front addco sway bar reasurrance

[Dale .D]

Hi everyone .getting the front & rear anti sway bars installed by an alignment shop.They called while I was out & talked to my wife & wanted me to talk to them regarding something to do with how the car would handle with the front anti sway bar.The rear ones in already.Is there something I should be concerned about?Just want to be reasured that a stock suspention 71 gt is fine with both front & rear addco bars.Thanks for any comments.

[jeff denton]

My car really liked it. So much that I would next want to try the OGTS version, which is a larger diameter, thus stiffer, as I understand.
We have it set up a little differently than what would normally be done for street use, we have it slightly preloaded. But we found that through the turns it was causing the entire front end (both sides) to dive about a half inch more. That's a good thing, especially in a car that is touchy about pushing. Sorry I can't report on how it might help in a right hand turn, I've never tried that in a GT.

[deaner]

Installing sway bar's to your GT will be one of the best single suspention mod you can do. The car should have come stock with one IMHO. I agree with Jeff about the the one from Opel GT Source.

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by Dale .D Hi everyone .getting the front & rear anti sway bars installed by an alignment shop.They called while I was out & talked to my wife & wanted me to talk to them regarding something to do with how the car would handle with the front anti sway bar.The rear ones in already.Is there something I should be concerned about?

BEEP NO install them and enjoy.
Theres only two alignment settings on the GT ..camber and toe.
Toe 1/8 in
camber theres only two settings go for the most negative for handling.
For tire wear as close to zero as possible..but you'll get some squirm.
Now for the bad part if the ball joints,tie rod ends, or the bushing are loose...

[Dale .D]

Originally Posted by Dale .D Hi everyone .getting the front & rear anti sway bars installed by an alignment shop.They called while I was out & talked to my wife & wanted me to talk to them regarding something to do with how the car would handle with the front anti sway bar.The rear ones in already.Is there something I should be concerned about?Just want to be reasured that a stock suspention 71 gt is fine with both front & rear addco bars.Thanks for any comments.

Thanks .Feeling better.From other stuff I've read it seems that normally the installation of the sway bar would cause even more understeer but because of some shortcommings of the front ends of the opel gt that I don't understand it actually makes it better.Keep the info & first hand experiences comming

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by Dale .D Thanks .Feeling better.From other stuff I've read it seems that normally the installation of the sway bar would cause even more understeer but because of some shortcommings of the front ends of the opel gt that I don't understand it actually makes it better.Keep the info & first hand experiences comming

It's all personal driving preference
I like mine a little on the loose side..backend comes around before the front.
That way I can hit the brakes and make the front turn.
Dirt is in my blood

[jordan]

Originally Posted by wrench459 BEEP NO install them and enjoy. Theres only two alignment settings on the GT ..camber and toe. Toe 1/8 in camber theres only two settings go for the most negative for handling. For tire wear as close to zero as possible..but you'll get some squirm. Now for the bad part if the ball joints,tie rod ends, or the bushing are loose...

Actually camber, caster, and toe are adjustable on a gt's front suspension. The castor is adjustable with shims on the upper control arm and makes a very big difference; negative caster and more toe in will make a much more rapid turn and also recenter much better. I prefer the handling is this configuration much more over stock.

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by jordan negative caster and more toe in will make a much more rapid turn and also recenter much better. I prefer the handling is this configuration much more over stock.

apples and oranges again
POSITIVE caster will center the wheel back faster. IMOA
All personal preference of course.
Bottom line we now how to tweek the front end
And your going to ask a flat rate mechanic to do what?
On this side of the pond it only cost 49.99-79.99 for a typical two wheel
First question ? whats an Opel they dont have a clue ..
And you what them to align the frontend ohhh dont get me started.. do I need to talk about four wheel alignments?

[newman27]

You can go faster around corners - what's not to like? I like 'em!

