Three Point Inertia Reel Seatbelt Upgrade for a GT

[nobody]

That's what I thought, but there is no threaded mount behind the vinyl anywhere. I pulled everything in the area trying to find one but there isn't one. There is a smaller hole where I imagine it should have been. It looks like a search for a metric blind nut is in order. There is also no wiring for this type of belt in the car, and like I said it is a 72 made in 9 of 71.

[kwilford]

There are differences in seatbelt mountings between the various GT years.

Early GT's ('68 through early '70) had the shoulder belt mount down low, behind the "B" pillar, just below the vent window (which of course weren't "vents" in those years). The lap belt was separate, and mounted to the inner rocker panel down beside the seat. Not a good place to mount a retractor, and the shoulder mount also doesn't lend itself to a three point inertia belt.

Later '70's through '72 had the shoulder mount in a good location, up on the B pillar, but the lap belt still mounts to the rocker. You need to fabricate a new mount for the retractor, as I have shown in the attached photo, which doesn't show the mounting bracket. There needs to be a plate, at least four inches square, with a nut welded behind it for the retractor to mount to. But once that is done, they work great.

As I understand it, only the '73 had a shoulder belt retractor located in the normal location. And they still used a separate lap belt, so they are hardly user-friendly. But aftermarket three point inertia belts (and '86/'87 Hyundai Pony belts such as I supplied and Jimsky ended up with via James Coronato) bolt right up.

HTH

[kwilford]

And a view of the retractor mounting hole

[Jim Branham]

I was at the junkyard and asked if they had any Hyundai Pony cars and they looked at me kind of funny, is the Pony name a generic term or a model for Hyundai? Thanks.

[baz]

its the model name jim

[Gary]

And it was imported to Canada not the U.S.

[kwilford]

And you Yanks should be grateful. It was Canada's gift to the U.S.A., by being the only N.A. recipient of these cars from 1984 to 1987. It was a TERRIBLE car! But that meant the PYP yard was FULL of them, and more seemed to show up every week or so. But the seat belts were made in Japan, and are of excellent quality. And the only years that work in the GT are the '86/'87 Pony. FYI, the first Hyundai imported into the States was the Excel, in 1988 I believe, which was only marginally better.

Two years ago, when I was doing the "Career Hiatus" thing, I found these belts at the local Pick Your Part. Since they were only sold in Canada, I made a hobby out of it, and sold 15 sets around the country. But my days at PYP are done (for now, excepting today being Remembrance Day, aka Veterans Day in America, unless I can arrange another career break).

Kat McCoy had picked up the business when I went back to work, but she is now in Keizer Oregon, so no Pony's there. Perhaps a Canadian with more time on his or her hands could pick up the torch? Although I read a thread on this site that mentioned buying brand new aftermarket belts for $30, which is barely more than the cost of shipping from Canada.

[opelgtman1973]

Originally posted by kwilford Although I read a thread on this site that mentioned buying brand new aftermarket belts for $30, which is barely more than the cost of shipping from Canada.

I have a set of the aftermarket belts offered by Latest Rage on my '73, and they bolted up pretty easily after reversing the latches in their plastic sleeves and cutting away some of the carpet. I later realized that the carpet cutting may have been avoided by straightening out the piece that bolts to the chassis. It essentially gets straightened out when you tighten down the bolt anyway. I was going for a quick solution, since my carpet is crap and will be replaced within a year, so I just got out a carpet knife and hacked away. I'll be sure to make a nice neat cutaway in the new carpet when the time comes

[spdkilz02]

anyone have a lead on where i could get some of these pony seatbelts?..i checked and nothing on ebay, and on www.car-part.com they have 4 listed, cheapest i could find was 30 bucks a piece plus shipping from canada...

[maglinjosvinn]

Originally Posted by spdkilz02 anyone have a lead on where i could get some of these pony seatbelts?..i checked and nothing on ebay, and on www.car-part.com they have 4 listed, cheapest i could find was 30 bucks a piece plus shipping from canada...

yeah, i'd be interested in getting some of these too...

did you weld a bolt into the wall to hold the inertia box?

[sawdust]

Originally Posted by kwilford The lower hole is just the existing hole for the "plug" for the panel, drilled out to 7/16 inch. The upper hole is for the locater stud on the retractor, which keeps it plumb. The retractor is a true "inertia" design, so you can still reach the dash controls, but it locks up on sudden deceleration. What isn't shown is a backing plate that needs to be made up for the retractor to bolt to. The Highway Safety Standards Act requires it to be 4 inches square for each mounting bolt. I am just going to tack weld a 7/16 inch UNF-20 nut (so I can use the stock bolt) on the back of a piece of 1 1/2 inch by 6 inch angle iron, and pop rivet it to the inside of the inner panel. Then the retractor will just bolt through the upholstered panel.

