when you unlock the lites, the arms move before the lite buckets to unlock the overcenter locks so the headlite bucket can rotate, this happens at both locked positions to unlock and at both open and close positions going into the locked position. After you get everything luybed up and loose, you should be able to lock the arms by hand pressure and unlock them by prying on the funny little curved arm on the overcenter mechanism. It is a very ingenious system.

[CBXJIM1]

Originally Posted by namba209 Jim, here's a hint, the little rollers on the end of the rotating arms, go into overcenter locks. Those locks have to be really lubed good. There is a lot of mechanism for each one that is not readily apparent unless you look real close at how they work. Now for another neat thing, each gear tooth at the end of the sector are not full gear teeth, what happens there is the rotating mass of the headlight, keeps rotating past the last tooth and forces the rotating arm into the overcenter locks, which activates the microswitches. The same thing happens when you unlock the lites, the arms move before the lite buckets to unlock the overcenter locks so the headlite bucket can rotate, this happens at both locked positions to unlock and at both open and close positions going into the locked position. After you get everything luybed up and loose, you should be able to lock the arms by hand pressure and unlock them by prying on the funny little curved arm on the overcenter mechanism. It is a very ingenious system.

You are simply amazing. Were you involved when these were being designed? My back keeps telling me I'm not 20 anymore while I'm upside down figuring out the wiring mayhem. Not much room tween seat and pedals. I was serious about the license plate light. Wierd. Have you ever encountered a lubricant 'Lube One? I guess I need to unhook the headlight wires on the drivers side and take the whole rotator/latch assembly out so I can strip it with solvent and relube with Lube One, and seal it with Hi temp bearing grease. Keeps things smoothly slick without drawing dust and anything with a positive charge to it. Thanks bunches for the advise and info. I will give you folks a charge with a pic of my 440 ci Gremlin when it's back up.
cbxjim1

[namba209]

Originally Posted by CBXJIM1 Were you involved when these were being designed? bxjim1

Not really, I just happen to have a fair extensive interest in things mechanical. As for the license plate lites, they have their own circuit coming off the last fuse in the group of three on one side of the studs in the fuse panel. Those three fuses power all the lites other than the headlites. It could be a short from a hot wire to that circuit. Double check all the connections. BTW, if you remove the two nuts that hold the fuse panel in place behind the instrument panel, it will drop down far enuff to really look hard at all the connections. There will be a huge rat's nest inside the panel. Be real careful, that panel is really old and brittle plastic. HTH.