Headlight Relays

[simplemind7]

yes, thats what you need to do. i think thats what one of the the PO has done to my GT since there is a switch under my dash that is not in the wiring diagrams and has 2 yellow wires going to the headlight relays, guess i have to wait until i have the lights in there to see.

[fsrowsell]

Pleasee see attahed word doc... Thanks Felix

[simplemind7]

if everything you put in that document is correct, then relay #2 is bad because if terminal 30 has power, either 87a or 87 MUST have power.

also, the microswitch is not triggering relay #1 properly, i assumed that the microswitch sent voltage out, but it could be a negative trigger. actually, if it were a negative trigger, it would have caused a dead short when you turned on the on/off switch, this leads me to believe that the microswitch isn't working properly or the wire from it isn't getting to the relay. i would suggest taking this wire off the relay and using a multi meter to test what is happening at it when the lights are up and down, the post the results of that test.

oh, and one more thing, it says that you have power running directly from the battery... once its working, it will be possible to leave the lights on when the car is off... i guess its just a matter of preferance, but i would rather have the lights turn themselves off when i turn the car off, this would be done by running what is now the battery wire to the ignition. and it says "this has power coming from the battery + side" it sounds like its just a wire from the battery terminal, if that is the case, make sure it has a fuse.

[fsrowsell]

OK, this morning I ran some test and came to the conclusion the I am nor receiving any power from my hi beam switch on the steering wheel (green wire) that goes to the 86 terminal on relay #2. What I did to prove this was I crossed 30 with 86 on relay #2 and the lights came on. How do I fix this problem? Thanks Felix

[simplemind7]

i'm not really sure how the high/low beam switch works, i assumed that it was normally no voltage going through it, then when it was switched to high beam it would get voltage... someone else will have to fill in exactly how its supposed to work.

one thing i'm still puzzled about is how neither the low or high beams comes on when terminal 30 has voltage, since there will either be a connection from 30 to 87a or 87 at all times. try this, reverse the high beam and low beamwires on terminals 87a and 87, if the lights come on, then your wiring is bad, if the lights stay off, then your relay is bad.

[gr_diver]

In my 78 Ascona, when you turn the rotary main headlight switch to the II position (low/high beam), ONLY ONE CABLE GETS POWER. This cable goes to the steering coloumn switch, which during operation routes voltage to either the low OR high beam cabling. The only moment that both have power is when you use the signal position of the steering switch with the low-beam on. Now I assume that there might be some differences with the GT, as I see a microswitch that I am unaware of it's function.


When I did the relay mod a month ago, I initially used a circuit I found that uses old low beam cable to turn on the first relay, which acts as an on/off and feeds the second relay with power, and then the old high beam cable to control the second relay for output 87A for low and 87 for high beam. This setup would not work, because when I selected high beam, the healights would go completely off, as there was no voltage then at the low beam cable to keep the first relay on. In addition this setup would disable the signal function when the low beam is off.
So I rewired the relays, like in the schematic below. The first relay only controls low beam, and the second only controls high beam. Has worked like a champ!

HTH

[fsrowsell]

HTH, thanks for your reply for help... I'm at a wits in with these headlights... This morning I tried your schematic and headlights came on when I turn the key on..... BUT, when I clicked on the L/H beam switch the lights went out and only would come on again by me turning the key off and then back on. At least I'm getting closer then before. I rechecked all the connection to make sure they were just like your schematic. Also when I pull in on the L/H beam switch my white light on the dash would get brighter and when I hold the handle in. it also stays on, but dim when the lights are on after pull in on the switch. Any ideas? Bad ground some where or somethings like that.... Thanks Felix

[gr_diver]

I confess that I have not followed the thread from the beginning. You are mentioning the key, affecting headlights. Why is this happening? Are you running lights from switched source? So that they go out when you kill the engine? Or are they day running lights?

Are you sure you have independent +12 source to both relays? I mean, not feed the hi-beam relay through 87 or 87a of the low beam relay? Cause what you describe reminds me of the occasion I described in my earlier post, that switching to hi killed the whole system. In addition, what I have marked as "old" connection in the schematic, are actually the cables going to the headlights, just before the factory splice at the front end... And then the "new" are connected just before the factory splice that the "olds" were going to... DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE COLOURS I USED, THEY WERE RANDOM AS I DON'T KNOW GT WIRING.

In addition I am aware of a headlight relay and microswitches in some GTs, but I am anaware of their function (I have an Ascona). But if you do the mod right before the healights as I described, you will have completely unaffected switch circuitry, plus all the advantages of relays... Has any Previous Owner modified any electrics in the vehicle? Or are the microswitches and stock relay setup working properly? You should start from there...

