Front end rebuild... the beginning to the final chapter

[Thom71GT]

Rick (benncojr) and I will be lowering the front of my GT today. I'll be doing a photo documentary of how we do it and will let you all know how easy/hard/fun/frustrating it is. Wish us luck.

[Thom71GT]

Hi There. We have followowed allmost all of the steps and we are having a problem with the last set of bolts to get out. See Thumbnail.

We took the nuts off, but it says you need to remove the bolts. Any tips or tricks on how to do that?

[nobody]

Take the bolt out of the lower control arm and let the spring pressure work for you. Have you got the spring eye bolts out yet?

[Thom71GT]

Originally Posted by nobody Take the bolt out of the lower control arm and let the spring pressure work for you. Have you got the spring eye bolts out yet?

Yes, I have ALL of the bolts out except for the two on each side that run vertical. It aint budging.

[nobody]

Ok seperate the lower control arm from the spindle assembly and put the spring eye bolt back in that side. Then Jack up the center of the car to allow the spring tension to be on the perch area. From there do the three Ps Penatrating oil, Pounding and Prayer. Be safe and remember potential energy is the worst.

[Thom71GT]

Originally Posted by nobody Ok seperate the lower control arm from the spindle assembly and put the spring eye bolt back in that side. Then Jack up the center of the car to allow the spring tension to be on the perch area. From there do the three Ps Penatrating oil, Pounding and Prayer. Be safe and remember potential energy is the worst.

I did the three Ps on the drivers side and got them out. Still being evil on the pass side. Ive S O A K E D the heck out of it with wd-40 and penetrating oil. I actully got the bushings out of that side on the lower A arms and have the drivers side of the spring jacked up to put some pressure DOWN on the Passengers side. With luck and time, that little bit of rust in those bolts will break loose.

[nobody]

If you have the drivers side loose then it puts an odd load on the passnger side bolts. They need to come out at one time. Try putting some pressure back on the drivers side.

[Thom71GT]

After getting the drivers side out we then jacked the spring up on BOTH sides to relieve pressure on the the problem area. We've saturated those bolts with liquid wrench and then hammered in a pickle fork to try and pry it.

See Pic.

I don't know what else to try. The drivers side came out with a good soaking but the pass side has been soaking more. I guess its just more rusted. I am assumming that once I get this puppy out, that Ill be good to go and the spring should juts slide right out??? Please say yes.

[namba209]

Thom, Rick, maybe you could put the nuts back on the bolts, just to cover the threads and smack the nuts up, with a hammer and punch. Sometimes it helps to vibe the rusted pieces to help break things loose. Maybe, just be sure not to ding up the threads on the bolts. Just a suggestion.

[Thom71GT]

Originally Posted by namba209 Thom, Rick, maybe you could put the nuts back on the bolts, just to cover the threads and smack the nuts up, with a hammer and punch. Sometimes it helps to vibe the rusted pieces to help break things loose. Maybe, just be sure not to ding up the threads on the bolts. Just a suggestion.

Eughh!! good suggestion. Even though we banged the hell out of them with a 3 pound sledge. Ill soak em and smash em.

[kwilford]

First, only post GT Model questions (not technical stuff) in the GT Forum.

Next, post stuff like this in the "3A - Front Suspension" Forum.

Last, this is exactly the biggest problem I had with my front suspension re-build. Those darn bolts were corroded in tight! They seem to get corroded into the spring perch holes and the cross member holes. And since they are so corroded into the perch, they resist being driven up and through both the perch and the cross member. I used a torch to burn the head of the bolt off above the cross member, or a chisel might work (although they are hardened bolts, so good luck!). Then the perches will just drop off, and you can drive the remaining bolt out of the perch. This was one of the reasons I removed my suspension clip as an assembly to re-build it, as it is MUCH easier (and I believe safer, which is a bit contentious) to get at the various seized bolts when you can turn the clip over on a bench to work on it.

You will have to replace the bolts of course (I used Grade 12.9 socket head cap screws. And the OEM nuts are supposed to be replaced each time they are removed, as they are special jam nuts. But if you get new bolts, ask at the fastener shop if they have GR. 10.9 or 12.9 locking nuts as well. If not, Gil sells the OEM locking nuts (which I believe are GR 10.9).

HTH

[benncojr]

Thom,
I was talking (typing) with Baz and he suggested that you heat up the bolts with the propan (make them real hot) then hit them with water to cool them off fast. The fast cooling will make the rust between the bolt and the hole break down and loosen up.

You will have to clean off the oil before firing up the propan but that might work.

[GTJIM]

...and people did not believe me when I said I used NITRIC ACID to remove the rust on my last.....
"Bolt from HELL!"

[nobody]

I had the same joys on the same side putting my lowered spring in. One other thing to try is actually turning the bolt from the top to help break it loose. I do remember using an extra wrench for leverage and most of my vocabulary to tell those bolts my opinion of them.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by benncojr Jim, when you told me that I thought you were kidding. But, I did suggest it at one point in time. How did you do it?? (Boy, am I sore today...that 3 pound sledge gives you a workout).