Matt

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by jordan Actually camber, caster, and toe are adjustable on a gt's front suspension. The castor is adjustable with shims on the upper control arm and makes a very big difference; negative caster and more toe in will make a much more rapid turn and also recenter much better. I prefer the handling is this configuration much more over stock.

Positive caster will self center far better. Negative caster will make the front end turn in faster, but it will be twitchy.

The down side to more positive caster is increased steering effort, however the biggest benefit (and the reason I always max a GT's caster) is that there is a bit of negative camber gain to be had by running a lot of positive caster. So you can reduce static negative caster which improves tire wear and straight line braking due to better contact patch, but keep the handling when pushed hard.

As far as toe adjustment goes, for any street car you really must run toe-in. Toe-out aids steering response for racing, but it is twitchy and will follow every groove on a roadway. It also wears tires amazingly fast...

GT's don't need much toe-out anyway, they have plenty of Ackerman built into the steering geometry (inside tire turns more degrees than outside tire in a curve). However, Kadetts have different steering arms, and not only is the steering slower (longer arms), but there is virtually no Ackerman.

Bob

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Positive caster will self center far better. Negative caster will make the front end turn in faster, but it will be twitchy. The down side to more positive caster is increased steering effort, however the bigget benefit (and the reason I always max a GT's caster) is that there is a bit of negative camber gain to be had by running a lot of positive caster. So you can reduce static negative caster which improves tire wear and straight line braking due to better contact patch, but keep the handling when pushed hard. As far as toe adjustment goes, for any street car you really must run toe-in. Toe-out aids steering response for racing, but it is twitchy and will follow every groove on a roadway. It aso wears tires amazingly fast... GT's don't need much toe-out anyway, they have plenty of Ackerman built into the steering geometry (inside tire turns more degrees than outside tire in a curve). However, Kadetts have different steering arms, and not only is the steering slower (longer arms), but there is virtually no Ackerman. Bob

Interesting I learned something tonight Thanks Bob
Toe is the major cause of tire wear hands down..be it out or in.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by RallyBob The down side to more positive caster is increased steering effort, however the biggest benefit (and the reason I always max a GT's caster) is that there is a bit of negative camber gain to be had by running a lot of positive caster. So you can reduce static negative caster which improves tire wear and straight line braking due to better contact patch, but keep the handling when pushed hard. Bob

Bob,
Didn't you mean to say Camber here?

[opelgt722002]

Originally Posted by Dale .D Hi everyone .getting the front & rear anti sway bars installed by an alignment shop.They called while I was out & talked to my wife & wanted me to talk to them regarding something to do with how the car would handle with the front anti sway bar.The rear ones in already.Is there something I should be concerned about?Just want to be reasured that a stock suspention 71 gt is fine with both front & rear addco bars.Thanks for any comments.

A booklet by Addco indicated that if your GT is lowered, you should adjust the length of the center bolt and tube spacer to accommodate the height change between the chassis and the suspension. Apparently, Addco sells urethane replacement end-links for this purpose.

[wrench459]

Nope Bob is right
Any changes in caster will effect camber.
Under heavy braking what's the ball joints doing.. even in a straight line?
And I don't care if you've got the best bushings known to man there going to move.

[Dale .D]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Positive caster will self center far better. Negative caster will make the front end turn in faster, but it will be twitchy. The down side to more positive caster is increased steering effort, however the biggest benefit (and the reason I always max a GT's caster) is that there is a bit of negative camber gain to be had by running a lot of positive caster. So you can reduce static negative caster which improves tire wear and straight line braking due to better contact patch, but keep the handling when pushed hard. As far as toe adjustment goes, for any street car you really must run toe-in. Toe-out aids steering response for racing, but it is twitchy and will follow every groove on a roadway. It also wears tires amazingly fast... GT's don't need much toe-out anyway, they have plenty of Ackerman built into the steering geometry (inside tire turns more degrees than outside tire in a curve). However, Kadetts have different steering arms, and not only is the steering slower (longer arms), but there is virtually no Ackerman. Bob

