Repair a Rear Wheel Fender Arch on a GT

[kwilford]

When I got my GT media blasted down to bare metal, it became obvious that I had more sheet metal repairs to do than I thought. One of the repairs that I had done at the start of the restoration (some 20 years ago, but who's counting) was to fabricate some new sheet metal around the wheel arches in the rear fenders. Back then, there simply wasn't an Internet, let alone the community that we have here now, so I "made do" with the skills I had (limited) and repaired the first photo with what shows in the second. It's actually not that bad, but not as good as the rest of the work justifies it to be.

So if anyone happened to have a parts car or spare passenger side rear fender that they are willing to cut a strip similar to what the third photo shows, I would like to buy it. I was lucky enough to get a DS from one of our members here (Opel_Kid aka Rex Miller) who cut one out of his parts GT (Thanks Rex!).

Rex's GT was fairly rusty, so the lower corner is rusted through, but will work fine as I really just needed the fender lip. He was able to cut it out with his Plasma cutter, but I think a sawz-all or jig saw would work as well. I would like to get both the inner and outer fender, so as to preserve the lip, which is what I had problems getting right when I fabricated the replacement pieces. Then I will weld it to the original metal a few inches away from the lip.

My price for such a thing depends on the quality of the part. If it is in really good shape, I would be willing to pay up to $100 plus shipping. I think it cost about $30 to mail it to me.

Thanks for your help, and please let me know by PM or by e-mail (kwilford"at"shaw.ca) if you have a potential donor arch.

[dallasmanta]

Keith call or pm Rodney in the dallas area he has a back yard full of what you need and the skills to cut the pieces you are looking for. he is the president of the texas club and has the killerGt with wide fenders on the posts. He sells when some one twists his arm ron

[kent]

Sorry for off post, but I'm curious what you paid to get the media blasting done?

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by dallasmanta Keith call or pm Rodney in the dallas area he has a back yard full of what you need and the skills to cut the pieces you are looking for. he is the president of the texas club and has the killerGt with wide fenders on the posts. He sells when some one twists his arm ron

I met Rodney (at the 2005 OMC Picnic) and even sat in his KillerGT. I have had a couple folks respond that they might have a wheel arch, but if it doesn't happen, I'll give Rodney a call.

Originally Posted by kent Sorry for off post, but I'm curious what you paid to get the media blasting done?

No worries, pretty much anything goes in the "General Discussions" Forum.
I had the hood and headlight buckets soda blasted earlier this year. That is even more gentle than the other "media" typically used, such as walnut shells or plastic. Because my GT had several layers of paint, the soda was pretty slow, and those items alone cost $300. That is documented a bit in post # 6 of
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2d-body...tml#post143358

There is quite a good thread on soda blasting and other media types at
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2d-body...-blasting.html

The concerns expressed there about soda getting trapped in seams and such and bleeding through didn't come to pass on my hood or headlight buckets, but I was VERY careful to remove all traces of the soda by thoroughly cleaning the items with compressed air and then neutralizing the bare metal with "Metal Prep".

To cut the cost of media blasting down, I sanded off as much of the paint and body filler as I could by using my right angle grinder and a sanding "flapper" disc. The media blaster guy, after seeing how little paint was left to remove, suggested we try a very fine sand (size "0" I believe) and be patient by keeping the air pressure as low as possible, the angle as high and the distance as great as possible. If he felt or we observed any warping occurring, we would finish off with soda. Well, we did the whole car with sand, and I am very happy with the results. He suggested that it would have cost about $1200 for soda, versus the $700 the sand cost. There are some photos in post #6 at
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/opel-st...t-rescued.html

Frankly, the sand does a better job of removing trace rust and even some of the filler and seam sealer than the soda. The soda is almost TOO gentle, but it certainly leaves the metal intact with far less risk. In this case, the blaster was very experienced, and as it was his own company, and he didn't have to remove several layers of paint and hence apply as much sand or pressure as he might have had to if I hadn't sanded the car down mostly first, the sand worked well. The photos of the wheel arch above is what it looked like after sanding before sand blasting.

In summary, I really like soda blasting for how gentle it is, especially when doing flat panels (such as the hood) that are prone to warping. But a good blaster can use fine sand if he takes his time and keeps the gun at an angle and at a distance, and the results can be better than soda, walnut shells or plastic, especially for removing rust.

