Gordo's Vectra Electric Window Adventure! - Part 3 ???
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Thread: Gordo's Vectra Electric Window Adventure! - Part 3 ???

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Gordo's Vectra Electric Window Adventure! - Part 3 ???

    This is my thread about installing electric scissor-style window lifting mechanisms from an '00 era Opel Vectra in my Opel GT.

    Uhhh.......apparently I goofed when I titled the predecessor to this thread:

    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2b-seat...part-zwei.html

    The goof I made was that I never made a Part One or Part Einz. I thought I made a whole thread about my first electric window adventure installing a SPAL electric window conversion kit. It turns out that I only made a few posts about it in my GTX thread, starting at post #108:

    Part One - SPAL cable actuated conversion kit: http://www.opelgt.com/forums/member-...tml#post276107

    And a short time ago I made this thread:

    Part Zwei - Honda cable actuated: http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2b-seat...part-zwei.html

    So, now begins.......

    Part Three - Opel Vectra scissor actuated electric windows



    Much about this project was discussed in the Part Twei thread, but the mechanisms appeared to have gotten lost in shipment, so I installed the Honda mechanisms in the meantime. Well, I no sooner got the Honda ones modded and installed, when the Vectra ones arrived at my door.



    So, what to do?

    Yank out the Hondas, install the Vectras?

    Toss the Vectras on the shelf, use the Hondas?

    Well, I've only installed the driver's side Honda-modded assembly, I've yet to install the passenger side one...........

    HEY! I'VE GOT A STUPID IDEA ! ! !

    Why not install a Vectra mechanism in the passenger door?!!!

    Stay tuned.......


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    2000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Vectra mechanism is out of reach for the majority of N. American Opelers, however it would be interesting to compare to Honda mechanism.
    Go ahead and install Vectra mechanism in a passenger door.
    Last edited by P.J. Romano; 02-14-2017 at 10:33 AM.
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    Site Founder My location Gary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    Go ahead and install Vectra mechanism in a passenger door.
    Then use the other one to make a power hood opener!
    My 24 Valve Ascona A wagon project blog.
    www.alt-opel.us
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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Hi Gordon
    Its only my little opinion.
    I like the Honda way you be gone so much
    Special with the bike parts for fit the rope in the best direction to the rope pulleys.Never see this genius mod before
    And you didn`t lost the protect stability from the door with the OEM bare!
    I would install the passenger site also with the Honda one.
    So you have time to play with the Vectra ones in the basement of Opeldome NJ

    Norbert
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    Hi Gordon
    (Translated)Its only my little opinion, but I like the Honda way you have done very much!
    Especially with the bike parts to guide the cable in the best direction to the cable pulleys. I've never see this genius mod before!
    And you didn't lose the crash protection that the oem slider bar adds!
    I would install the passenger side also with the Honda one.
    Then you will have time to play with the Vectra ones in the basement of Opeldome, NJ!
    Norbert
    Oh poo! What fun is that? Oh, okay, I will put the Honda in the passenger door because it will be easy and only take me one day.

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    Vectra mechanism is out of reach for the majority of N. American Opelers, however it would be interesting to compare to Honda mechanism.
    Go ahead and install Vectra mechanism in a passenger door.
    I want to move on to other projects for a while, so............I will install the Vectra in my passenger door.......that's in my basement. It will be good to show one of these installed in an Opel door and we will learn the basic rules of installing this type. I'm sure this Vectra scissor-type isn't much different from any other similar type that could be found in an American/Canadian junkyards. There will be much to learn about clearances and other factors when considering putting this type in our cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Then use the other one to make a power hood opener!
    You know, if I could somehow set the motor's overcurrent sensing to a very low level, so as not to break my fiberglass hood, it's a fun idea to consider. I would want the motor to stop pushing automatically when it senses the slightest resistance. It's a knuckleheaded idea, but fun to think about!


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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I thought I would make a little progress with the Vectra window install in my cut open mock-up door.

    First I fastened the drill template that Norbert provided to the door and drilled the 5 holes:



    Then I mounted the motor. Ooops! My first attempt would have set the window on a 45* angle. I guess that unmarked window mechanism must be the driver's side one. I removed it and installed the other one. Much better, although I don't like that the motor sticks down and water can run down to it and the wiring, plus it hits a part of the door. Shimming needed. The other Vectra assembly had the motor sticking up, like I have my Honda ones installed.





