Manta Front End Rebuild

[neuropel]

Was readying my car for Carlisle and found some front end gremlins. Rather than throwing it back together just to make the show, I decided to tear it apart and begin the rebuild (no use in doing everything twice). I've been reading numerous older posts and threads here, though most info is GT related. This is my first Manta front end work and I have some questions before spending the $500 or so in parts needed for the job.

I'll be going with the OGTS bushing set for the control arms and that seems pretty straight forward. Here are my main questions:

1). Sway Bar Bushings - I've read here that it's best to go with the rubber ones, but at which location - the body or the lower control arm or both? My stock bushings that attach the bar to the body look OK. Hard to tell the condition of swaybar-control arm bushings but I want to go ahead and do whatever I need to do while I have it apart.

2). Tie Rod ends. OGTS has the tie rod ends listed as discontinued (both inner and outer now). I've managed to find the outers listed through internet sources, but the inner ones seem impossible to find. Anyone?

I'll post additional questions I'm sure!
Todd

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by neuropel 1). Sway Bar Bushings - I've read here that it's best to go with the rubber ones, but at which location - the body or the lower control arm or both? My stock bushings that attach the bar to the body look OK. Hard to tell the condition of swaybar-control arm bushings but I want to go ahead and do whatever I need to do while I have it apart.

Replace the ones in the lower control arms. They do a lot more than just hold the sway bar in place, they locate the lower control arms and control caster changes. To give an idea of how sensitive your suspension is to these bushings being in perfect working order, consider this: I have had more than a few model 50's that had a front end vibration at certain speeds (usually 65-72 mph). In almost every case, after checking every nut and bolt on the front end with a torque wrench, the culprit was the torque spec on the sway bar-to-control arm bushings. On one car in particular, one of these bolts was only 75 ft lbs....I torqued it to the proper 87 ft lbs, and the vibration went away completely. The point is, worn bushings here will adversely affect everything in the front suspension's capability to do it's job. Change them. Note: they are rather pricey, but they should last you the rest of your lifetime of driving Opels.

Although the rear bushings on the front sway bar are not as prone to this phenomenon, I'd consider changing them too. I mean, once the bar is off the car and the forward bushings are removed, now's the time to do it!

2). Tie Rod ends. OGTS has the tie rod ends listed as discontinued (both inner and outer now). I've managed to find the outers listed through internet sources, but the inner ones seem impossible to find. Anyone? I'll post additional questions I'm sure! Todd

Inners rarely wear to the point of needing replacement. In fact I've personally never replaced one as a wear-item, only matter-of-factly during a complete overhaul. Outers on the other hand tend to go fast, especially with a modified suspension and sticky tires. I used to go through left hand outers every 20-30k when I used to run road courses a lot (running slicks with all right hand turns).

Bob

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Replace the ones in the lower control arms. They do a lot more than just hold the sway bar in place, they locate the lower control arms and control caster changes. To give an idea of how sensitive your suspension is to these bushings being in perfect working order, consider this: I have had more than a few model 50's that had a front end vibration at certain speeds (usually 65-72 mph). In almost every case, after checking every nut and bolt on the front end with a torque wrench, the culprit was the torque spec on the sway bar-to-control arm bushings. On one car in particular, one of these bolts was only 75 ft lbs....I torqued it to the proper 87 ft lbs, and the vibration went away completely. The point is, worn bushings here will adversely affect everything in the front suspension's capability to do it's job. Change them. Note: they are rather pricey, but they should last you the rest of your lifetime of driving Opels.

Which ones do you recommend Bob? OGTS offers a German Re-issue rubber version that's $59 and there's also a Poly version that's $19.95. By pricey, I take it the rubber one is the one to go with?

Although the rear bushings on the front sway bar are not as prone to this phenomenon, I'd consider changing them too. I mean, once the bar is off the car and the forward bushings are removed, now's the time to do it! Bob

I don't see these listed on the OGTS website. Where do we get them?

Thanks for the info!
Todd K.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by neuropel Which ones do you recommend Bob? OGTS offers a German Re-issue rubber version that's $59 and there's also a Poly version that's $19.95. By pricey, I take it the rubber one is the one to go with?