HTH

[BQS4]

Keith;
How much of the fender lip do you need, I have this piece.
Gene

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by BQS4 Keith; How much of the fender lip do you need, I have this piece. Gene

Thanks Gene, but I need the rear portion, as shown by the red line drawn in the third photo in post #1. I can make do if the bottom corner is rusted, as the main problem is with the shape of the arch and the fender lip, which is easier to replicate as it gets flat. In a pinch, I could probably use the front portion of a Driver Side rear fender and rotate it, but I don't think I can use what you have. But again, thanks for the offer.

[opelbits]

Hi Keith-

I'm afraid the quarter I have is shot. It's rusty from the center of the wheel arch on back.

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by opelbits Hi Keith- I'm afraid the quarter I have is shot. It's rusty from the center of the wheel arch on back.

Thanks anyway, Tony. Anyone else out there with a beaten up but not so rusty as my GT?

[opel kid]

mine's really beat up body wize and has just a little rust !
i've been doing tons of body work,every time i fix a huge dent i find another one!
but it is way better than some 69's

[Killer Texas GT]

Kieth, I went around and checked all of the GT's for the right rear fender this is the best of the bunch. It is straight never been hit, has a slight upward ding in the bottom behind the wheel, with a rust out about 1" in dia. Here are a few pictures.

[Killer Texas GT]

here is where I plan to cut the fender and inner fender, all you will need to do is drill out the spot welds for the outer fender and at the inner fender, remove yours by cutting opposite side of mine. drill your spot welds out, match up the welds of the inner fender to your GT and wire weld back in same with the outer fender to the rear deck, rear panel, inner fender and door. From the different modifications that I have done on the GT all or 99.9% of the spot welds are in the same place, make easy to line up.

[kwilford]

Thanks Rodney, that fender looks terrific. If you don't mind though, I want to minimize the extent of the metal transplant to just the arch, as my existing fender is in pretty good shape. What I would like is shown in the attached photo, with a cut through both inner and outer fenders in about the same place. I think that the width should be almost exactly 4 inches, as measured from the arch edge. That will give me sufficient width to cut the existing fender back and give a small overlap (I have a flanging tool to make the lap joint flat). I am going to separate the inner and outer panels by drilling out the spot welds along the lip, and then re-attach both individually (inner first, then outer).

Please let me know by PM or e-mail (kwilford"at"shaw.ca) how much you want for the arch and how to pay you, and I'll provide my mailing information.

Thanks!

[Killer Texas GT]

Keith can you provide more information as to where you want the cuts to be per the attached. I just need to make sure you get the cuts made at the points you need and can work with the easiest. Won't make any difference in price where you choose to have them made.

[kwilford]

Thanks Rodney. Yes, I understand that this wrecks an entire fender, so if you had one in "not so good but still pretty good" shape, perhaps with some rust at the back bottom corner, that would work as well, and leave this pretty good fender for a more needy GT (like the one being asked for in the Classified Ads). That was the problem with the fender that Opelsun has in nearby in Edmonton; it was the entire fender, right up into the roof-line. That fender is totally rust-free (came off his cut-up race car, never seen rain except on the track!) and he wanted what an entire pristine fender might be worth. I am under a bit of a budget though, so $100 plus shipping is my limit. Hopefully that is in your asking price range.

I have attached two photos that should show you where to make the cuts. I won't cut my fender out until I get the replacement so I can adjust where my cuts are to best fit the new panel. The red lines follow a scribe mark I made with a 4 inch width, that nicely lines up with the rear inside corner. I probably won't replace that inside corner, as mine is in good shape, so if the panel cut leaves that behind, no worries.

One question. Do you or anyone else have a suggestion as to the best way to fit the new arch? I was originally going to try to attach it as one piece, both inner and outer, into the space created by removing the old piece. But I am worried about getting it to fit properly in place. So I am considering drilling out the spot welds on the replacement arch (the only ones left are where they join at the fender lip) to split them so I can fit them individually and then join them back together at the lip by plug welding the drilled out spot welds (I have a proper spot weld cutter and also a plug-weld clamp). After thinking about it some more, I plan to attach the outer panel first to get the alignment correct, then the inner panel to fit as required.

Comments?