    Then I slipped the glass in and moved the adjusting arm in the slotted hole I needed to make until it was level and sitting straight within the vertical window channel:





    I only spent about 45 minutes on it, now the going is gonna go slow. Lots of little bridges to cross. This door's window channel rubber is toast and there's shimming of the motor assembly and other stuff to do.
    Last edited by The Scifi Guy; 02-17-2017 at 06:24 PM.

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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    You don`t use the washers and nuts in order, I screw the unit on the template ?
    Why you mean I do this work
    You bend the window rail to a curve for better fit on the glass??

    No efforts with the Hondopel lifter Driver side?

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    Senior Member nickincrete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    Oh poo! What fun is that? Oh, okay, I will put the Honda in the passenger door because it will be easy and only take me one day.



    I want to move on to other projects for a while, so............I will install the Vectra in my passenger door.......that's in my basement. It will be good to show one of these installed in an Opel door and we will learn the basic rules of installing this type. I'm sure this Vectra scissor-type isn't much different from any other similar type that could be found in an American/Canadian junkyards. There will be much to learn about clearances and other factors when considering putting this type in our cars.



    You know, if I could somehow set the motor's overcurrent sensing to a very low level, so as not to break my fiberglass hood, it's a fun idea to consider. I would want the motor to stop pushing automatically when it senses the slightest resistance. It's a knuckleheaded idea, but fun to think about!

    instead of current sensing you could use a mechanical switch inline and use various springs to set the resistance in order to stop the motor at the desired pressure
    nick

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    You don`t use the washers and nuts in order, I screw the unit on the template ?
    Why you mean I do this work
    You bend the window rail to a curve for better fit on the glass??

    No efforts with the Hondopel lifter Driver side?

    Don't get your lederhosen stuck in your ass crack, I was just doing a quick set up to see how things look!




    Today I will spend some more time on my driver's door Hondopel set up to see if I can make it work better.

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Even though it is much too soon to give the Vectra window mechanism a decent test, I had run jumper cables out to my truck to provide me with a 12V power supply to test some lighting, so why not juice them up and see how they work? Here's a video:

    Preliminary test of Opel Vectra scissor lift window mechanism in an Opel GT door:

    https://youtu.be/g30eu0EGut4

    I have to do something to make the window track rubber work better, it's all collapsed and screwed up, so I have to work on that. I also have to figure out why the window went all the way down and crashed into the bottom of the door, even after I had removed power. I was only powering the blue/red wire, which is supposed to only be the intermittant Down function wire(I think). I thought the brown/black wire(which I didn't plan on hooking up) was the Auto Down wire. Right now, the only reason I can think of for why it kept going down is because I had kept steady connection to the blue/red, instead of just briefly touching it to power. But when I removed the wire from power entirely, it kept going. Maybe Norbert or someone else can provide an explanation.

    But I'm very encouraged by it's overall function! The window track is awful, I haven't shimmed and lined things up, and the glass is only half-assed shoved into the window lifting bar, yet it seems to work very well!

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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    That the window go all the way down is normal when not have a separat stopper like Georg have done.
    I didn`t have a passenger window you know,so you must find out the best point for install a second stopper!
    Maybe on the door bottom

    The power must steadly on red and brown wire. The red/blue and green/gray are the switch power for up and down!

    Brown/black will not be use. Is for closed the window by keyless remote when closed the doors from the Vectra!
    Last edited by norbertone.gt371; 02-18-2017 at 09:58 AM.

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    So, you are saying that I should put a hard stop device somewhere for the scissor mechanism to hit and stop the down movement? Like a bolt or a block of metal or rubber?

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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    So, you are saying that I should put a hard stop device somewhere for the scissor mechanism to hit and stop the down movement? Like a bolt or a block of metal or rubber?
    Correct!!!! Look at the pictures from Georg I show.
    Also I see in the video the Stop device for "up" come earlier as the window is total in the channel rubber all way up!
    So it can be you must modified the Stopper by cut or grind, or you must go 8mm higher with the whole unit.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Look at the picture for stop device down

    If you or other have a better idear, just do it.