Sounds good. Are pop rivets enough? Do you happen to have a better picture?

[jvandyke]

Received my belt set from these guys:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...8572&rd=1&rd=1

Haven't tried to install yet but they look pretty decent. $50 to your door isn't bad.

Part: US SBELT from US Auto Parts (out of Taiwan of course), on the box "PLINK P.O. #APX022307"

[Phoenix]

Like the earlier post, late first gen Probes had a "Passive Restriant System". It was a two piece belt system. The shoulder piece would move when the door was opened or closed and would automatically secure the belt across the chest. You then had to pull the lap belt across on your own. I had a 92 which was the last year of the first gen Probes. My 92 Thunderbird was the same way.

Trivia: The Probe was supposed to be the next gen Mustang, but the Cougar was supposed to be the third gen Probe.

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by sawdust Sounds good. Are pop rivets enough? Do you happen to have a better picture?

If the plate is located behind the inner panel and is big enough to cover the sheet metal and the hole from the factory, it just needs to be held in place, so pop rivets should be fine. Unfortunately my GT has gone backward and is currently sitting on a body rotisserie waiting on a media blast to bare metal. I didn't attach the backing plate yet

[sawdust]

Originally Posted by kwilford ....... so pop rivets should be fine.....

I will pop rivet an angle bracket behind the panel and then tack weld for added insurance. I will post a picture when I geterdone.

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Trivia: The Probe was supposed to be the next gen Mustang, but the Cougar was supposed to be the third gen Probe.

I read somewhere recently that people weren't too "comfortable" with the name "Probe" either.

I'm messing with my new belts tonight, saw somewhere here how to get the slip on cover off to get at the bolts on the old ones (Manta issue they tell me). Then I'll see how this pair I got sets up, sure look like the ones Keith pictured above.
Bolt right up so far, new bolts fit old threads in floor (by door) and tunnel (although to go through the carpet I used the bolt from my old belts as it was slightly longer) Didn't mount reel yet but seems like it will go like described above, will probably end up doing the 'flip" thing so the belt passes over the shoulder with no twist.
Will report later.

[jvandyke]

I need to make the hole for the reel mount, I want the parcel shelf out of the way for better access. How does that come apart? searched and flipped through FSM but haven't come across it yet.
Also, it seems like the hole other's have used (the one where the clip goes for the interior panel) is up close to the wall of the door jam. Just a word of caution to others before grabbing the drill and having at it, check, you might come out OUTSIDE the car, by your door latch. (No I didn't do that, yet)

More info on the belts I have (see above): no mounting peg on the back of the reel to ensure verticle alignment and the latch/clip side is a bit long for the GT, sticks up a little too far next the seat, at least a few inches farther then my old Manta belts. I doubt it'll be a problem, just a mock up at this point. (probably the same as the Probe and OTGS ones).
Hope to have in today yet, just the hard part to go: make backing plate and bolt it all up, then to cover the holes in the vinyl from the PO's install, must be creative here, fire extinguisher mount....hmmmm

[jlthunder]

Originally Posted by jvandyke I want the parcel shelf out of the way for better access. How does that come apart? searched and flipped through FSM but haven't come across it yet.

If you mean the "back seat" there are screws holding it to the body. They usually get buried in the carpet over time. Use a magnet to find the screws. They are phillips head and are located around the perimeter of the "back seat".

HTH

Jeff

[jvandyke]

Yep, the "backseat" I'll look for screws then.

BTW it was backseat once last week. I got home from work (not driving the GT), my wife meet me in the driveway "I've got something to tell you" and she looks upset and then starts to cry.
I'm thinking, "oh shi#$ there's been a car accident, plane crash......she found a cuter mechanic......????!!!!!"
Then she shows me the nick she put in the side of the GT with her van door.
I started laughing.
She felt bad though so when it was time to go watch my daughter's volleyball game she let me take her in the GT knowing that we'd have to take said daughter home and SOMEONE would be in the "backseat" (it's only 3/4 of mile or so). Yep, you guessed it, my daughter simply said "you guys are silly enough to take a two seater to move three people, one of YOU is sitting back there"
My wife did, but she made me leave early and drive fast so as not to let her be seen. A good time was had by all, except her.