[Killer Texas GT]

Keith, here is what I suggest as how to solve your dilemma of alignment: I will cut the inner fender on the back side of the seem running about the center of the inner fender you cut yours off on the opposite side, at the point you want to make your lap joint with your offset roller make the off set. Drill out the spot welds of each inner fender leaving the car side solid and the donor inner fender drill through it, then match up the spot welds and then plug weld your inner fender first and then your lap weld. Now attach the outer fender as you said. The spot weld locations will match no matter what year it is. That is how I did the chop and channel on my GT, I tubbed the inner fender out from the center point I am talking about and just added another outside inner fender to it at that point followed by the outer fender then channeled in a piece of sheet metal to tie the outer fenders together on top. Also ither use sheet metal screw or pop rivets for fit up be for you weld, I will send some screws with the fender for you. Price is the same how ever you want it cut. As for the other guy looking for fenders I will get in touch with him. I plan on doing another all metal flare job on another of my GT's and still run across others that I generally pick up for little or nothing for them, most times for free, be it GT's, Kadett's, Manta's or Ascona's. That is one reason I have so many.

[kwilford]

Since I was doing metal work on my GT this weekend anyway, I decided to start with the Drivers Side wheel arch, using the arch that Rex sent me.

First, I separated the inner and outer fender pieces by drilling out the spot welds (photo #1). Then I cleaned up the rusty edges and coated them with rust neutralizer (phosphoric acid) and a zinc-rich weld through primer.

Then I laid the outer skin over the fender arch, ensuring that it was at the correct position (I measured it from the bottom rear corner before I separated the skins) and marked the outline on the car, and marked 1/2" strip for the overlap (photo #2). I then marked the same outline for the inner skin, including the overlap.

Next I cut out the old arch with my plasma cutter (borrowed from the Vintage Sports Car Club of Calgary I belong to). I made sure that the cuts on the inner and outer were aligned, as the plasma cutter will cut through both skins where they are close together at the top of the arch (photos #3)

Finally, I clamped the new outer skin in place and stitch MIG-welded around the edge. The photo #4 shown is just the stitches and some seam welds before grinding smooth
(photo #4)

The final step will be to weld the inner skin in place. The last photo shows it almost in place but not yet welded. I just have to position it, plug weld the drilled out spot welds, then stitch and seam weld it.

So after all this, Rodney, I think I still just want the arch dimensions I showed above, at 4 inches wide rather than the full width. The Passengers Side is almost exactly the same repair, and this worked really slick. The arch alignment was actually quite easy and it looks really good. To cut out a bigger piece just means that a bigger box will be needed, and probably a higher shipping cost.

Thanks!

[tomking]

Hey Keith, can you show me a picture of the plug weld clamp? Thanks.
(I have a proper spot weld cutter and also a plug-weld clamp).

[Killer Texas GT]

Keith good looking job, okay on the cuts and on the size you need, now that I see how good your metal and body skills are I can pick another fender out that will be better suited for your needs and abilities. So I will get you one picked out and cut either today or tomorrow as Otto is coming over today to rummage parts which means we do more discussions on ideas of possible up coming projects that I really don't get much work done. But his visits always end up with some great ideas that we try out. I will kick you a picture this after noon. And send you a PM on price and payment that I know will work well with in your budget.
Again good looking job on the left side fender, I didn't realize you were that talented, and my suggestions where to make it as easy as possible for those not as skilled. If you know what I mean, not to insult any of the people of the group but everybodys skills are not the same, and if one has not seen their talents then one tends to make things as easy as possible so they don't screw up their project.
rk

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by tomking Hey Keith, can you show me a picture of the plug weld clamp? Thanks. (I have a proper spot weld cutter and also a plug-weld clamp).

Sure. I just bought this plug-weld clamp, and also a proper spot weld cutter. In times past, I simply drilled out the spot welds with a regular drill bit, and used whatever clamps I could rustle up. The spot weld cutter cuts out a ring-circle in the top sheet, leaving the lower sheet intact with the centre of the circle still spot welded on. In this case, I ground the circles off, as the inner and outer panels don't quite line up perfectly in their new location, but if you wanted to remove or separate a panel and then put it back in exactly the same place, this is the ticket!

The first photo shows the spot weld cutter, and the second how it leaves the centre of the weld behind.

The third and fourth photos are of the plug-weld clamp. It uses a copper base that helps prevent burning through the base panel when the plug weld is made.