    I will go back to clean up toiletts in the Opel Lodge
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I spent a lot of time on the Vectra window set up today and I discovered many things, but it's late, so I'll tell you more about it tomorrow. For now, here are some pictures:


    IMG_4718.jpg IMG_4720.jpg IMG_4720 with lines.jpg IMG_4721.jpg IMG_4722.jpg


    The 2nd and 3rd pics above show the different angles at the bottom of GT door window glass, which makes creating a new window holder a bit difficult. The 4th pic shows an oem GT window lifter in place. I can attach that to the aluminum Vectra window holder with relative ease and solve a number of problems at one time.
    Last edited by The Scifi Guy; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:44 AM.
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    7,000 Post Club My location wrench459's Avatar
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    I wonder if Gördö will ever get to punching a fob?
    Knock three times will roll both windows down,start the engine,turn on the A/C.
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench459 View Post
    I wonder if Gördö will ever get to punching a fob?
    Knock three times will roll both windows down,start the engine,turn on the A/C.
    Ha! You laugh, but it COULD happen if I get bored enough! Ha!


    Okay, here's some of the mounting parameters and considerations I discovered yesterday:

    One of the things I discovered are that you must figure out how you will attach the glass to the aluminum Vectra window holder BEFORE deciding where to mount the motor assembly. Where the motor assembly is currently mounted, if I have the window sitting directly in the Vectra holder, it stops 1/2" from the top because the mechanism hits the round mechanical stop point near the gear teeth. The motor should then be mounted higher than Norbert told me to mount it. But there is no good way to mount the glass to the Vectra holder, so I tried putting the Opel window holder on the glass and then fitting the bottom of that into the Vectra window holder. This I think will work much better and it also lifts the window 25mm higher and now the window goes all the way up to the top. Using the oem GT window lifter/holder also solves how to come up with a safe, strong, way to attach the mechanism to the window. Using an oem window lifter/holder with this Vectra mechanism requires the flipping the holder around and carving away a lot of it. I only have one rusty spare, so I only have one shot at this. Carving it up is on today's dinner plate.

    The motor assembly must be shimmed 25mm away from the inside door skin where the bottom adjustment bar is. This is because the Opel window, slider bar, and the window tracks are not parallel to the inside door skin, they are all on an angle, front to rear, in relation to the inner door skin. Therefore, you must shim the mechanism where it attaches to the inner skin on this same angle.

    There is a mechanical stop bumper sort of thing inside the "gear triangle" that stops it's upwards movement. I need to install another mechanical stop to limit the downwards movement. But, right now, I don't see a good place to install one within the triangle. I may have to put one someplace else. Now, I was initially told that these mechanisms detect the window stopping at the end of it's travel the first time you power up and use them and that they will then automatically remember that stop point. I don't see any evidence of this happening, Theoretically, if it remembers where the window stops moving, it shouldn't need mechanical stops. Since I don't see this happening, I'm going to proceed as though this is not true and that I need to install a mechanical stop for the downwards movement. There IS an automatic function: Auto Down. If you push the button to make the window go down for longer than 2 seconds, it will continue to go down without pressing the button. That's what happened in the video and the mechanism kept going down until it hit the bottom of the door.

    I notice that there isn't a second downward travel stop on these mechanisms, just the one at the top in the picture. But I see a cut out in the gear triangle that looks like it is intended to hit the one mechanical stop on the downstroke. In other words, it appears that the one mechanical stop limits both the up and the down motions. That part of the gear triangle doesn't come anywhere near the mechanical stop when mounted in a GT. The mechanism will crash into the bottom of the door long before that cut out hits the mechanical stop. I presume that a Vectra window or window opening is taller than it is on a GT. So, I must invent my own downward travel stop. The space on the mechanism to mount another stop is limited, so today I am going to investigate the feasibility of attaching a metal plate to the gear triangle, over the cut out, and positioned to hit the mechanical stop at the correct point of the downwards travel. I would basically be using the mechanism's original downwards movement limiting method(the cut out in the triangle), but just moving it to another location. Another guy installed an adjustable cam-based second mechanical stop on the mechanism itself.:

    IMG_4726.jpg

    Overall, I REALLY like the concept, functionality, and power of this scissor lift style. Sure, there's a lot more involved than simply adding an electric motor to pull on your oem bicycle cables, but once it's mounting, positioning, and adapting to the window is all worked out, I'll have far more confidence in it than I'll ever have with bicycle cables lifting and suspending my windows. This sucker is POWERFUL! It doesn't slow down or react to binding at all. I haven't tried to hold it or stop it from moving to detect how much force is required to trigger it's internal jam detection and kill the power, but the force required is far more than what would stop the Honda mechanism. You can stop them with one finger. I assume that there's some sort of self-resetting circuit breaker or function built into it.
    Last edited by The Scifi Guy; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:38 AM.
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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Only for
    Is there a way to adapt the whole scissor to the whole OEM lifter bare

    Center bolt system???