Yes, the rubber version is a bit stiffer than OEM, but does not bind as much as polyurethane tends too.

I don't see these listed on the OGTS website. Where do we get them?

I'm pretty sure they're available aftermarket from OGTS, even though they're not listed. If not there are ways to make a polyurethane replacement from an off-the-shelf bushing. I've been doing it for 15+ years this way.

[Bill Hoffmann]

Originally Posted by RallyBob I'm pretty sure they're available aftermarket from OGTS, even though they're not listed. If not there are ways to make a polyurethane replacement from an off-the-shelf bushing. I've been doing it for 15+ years this way.

Gil has reproduced the sway bar to body bushings. I bought a pair from him last year.

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by Bill Hoffmann Gil has reproduced the sway bar to body bushings. I bought a pair from him last year.

Are they poly or rubber?
Thanks!

[Bill Hoffmann]

Originally Posted by neuropel Are they poly or rubber? Thanks!

They are hard rubber. I think harder than original, but it's hard to compare new with old.

[Bill Hoffmann]

Originally Posted by Bill Hoffmann They are hard rubber. I think harder than original, but it's hard to compare new with old.

I remembered I had an NOS bushing to compare to. I also had a used bushing in the box. The used bushing is intact, not torn, but the hole is somewhat enlarged from wear. It is the softest of the three. It was clean and dry, but sometimes oil finds its way on these bushings and that can soften them. Next hardest would be the OGTS reproductions. They are well made, however, and even have the embedded metal on the top like the original. The NOS bushing is hardest, no doubt. If it was always that hard or age has affected it I don't know.

Based on that, I'm sure the reproductions will be better than what's on your car, especially if they are original.

[neuropel]

I've managed to remove all the control arm bolts with little difficulty (gotta love air tools!). The sway-bar-to-control-arm bolts were toughest.
Before I do my typical stunt of breaking stuff, how do I remove the sway bar from the lower control arms now that I have the bolts out? Does it have to be pried out?

Also, for the control arm bushings, is it best to burn them out? That was the method recommended years ago when I was replacing the bushings in GT control arms.

Todd

[Paul]

Todd,

Put the sway bar to LCA bolt back in about half way. Now go get a big hammer and pound away. Just remember don't do anything to destroy the threads inside the end of the bar.

Oh yea use lots of PB Blaster

[Gary]

Originally Posted by neuropel ...Also, for the control arm bushings, is it best to burn them out? That was the method recommended years ago when I was replacing the bushings in GT control arms.Todd

I just did the control arm bushings. I drilled several holes through the rubber with a small drill bit, then pushed the bushing out on a shop press. The holes gave some movement to the rubber and helped to break them free. Much easier and cleaner than burning.

I picked up a 20 ton press at a swap meet last January. Cannot believe how many times i have used it already. Sure does beat the old bolt and socket in a vise trick!

[namba209]

Todd, if you have a Dremel or similar hi-speed moto-tool your can use the Dremel spiral saw, it's almost like a drill bit but much coarser and the cutting edge is all along the flutes, and just slide it along the rubber and it will take it out nicely. Similar to drilling a bunch of holes in the bushing, but just one action. Run the bit down into the rubber then just go around the center and your done. As with the GT bushings you'll need to clean up the excess with an exacto knife, but it's a lot cleaner and faster than either burning or using a small drill bit lotsa times. HTH.

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by namba209 Todd, if you have a Dremel or similar hi-speed moto-tool your can use the Dremel spiral saw, it's almost like a drill bit but much coarser and the cutting edge is all along the flutes, and just slide it along the rubber and it will take it out nicely. Similar to drilling a bunch of holes in the bushing, but just one action. Run the bit down into the rubber then just go around the center and your done. As with the GT bushings you'll need to clean up the excess with an exacto knife, but it's a lot cleaner and faster than either burning or using a small drill bit lotsa times. HTH.

Ron, this sounds like an excellent idea! Thanks for sending it along. Yet another use for a Dremel!

Todd