Since this is turning into a bit of a photo-editorial, I'll also post photos of some of the other tools that I am using to do the metal repair work on my GT. You don't really need all of them, or at least I was able to make do without almost any of them on the first car I did pretty extensive rust repairs on. That was a '61 Austin Healey Bugeyed Sprite I had in high school (over 30 years ago!), which I did the first time with hand snips, aluminum sheet and pop rivets. And LOTS of bondo. Wait, I learned my lesson! The next time I used an oxyacetylene torch, steel sheet and braze. Brass and steel rusts almost as badly as aluminum on steel! That progressed to a MIG welder and some more hand tools, which was on my GT about 20 years ago. Now, well, the next set of photos show what fills my garage up...

[kwilford]

The following is what I am mainly using for these repairs.

The first photo is another one of the spot weld cutter. These were only $7 for both, and they are double sided so when one side gets wrecked (and the right one already has lost a couple of teeth) you just unscrew the cutter and use the other side. The pointy end is used to center the cutter on the weld (which I center-punched first) and it retracts to allow the cutter to cut while it holds the cutter in place.

The next photo shows some of the clamps that make metal work a bit easier. The left hand ones are new to me, but make this type of metal work much easier. Especially the clamp second from the right, which wraps inside the two panels in the fender lip and pulls them together. The big C-clamp is probably the most useful overall, as I have several of them, and one that has a reach of almost 10 inches for reaching deep inside a fender.

The next photo is of three pretty useful tools. The bottom one is an air snip, which has already saved me a number of stitches (as in the medical variety) during this job. Next up is a new body saw I just bought, and it is TERRIFIC for cutting out rusted panels and such. The top tool is a flanger, and allows the edge of one panel to be "flanged" downward so that a lap joint can be flush. This one is an accessory to my hammer tool, and not as convenient as purpose-built flangers. I have only used this a couple of times, as it can be hard to get to fit the panel that needs to be flanged.

Next up is a tool I just borrowed for this job: a plasma cutter. This is an AMAZING tool. It runs on 110 volt, and cuts through sheet metal like a hot knife through butter. Almost TOO easy, so you have to be careful where you point it and what is behind the panel you are cutting. But it is fast and accurate and cut out that wheel arch in about three minutes, both inner and outer sides. I think I might put this on my Christmas list.

Last is a tool we talk a lot about here, and is way under-rated: a MIG welder. Mine is an old Clarke, and is really a POS. It does a decent job of light structural welding using flux-core 0.035" wire (like my body dolly and body rotisserie, which are REALLY nice to have had for this job), but sucked for body sheet metal welding. But when I converted it to run on Gas and 0.023" wire, it is actually pretty good. Not as good as the Club's Lincoln with infinite heat and voltage control, but good enough for me to use whenever I need it. A better one is on the list, but a ways down.

Anyway, I hope that you find this informative, and good luck with your body repairs.

[tomking]

Thanks Keith, had never seen a plug weld clamp. Guess i will have to get me one.

[Killer Texas GT]

Keith sorry about not posting sooner Monday was hectic,had to get the wife from the Airport, Tuesday was just a long hard day at work. but here they are. Oh and I tried getting the pictures to through the email address you gave me but to no avail.

[kwilford]

That looks like it should work Rodney, thanks! Please let me know the total when you determine the cost to ship it. I think Rex sent his via USPS, and it was $27 for an eight lb package that took about 10 days. If you find this package a lot different, please let me know.

Oh, and my e-mail is kwilford"at"shaw.ca in case I typed it wrong before.

Thanks again!

[jeff denton]

Nice work! The rotisserie is kind of handy, huh? Would it be very fun doing this job without it?

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by jeff denton Nice work! The rotisserie is kind of handy, huh? Would it be very fun doing this job without it?

The rotisserie is, without a shadow of a doubt, the very BESTEST thing I have ever built. First, I was able to get the body properly sand-blasted to remove just about all the rust, paint, seam sealer and filler and it was SO much better to be able to rotate the body in every which way to get at the deepest corners.

I finished the DS wheel arch off the other night, and I was able to weld the inner panel in place with a proper seam weld, and also fill all the plug welds for the drilled out spot welds, PERFECTLY. Well, as perfectly as my skills allow, which is a TONNE better when I am welding with the sparky end pointing down rather than up and away from where I can stick my helmeted head. Last might I fabricated and welded the little pieces to repair the rusted out bits behind the rear wheel. Normally, that would have been almost impossible, but by being able to rotate the body to whatever angle I needed to be able to access the inner corners, it too is a work of art. Well, maybe a fair imitation of a work of art.

Anyway, yes Jeff, the rotisserie is WONDERFUL.