Try this, with low beam on, gently pull the level to operate the "signal" function, before is engages the steady hi beam. This way the low should not turn off, and the hi would light for as long as you keep the lever there...

By the was, HTH means Hope This Helps, the name is Antony!!!! I'm glad I even took you a step closer.

[fsrowsell]

Thanks to everyones help and input I HAVE MY HEADLIGHTS WORKING!!! I am so happy to be able to drive around town again and not have to rush home before dark.... '
Anthony, like I said earlier I rewired it your way earlier and I had the problem Of the lights going out when I hit my hight beams. (By the way the GT's Head lights only come on when the key is on). I narrowed it down that is must be a problem with the microswitch. So, I found Gotrdan's(Classicopels) method of by pass the microcwitch and hooking the head lights up to the running lights switch. So now with the headlights up, I can turn them off and on by using the running lights switch. Thanks again everyone. Happy motoring Felix

[gr_diver]

Glad I could help!!!

Happy night driving!!!!

[opelbits]

Just rewired my headlights, so I thought I would add a couple of things.

The first thing is that I used the stock Opel headlight system to switch the additional relays. I cut the high and low beam feeds for the driver's side headlight and used each one to switch it's own relay. As long as your microswitches and everything else works like it should, this is a very simple way to control the headlights and retain the stock dimmer/hi-beam switch and indicator light.

I noticed in this thread that all the relays talked about have an 87 and an 87a terminal. One is normally open, the normally closed. This requires splicing the two low beams together and the two hi beams together. In my rewiring job, I ran individual wires, two low beam, two beam to the two relays. It seems like more work, but it really isn't and it allows for easier troubleshooting.
The relays I used are headlight/fog/driving light relays. They have two 87 terminals, both are normally off. They are about $5 at you not-so-finer autoparts stores.

Additionally, I remember someone saying to use SO cord (12/3: 12 gauge, 3 conductor). I did a little searching and found SOOW cord. The first O means the outer cord cover is abration resistant (among other things). The second O means the insulation on each individual conductor (each of the three wires inside) is also abration resistant (again, among other things).
It is VERY flexible. It works perfectly.
I found it at Grainger. Relatively cheap.


Now for my question, does anyone see any issues with the materials or method to turn on the lights? In other words, what am I not taking into account that I should? By the way, this is on the '69 GT I have.

Oh, and one more thing, I will have some pics later that show the condition of the old wires and also the '69 type headlight plugs.

[opelbits]

I have uploaded pics of the wiring removed from my '69. You can see the spots that were rubbed bare on all three wires. This was up inside the rotator mechanism where you can't see it. I didn't know about the bare spots, I just figured I should replace the wires to be safe.

I also have a couple of pics of the headlight wires on my latest GT purchase. The wires look REALLY bad. Several inches of crumbling insulation, bare wire that is green with corrosion. The funny thing is, this is not the original wiring as someone has replaced it.

Plus, I have a few pics of the headlight plugs from the '69 GT.

All the pics are in my Member's Album.

[opelbits]

The latest thing I have noticed since rewiring the headlights....
My turn signal indicator lights are operating more as they should. I used to get the 'double flash' syndrome. Turn the signal stalk and I would get one good flash, then both dash indicator lights would flash, rather weakly, too. Now, they are much more likely to remain one dash light flashing with it's respective exterior lights. I still sometimes get the double flash, but it is the exception, now.

[rsefczek]

got to spend the day working on my gt and decided to tackle the headlight (or lack thereof) issue as part of the overall rewire. after much fussing and fuming (accessing the microswitches is a major pain) i finally finished wiring but still had no lights. using other posts and my multimeter i finally tracked it down to the headlight relay (thank god the microswitches are okay!). would it be better to buy a new one or used ebay one or...chuck the stock relay setup since it's dead anyway and put in new relays as per earlier in this post (i think page one post #8). if i understand it correctly the only real downside is that the parking lights won't come on automatically with the headlamps. any suggestions??

bob

[opelbits]

Bob-
Lucky you! After all the work I did, my lights do not want to come on. I checked my relay and had NO power coming from the microswitch. I remember the relay being slow, but this means I get to dive in to fix the microswitch, THEN find out if the relay is any good.

When you rewired the headlights, did you just replace the wiring or did you install relays and fuses, also? If you have, then getting a new headlight relay from OGTS is probably the least hassle and best choice. I don't have a problem with the parking lights as I use the stock headlight relay and wiring with individual hi and low relays up near the brake master area.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by opelbits I remember the relay being slow, but this means I get to dive in to fix the microswitch, THEN find out if the relay is any good.

To check out the relay to see if it's working is a simple task. Just run a jumper from a 12 volt source to the yellow/black wire on the relay. If the lites come on the relay is working. You don't even have to have the key on for this.