Well just got the caR BACK. what a friggon difference!!Hardly any body roll & I don't feel any understeering at all . Feels like a real sports car.Point & go.I love it .I got new bushings for upper & lower control arms & a few new tie rod ends & of coarse the front & rear addco anti sway bars & 4 wheel alignment. back was already dead on. This alignment shop does allot of classics so they were used to doing different vehicles all the time.They said the caster is on the high side & would need shims to really dial it in.By reading this should I just leave it without the shims.It sure does feel nice right now Gotta find some windy roads this morning!.thanks for the reasurance & advise everyone.pricey though,parts & labour ,pushing 1800$.Eh only live once!

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Paul Bob, Didn't you mean to say Camber here?

Yes I did, typo on my part.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by opelgt722002 A booklet by Addco indicated that if your GT is lowered, you should adjust the length of the center bolt and tube spacer to accommodate the height change between the chassis and the suspension. Apparently, Addco sells urethane replacement end-links for this purpose.

Yup, if the ride height is changed, the end links should be changed so that the sway bar 'arms' are parallel to the ground.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Dale .D & 4 wheel alignment. back was already dead on.

I hope they didn't charge you for a '4 wheel' alignment. Modern cars with independent rear suspension and adjustable toe links can be aligned out back. Primarily camber and toe.

But solid axle cars with fixed-length trailing arms and panhard bars cannot. They can check it, but they can't change the rear alignment without aftermarket (read as: custom-made) parts.

HTH,
Bob

[Dale .D]

Actually they did charge me for a 4 wheel alignment.I don't think it's much more money than a 2.I think it also reasures them that the frame is straight.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Dale .D Actually they did charge me for a 4 wheel alignment.I don't think it's much more money than a 2. I think it also reasures them that the frame is straight.

C'est vrai!

[jeff denton]

So what they did was check to see if the car is "square". Nothing wrong with that, but, what did they find and what would they do about it?
Glad you're happy with the sway bars. Once you understand exactly how the transverse front spring works (or doesn't) and what the sway bar can do to help it, it just makes sense to use it! I haven't tried a rear one, for what we do it shouldn't be needed. But you never know unless you try it, what works for some might not for another. Every car is different, every driver is different.

[GTRoy]

Does anyone have experience or theory re using front (front only) sway bar from 1.9 gt on 1.1? I have a used front & rear bar set complete except for rear axle welded brackets. Was a lighter/less stiff bar ever available for 1.1? Are aftermarket bars better for lighter car? Car is all stock except for p175/80r13 tires, no brute power here, but good front to rear weight balance, just looking for stability in the twistys. ??

[jordan]

Originally Posted by GTRoy Does anyone have experience or theory re using front (front only) sway bar from 1.9 gt on 1.1? I have a used front & rear bar set complete except for rear axle welded brackets. Was a lighter/less stiff bar ever available for 1.1? Are aftermarket bars better for lighter car? Car is all stock except for p175/80r13 tires, no brute power here, but good front to rear weight balance, just looking for stability in the twistys. ??

From know knowlege of suspension charicteristics and geometry (limited) the use of just the front anti sway bar will induce more understeer.

[BobCGT]

I have just the front swaybar installed on my GT at this time.
When I get the time I will add the rear.
So far,with just the front bar installed,I have noticed quite a bit of improvement in cornering...car stays a lot flatter.

[jeff denton]

As you go around a corner, the outside spring is taking all the body roll, so that side's suspension is going into "full bump". The sway bar takes some of that action and transfers it to the other side. Puts it into some "bump" also. The whole front end dives. Weight is transferred from the rear to the front, and if the setup is right, camber gain occurs at both front wheels. If the springs are stiff enough, neither side will hit the bump stops. If bump stops are hit, "push" will occur for sure.
To dial it in, one thing you must know is if the bump stops are being hit. Suspension travel measurements are helpful too. Anyone want to know an easy way to measure your front suspension travel?