[jvandyke]

The existing hole for the interior panel plug is so close to the door jam
(Keith's picture post #6) on my 1970.
I enlarged it to accommodate the bolt to hold the retractor but it's so close to that wall there's barely room for a nut back there let alone much of a plate.
I did make up a plate with a bolt attached to it but I had to grind the bolt and plate down on the edge. Is this what others had to do? It seems like it'll be okay. I didn't use angle iron but might try that yet, one side of iron against the door jam wall and the other up against the interior wall where bolt comes through?
Just conjecture. The backing plate I made last night has bolt in the extreme corner (with precious little plate along one edge as there's no room), the rest of the plate (bar really) is going to go across the access hole and get bolted there too, well, that's the plan for now but that could very well change as I'm not happy with my backing plate being so compromised in that corner, of course, a corner like that is a pretty strong so maybe there really isn't a need for a plate?
First picture: current plan, second: other plan
picture borrowed from Keith's post above, is it possible my GT doesn't have as much wall as later years? I'll take a picture tonight.

[oldopelguy]

FWIW the only place I've actually run across find a spec on how strong the anchor for a seat belt needs to be is the State Motor Vehicle Code in CT. It actually specified at one point that an anchor not origional to the car manufacturer's as tested design needed to be able to withstand a 5000# force along the belt if the belt was tensioned towards the front of the car with a maximum amount of deflection that was a very small amount.

As a result, I've pretty much just kept it in the back of my mind that if I'm going to do anything to the seat belts on a car I need to imagine the car leaning on a wall, nose side down, and build the anchorage so each one would support the weight of two Opels hanging from it without deflection. If I can't figure out how to do that given what I've got to work with than I stick to the stock seat belt anchorages. For me, that's easy; the brand new $35 aftermarket ones work great in the Kadett and Manta, and pretty good in the '73 GT. I guess if I had one of the older GT's and was really worried about it I would probably look to get something else before I would be engineering something that "should work" and assume the engineering liability.

[jvandyke]

Good points. Not sure what else one can get. The backing plate in the OTGS kit (from pictures I've seen, I don't have it) is about 3 inches long, 3/4" wide and maybe 1/8" thick. The mounting hole they suggest is very close to the edge of the access hole, less then 1/4" of steel there I'd say.
In other words, I highly doubt the OTGS kit would meet this standard, let alone any concoction I cook up, although, so far, mine is beefier than this.
I'm no engineer though, what looks weak to me might be more than adequate to save my skin and what looks like overkill may not even be enough to save a 10lb child.
If I envision it right, the important thing is that the anchor point holds your sorry butt back from flying ahead in a crash, so perhaps this backing plate is enough to keep the mount from ripping through the steel. That is the point of the plate no? big enough that it would take A LOT to rip it out from behind the steel wall of the car.
BTW the PO's installation point on passenger side has "bent and warped" steel like something had tried to pull the nut through, maybe me trying to get it apart.

Has someone ripped apart a stock Opel anchor point to see how it was beefed up by Opel?

In the end, I understand I'm on my own as my standards are probably higher and "better" then what passed in 1970 even if I do it myself, right?
Short of getting a qualified engineer to do it for me. This is where we are.

[kwilford]

Hmm, when I get back home from Jamaica next week I'll have to look at the spacing. I was envisioning a plate that was about three inches tall, and about six inches wide, so it extends back across the panel opening. I was going to fit it in place and then mark where the hole needs to be, then drill the hole, weld the nut on, and tack weld the plate in place. But my plans are still in my head, not in metal yet...

[namba209]

I'm kinda at a loss here, with all the talk about putting in steel plates, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but on Willit? I have a 4-point seat belt/harness setup. One by the console for the latch, one above the shelf below the quarter window, one above that on the door pillar, and one behind the seat on the door sill. If you're going to a 3 point, put the retractor on the bottom bolt above the package shelf, run it straight up to the door pillar bolt, then to the bolt in the door sill, or back to the retractor. That way when the belt retracts it will be along the door sill. It's something I'm gonna do after I fix all the other little things on Willit?, although I do like having separate belts, but I'd like them both to retract like they do on the monza. JMTCW.

[jvandyke]

I did the passenger side as per picture #1 above, with a plate spanning the access hole and bolted there (using a hole the PO had already made for that)
There's is precious little room against the door jam wall. Plate is very thin there. Not much room to move the hole over either (access hole is there) then it wouldn't be as plumb with pillar mount. Driver's side is still in progress, thinking of trying something a bit different. I have some pictures of OTGS instructions for their kit but I'm hesitant to post them since they belong to OTGS. Their instructions have you making a hole higher and 3/4" from the door jam wall, so there too, with the width of a nut there's not much plate room left. Here's my install.