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Do you mean to keep the big oem slider bar and have the scissor mechanism push/pull the window up and down along the slider bar? Well, yes, the concept would work, but there isn't enough room for all that stuff in the door. But that ruins one of the advantages of this system. The oem system has 3 arcs that all must be in perfect parallel to each other: Front window track, rear window track, and the slider/lifter bar. If any one of those 3 is not parallel to the others, then a bind will happen because the glass and the arcs are not flexible. This system only has two arcs: The front and rear window tracks. The scissors can flex and bend to conform to many angles and they let the window go wherever it wants to go and does not interfere, it only pushes and pulls at the bottom. The oem lifter must go where the slider bar makes it go, it can not bend or twist or let the window follow whatever path the two window tracks make it go. This is one reason why I see no binding or slowing down at all in the window's movement. Right now, the scissors are not lined up with the glass and the window tracks, they are a whole 25mm too far to the inside, yet the window goes up and down with no trouble. If the oem slider bar was 25mm out of line with the window tracks, the glass would break.
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    All done!

    I had the day off for President's Day, but I screwed up and went to work anyway. Everyone laughed at me and called me a dumbass and I went home, but I was full of coffee and all dressed for work, so I went down in the basement and finished the modding required to make the Vectra window mechanism work.

    The first order of business was to attach the glass somehow to the Vectra window holder, so that I knew where the upper and lower limits of the window's travel would be. The Vectra window holder has a 1/4" wide slot to hold the glass, so I used some scrap 1/4" thick aluminum I had, set it in the slot, and lowered the window until it sat on the outer lip of the slot with the 1/4" aluminum sticking up behind it. I marked holes to mount the glass to the aluminum piece, bolted it up, then drilled a single bolt hole through the window holder and the aluminum piece sitting inside it and bolted it up. I left a teensy bit of play in things to allow for minor movement and relieve any potential stress that might get transmitted to the glass:


    Mounting the glass to the Vectra window holder (3).jpg Mounting the glass to the Vectra window holder (2).jpg Mounting the glass to the Vectra window holder (1).jpg


    Now that the window was firmly attached to the window lifting mechanism, I could set the angle of the glass accurately and determine the upward and downward travel parameters and considerations. The upward travel worked out perfectly with no need to move the motor assembly. The window goes all the way to the top and recesses nicely into the window channel rubber and the mechanism hits the upward travel stop. The last thing to do was to create a downward travel stop at the mechanism's "gear triangle". The Vectra window and window opening must be MUCH larger than the Opel GT's. The single round mechanical stop with rubber ring around it normally limits both the upwards and downwards travel of the Vectra window. Mounted in a GT's door, however, the mechanism doesn't even come close to the mechanical stop and the window crashes into the bottom of the door. Other people have mounted a second round mechanical stop to the mechanism. I didn't see a good mounting place for such a thing, so I decided to mount a stop bracket to the gear triangle itself. This is how the Vectra mechanism originally stopped the upwards and downwards travel. The gear triangle hits the stop on the way up and on the way down. I simply added a piece of metal to the gear triangle, so that it hits the stop sooner on the down stroke. I found a pre-drilled,conveniently shaped, piece of steel, lowered the window, drilled and bolted it to the triangle, then marked where I needed to cut off a bit where it hits the mechanical stop. I bent it slightly inwards, so that it would hit the stop, and bolted it in place.

    All done!


    Downward travel stop (1).jpg Downward travel stop (2).jpg Downward travel stop (3).jpg


    And here is a nice long video where I describe some aspects of the install and show it in action. I accidentally put my finger over the microphone for a short portion of it and the window stutters and stumbles as it moves because I was trying to hold the camera, talk, and touch various wires to the power source:


    https://youtu.be/LR0JCzXGG1U
    Last edited by The Scifi Guy; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:59 PM.
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