[opelbits]

Yeah, I did that. I first found it with a test light, then use the jumper to make sure.
The reason I suspect my relay is that prior to doing the rewire of the headlights, it would sometimes take awhile before the relay would 'click', like it was slow. It varied, sometimes no problem at all, other times it would take up to a minute. That could be a microswitch issue, along with the current problem of no voltage on the microswitch wire, but I won't know until I take care of the no voltage issue.

[namba209]

That sounds like the infamous sticking microswitch. The cause is usually because it's gunked up and the plunger can't make contact inside the switch housing. Bummer, the only way to clean them is to pull the rotating mechanism. Not my idea of a fun thing to do.

[rsefczek]

i replaced the fuse box and all the wires. only then did i find out the relay was dead (thank goodness it isn't the microswitch, they were a bugger to get to and worse to reinstall). still uncertain about replacing the original relay versus rewiring using conventional relays. i kinda like having the running lights turn on with the headlights versus having to switch them on....on the other hand, finding a replacement original is expensive ($45 at gtsource) and they don't come up on ebay too often.

bob

[asdasc]

I agree with you. I had the same issue with my relay going bad. I bought a Radio Shack relay and it works fine, but as you say, it doesn't have enough outputs so I have to turn on the running lights with the dash switch. Not a big problem, but not ideal. The other option is to parallel 2 of the radio shack relays to get the right number of outputs. I had planned to, but my Radio Shack didn't have enough of them in stock, so I have never gotten back around to it.

The way I did it was simple and left all the stock wiring intact so that if ever I do want to I can replace the stock relay and be original. I also added a fuse to the supply to the relays which should protect everything, high and low beams.

Thanks,

[MICAH1]

I have read this thread and tried some of the suggestions, but can not get my lights right!! First, let me set the stage.........

1. My micro switch is stuck on close (lights always on) so I have installed a on/off switch for the headlights.

2. Have also spliced into the wiring harness and connected the yellow and white headlight wires to separate 30 amp relays (see photo and diagrams).

3. Followed the basic setup that Soybean (Jarrell) did for his headlights to include running an extension of the positive (+) battery cable to a terminal block to feed the fuse, and relay blocks.

4. When I turn the key, the low beams are on......... without me engaging the on/off switch for the headlights.

5. If I pull the high beam lever the light will go out. I can then engage the on/off switch and all is fine.

6. When I start the engine the low beams come on, and #4 and #5 process is repeated, EXCEPT ......... when I engage the high beam the light goes out but then goes dim to bright!!!!!!

MY QUESTION IS, WHY IS POWER GOING TO THE LOW BEAM WHEN I TURN THE KEY, BUT HAVE NOT ENGAGED THE HEADLIGHT ON/OFF SWITCH????

[namba209]

Thomas, reading my trusty DESTEC schematic, and your post, I must ask if you removed the Yellow/White wire from the headlight relay or just spliced into it. If you did not remove the wire from the relay, and your right headlight microswitch is stuck in the NO (normally open) position, that energizes the headlight dimmer relay and your lites will come on with the key on. You can thank Opel for using a 12G wire for that microswitch otherwise you could have an insulation breakdown and subsequent electrical fire. In a previous thread, discussing using relays for the headlights, we determined that only one relay was needed for the headlights, if the hi-lo dimmer relay was used, but what you have will work nicely.

[MICAH1]

Ron,
I cut the yellow wire and the white wire (high and low lights), connecting the top half to position 86 on the relays, and the lower white and yellow wires to position 87 on the relays... as shown in the illustration.

Before I put the relays under the hood for the headlights, the on and off switch worked just fine. Not untill I included the relays did I encounter the key in, lights on problem...

[namba209]

Thomas I re-edited my original post after looking at what you have again and re-thinking what my DESTEC schematic showed me, but it didn't get saved. Anyway, lemme ask if you have 4 pin relays or 5 pin relays. If 5 pin, double check that you don't have one wire going to 87A on one relay.

Here's what I tried to edit into my previous post. With your microswitch stuck, you are powering the headlight relay and when you turn the key on, unless you disconnected the Yellow/Black wire at the headlight relay, the lites will come on. Once the Yellow/Black wire is disconnected, then use the Black wire at fuse #3 to power your headlight switch, then to pin #85 where the original Yellow/Black wire went on the original headlight relay. This puts the relay back in to its original function to power all the lights and puts power to the dimmer relay. Then you can use the original White and Yellow wires to trigger the relays, which you have already done. HTH.

[MICAH1]

I will try that in the a.m. and let you know what happens.. five pin relay. Did not use 87a on either relay.