Need Help removing Tie Rod End / Upper and Lower Ball Joints from Wheel Bracket

[Redskinsjbs]

I am dismantling my front suspension on my GT and I have ran into my first major hickup.

The four bolts that held in the leaf spring were removed with ease, as were the two spring eye bolts. Also, the giant bolt from He!! for the upper control arm came out like it had recently vacationed in heaven (that means it came out easy, no vacation blues for it)

So my problem is that all of the bolts that go through the big brackets which attach to the wheel are frozen. I am talking about the tie rod ends, and the ball joints. I have soaked them with penetrating oil for a couple of months, tapping them with a hammer almost everyday.

I haven't tried using heat because I don't know what it will do to those brackets.

Does anyone have any suggestions about what could possibly work to get the ball joints and tie rod end freed from this bracket?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs Does anyone have any suggestions about what could possibly work to get the ball joints and tie rod end freed from this bracket?

The bracket you are speaking of is the spindle (ball joints attach to this) and the steering arm (tie rod attaches to this). The ball joints and tie rods all have a 7 degree tapered fit into the spindle and steering arm, so they don't just 'fall apart' when you unbolt them. You must either use a 'pickle fork' (damages dust boots however), or a tie rod removal tool/ball joint removal tool specifically designed to separate them from the taper.

Since it's tough to justify the cost to purchase these tools for a one-time repair, I'd try renting them from a local auto parts store instead.

HTH,
Bob

[Redskinsjbs]

I have two other friends who are willing to split the cost of buying a tool or set of tools. They have a 1974 bmw 2002 and a 1967 morris minor. Do you think that this set would work for all of our cars?

Front End Service Kit | Astro Pneumatic | 7838

or this one is only $15. I know that you normally get what you pay for, but I only have to do it once (hopefully)

http://www.toolsource.com/ball-joint...0-p-94669.html

[Gordy]

I have and have used the ball joint pickle seperator. It works great on tie rod ends. I also am re-doing an extra front end I have so next spring will be able to drop the old one out complete from my GT and have all the new ready to go back in. I have my control arms up at my brother in law's shop and he torched out the old rubber bushings yesterday. I called OGTS to confirm that the "outer" metal sleeves of the old bushings need to remain intact in the arm for the use of the new hard bushings. Then all the parts will go down to the sandblaster to get cleaned up.

Has anyone used that POR 15 product at all? I know it is supposed to be good for floor pans etc that have some rust issues, but understand it is super durable as well. I want the suspension parts to end up looking "painted" not like they were undercoated or rhino-lined or Line-x'ed. Otherwise I will just primer them and good old Rustoleum paint I guess.

Found a site that has Red Koni shocks, set of 4, for $499 with free shipping for the GT. Anyone know of a site with a better deal? Don't expect you'd see them for too much less.

[heimue]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs or this one is only $15. I know that you normally get what you pay for, but I only have to do it once (hopefully)Tool Aid 61900 Tie Rod End / Ball Joint Lifter SGT61900

The 15$-tool will work just fine for you.

Originally Posted by Gordy Has anyone used that POR 15 product at all? I know it is supposed to be good for floor pans etc that have some rust issues, but understand it is super durable as well. I want the suspension parts to end up looking "painted" not like they were undercoated or rhino-lined or Line-x'ed. Otherwise I will just primer them and good old Rustoleum paint I guess.

POR 15 works very well. After comparing it, I have to say it works at least as good as powdercoating, but with one big advantage: You can use it whenever you want, and don't have to wait to do a batch of parts, and it is much cheaper. One advice: DO follow the instructions on the can down to the point. That includes reading the instructions first! You will regret it in many ways if you don't!

Dieter

[Jeepsbeme]

Although I have a pickle fork (tie rod end separator) in my collection, I rarely use it. I usually have better luck with the "two hammer approach". The best part is it doesn't damage the tie rod end (or the spindle) in the process!

Simply take two hammers, and hit the spindle (NOT the tie rod!) with them both simultaneously right where the tie rod passes through (at a right angle to the tie rod stem). Cast iron has a surprising amount of deflection, and these simulataneous impacts distort the spindle opening just enough to break the corrosion bond and the tie rod end usually drops right out with only a few coordinated hits.


Dieter is right about POR-15 too. It's hard to beat if you apply it as directed. The best part is that it adheres better to a slightly rusty surface than it does to clean metal...but it doesn't adhere well at all to existing paint. If you apply it with a brush, the brush strokes smooth out on their own and you have a near flawless finish. But take their warning about skin contact seriously! If you get any on you, you have about a minute to get it of. After that normal solvents (including laquer thinner, enamal reducer, or even gasoline) won't take it off - only time will.

My experience with it is that when applied properly, POR-15 is even more durable than powercoating. One quart goes a long way and it the leftover material will last for years if you keep it in the 'fridge.

[tomking]

If you are going to replace the ball joints and tie rod ends, then what one can do is to loosen the nut on the ball joint and run it up to the top of the threads. After heating on the spindle a bit whack down on the ball joint nut and usually the ball joint pops loose. Even if one isnt going to replace the ball joints you can usually get them loose this way too without damaging them beyond use.

[MICAH1]

Jay,
Get the $15 tool, or if you can not wait but equal/beat the price then try a rental at Autozone. Have patience you're getting there....

[yellaopelgt]

Originally Posted by Gordy Found a site that has Red Koni shocks, set of 4, for $499 with free shipping for the GT. Anyone know of a site with a better deal? Don't expect you'd see them for too much less.

Thats about right.....I got mine about 2-3 years ago and they were ordered in from Holland. Took about 2 months to get them to my front door. They ARE expensive.....but the ride quality is like night and day!!! Others may disagree and say that KYB's or others are just as good.... I dont think so......
If I remember correctly......I paid $400.00 but again it was a few years ago. Inflation.
HTH
Joe

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Jeepsbeme Although I have a pickle fork (tie rod end separator) in my collection, I rarely use it. I usually have better luck with the "two hammer approach". The best part is it doesn't damage the tie rod end (or the spindle) in the process! Simply take two hammers, and hit the spindle (NOT the tie rod!) with them both simultaneously right where the tie rod passes through (at a right angle to the tie rod stem). Cast iron has a surprising amount of deflection, and these simulataneous impacts distort the spindle opening just enough to break the corrosion bond and the tie rod end usually drops right out with only a few coordinated hits.

I used to use this method, but have found out through careful inspection that it definitely does distort the spindles and steering arms permanently (at least on Opels, as the spindles and steering arms are all forged steel rather than cast iron).

Yes, in a pinch I still do it, but a follow-up with a 7° tapered reamer is required in order for the new tie rods/ball joints to properly seat. You can see it the moment you start cleaning up the tapered hole...shiny high spots and dull low spots inside the taper.

FWIW,
Bob

[markandson]

I have also used a standard gear puller to do tie rod end removal. You just have to have the correct puller so that it will grab correctly and not slip off. A few twists of the screw and one loud bang and it falls apart.

[Redskinsjbs]

Thanks guys. I think that I will get the cheap tool.

Essentially of the rubber in my car is old, and that includes the seals for the tie rod ends and the ball joints, so I am just going to replace all of them to be safe.

[Phoenix]

Just picked up the tie rod/ ball joint remover (pickel fork) from Autozone for 10.99. They have separate tools for tie rod and ball joint but they are both pickel forks and I don't see why you couldn't use one for the other and vise versa. I just got the larger of the 2 for more leaverage and was able to use it on both. We work on so many Opels here between mine and my uncles that I thought it was a good investment especially after damaging the threads on the outer tie rod for my Manta using the hammer method.

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by Gordy Has anyone used that POR 15 product at all? I know it is supposed to be good for floor pans etc that have some rust issues, but understand it is super durable as well.

POR15 works well, but in my experience Magnet Paint's Chassis Saver is superior, especially for suspension parts. It's the only thing I've seen (including POR15) that can hold up to PA winters. POR15 is a bit brittle and if it ever cracks (if the part flexes) it flakes off. Plus it's really UV sensitive and will get kind of chalky if left in the sun. Either one is likely to be more durable than powdercoating for suspension parts. Also do yourself a favor and coat your jack points with it if they're still in good shape. A quart of either one of these products will go a LONG way!

Todd K.

[namba209]

I did Willit? entirely with POR-15, both the gloss Black and Silver. Todd is correct, if left unprotected to UV rays it will discolor. The link below is a pic of the rear drive train done in gloss Black with a 1/2" brush. When it dried you could not find a brush mark anywhere, and it took less than a pint to do the entire assembly. But you have to follow their instructions perfectly and if you happen to get it on your skin and it dries, you cannot get it off.

GT ZF Posi-trac - Opel Photo Gallery

[markandson]

This thread seems to have strayed from its original subject so I will add to the mayhem. The pictures attached are of my Karmann Ghia chassis before and after with POR 15 the coating of choice.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by Gordy Found a site that has Red Koni shocks, set of 4, for $499 with free shipping for the GT. Anyone know of a site with a better deal? Don't expect you'd see them for too much less.

You might check with this outfit. They have the best prices on some stuff I've checked on and have free shipping on orders over $100
I don't see Opel GT listed but they may be able to get them.
http://proamtdw.com/default.htm

[MICAH1]

Guys, we have moved off Jay's question for help........ I have worked with him trying to get his GT ready for the road and possibly Carlisle in May. This is one seventeen year old who wants to get it done as soon as possible.

[RallyBob]

Back on topic....

I ended up buying one of these inexpensive tools for removing tie rod ends from the steering arms.

And for ball joints I have one of these.

If you tear apart a lot of suspensions as I invariably do, then these are great tools to have. The tie rod tool was about $15 from Jegs, the ball joint tool was about $28 at NAPA.

[Redskinsjbs]

OK, Thanks guys.

I got the ball joint remover tool and now I have some questions.

There isn't a trick to using the tool right? Just place it on the stud and screw it down?
Are there any saftey precautions that I should take? Should 911 be dialed into my phone awaiting the send button?

Thanks

[MICAH1]

Jay,
You are too funny, You already have a clear area to work (leaf spring, and wheel removed). Just put the mother on the joint and turn it out of there!!!

[Redskinsjbs]

Ok, I got the driver's side off. Now how do I remove the lower ball joint from the control arm?

Upper Ball Joint Removal on Vimeo

[Redskinsjbs]

Ok, so now that the control arms are off, I am replacing the old bushings with polyurethane ones from GTSource. Now I can't figure out how to remove the old bushings in the lower control arm.(The ones attached to the bracket in the photos.)

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs Ok, so now that the control arms are off, I am replacing the old bushings with polyurethane ones from GTSource. Now I can't figure out how to remove the old bushings in the lower control arm.(The ones attached to the bracket in the photos.)

First, read THOROUGHLY the following two threads (they are "Stuck" to the top of this Forum):
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/3a-fron...id-shimmy.html
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/3a-fron...l-chapter.html
And I mean EVERY post, and every word. Then you just have to decide which method ("cutting, drilling, swearing and sawing" or ("burning, swearing and prying") you want to try.
HTH and good luck

[Gordy]

In that first picture 2 posts back ...you weren't thinking of just jumping off, were you????? It'can't be that bad!