Fortunately my front suspension was out of the car - but it still took three days to get it apart!
I heated the stubborn bolt and dripped the 60% Nitric Acid on to the rust filled gap around it in the end. I still had to drill the bolt half way down into the hole and use a stepped drift, made from a turned down high tensile allen head cap screw, to POUNDthe unprintable illegitimate wee darling of a bolt out!
A 3lb sledge - being a bit delicate aren't we??

[Thom71GT]

Ive pretty much used up all my vocabulary and I think I even made up some new ones. I think that first and foremost this morning, Ill heat them up and cool them off real fast. Then blast it with some more oil and try to turn them from the top and rig up some kind of breaker bar on the end of the wrench to get more torque out of it. As the day goes, Ill post my successes an/or failures. Wish me luck and thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

P.S. Where the heck did you get acid at?

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Thom71GT P.S. Where the heck did you get acid at?

I work in a Marine Engineering facility and we use the stong Nitric Acid to "passivate" the stainless steel - ie: remove all iron impurities from its surface to retard rusting in salt water. You may be able to get some from a well equiped pharmacy or local school science lab ..... I will leave the "story" you tell to get it up to you!

Just remember that it is highly corrosive and even the vapours will tear the lining off your lungs! Gloves, Glasses AND breathing apparatus are MANDATORY!!

I guess you could try Battery Acid (Sulphuric Acid) - just use a hydrometer - battery tester - to transport a few drops to your front suspension. Flush with copious quantities of water to dilute the acid and wash it away after it has done its job ...... !

[jeff denton]

Those bolts caused me severe grief when we first took Speedway GT apart, too. I resorted to cutting the heads off like Keith suggests, only I used a die grinder, as torch happy as I tend to be I would rather not be torching in that area. Once the A-arm was removed I was able to push one bolt out in the press but had to drill out three others. For re-assembly I used WAY longer 3/8 grade 8 bolts (with anti-seize of course). The longer bolts really aid in getting it all lined up when working against the spring pressure, we have to go in there now and then to play with spring rates and are now practiced enough to be able to change the spring in about an hour.

[baz]

Originally Posted by GTJIM I guess you could try Battery Acid (Sulphuric Acid) - just use a hydrometer - battery tester - to transport a few drops to your front suspension. Flush with copious quantities of water to dilute the acid and wash it away after it has done its job ...... !

#

jim battery acid is to dilute to be any use but some car electrical workshops have neat acid and you may get some there

plus thom now has a new idea

[oldopelguy]

Originally Posted by GTJIM I guess you could try Battery Acid (Sulphuric Acid) - just use a hydrometer - battery tester - to transport a few drops to your front suspension.

If you're thinking acid, and you've decided this won't happen 'til next weekend at this point, I'd recommend starting out with Coca-Cola first myself. It's a lot less expensive, easier to get, and the phospheric acid in it will dissolve a 16 penny nail or a t-bone steak in less than a month. Won't be quite as quick, but if you've got a little time that might not be a bad thing.

Now a little soap box speach, since I'm typing and it's to the point. If you plan on keeping the GT for a while, like Thom does, I very highly recommend while you've got the parts apart you spend an hour with some POR-15 or similar product to preserve the parts now rather than later. Also, when the bolts go back in, use copious ammounts of anti-sieze for the bolts and Teflon-based grease for any moving/slideing parts (easiest to get at marine shops as it is used a lot for outdrives).
Lastly, if you've done all this, the anti-sieze, the fighting, the cursing, and such, and you don't want to ever do it again, there is one more thing I would recommend you do at least once a year: turn the bolts. What I mean is jack up the side, remove the wheel, then loosen the nuts on those two bolts, one at a time, and rotate the bolt itself 1/2 turn or so with a wrench, then tighten the nut back up and move to the next one. While you're on each side, turn the big top one going through the upper control arm bushings too. You won't affect the alignment settings, it won't take a long time, but it insures that the bolts won't be rusted in place. Anyone who's done this work will tell you how much easier that will make things the next time.

And now, back to Thom's bolts, the candle trick would be my next move, if you're hoping to finish up this weekend, followed by some Coke if it's going to need to set for the week. Good luck!

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy And now, back to Thom's bolts, the candle trick would be my next move, if you're hoping to finish up this weekend..

Good idea Stephen, that was going to to be my next suggestion. I have had amazing results with removing bolts that are hopelessly seized by heating them nearly red hot and then melting a candle into the seized area. I believe that the aromatic and paraffinic hydrocarbons in the candle get drawn up into the corrosion, almost like brass does in a brazing operation, and provide an internal lubricant to the rust. I have not run into a single bolt that has not released with the candle wax method since. Even the EGR fitting on the down pipe on my '75 SportWagon, which was corroded so badly even the remaining threads are half missing, released. I only discovered that trick AFTER I had re-built my front suspension. It sure would have made it easier that the cutting torch method.

And do this from both ends of the bolt.

After that, use Dave's method to try to release the bolts by turning them.

HTH and good luck

[Thom71GT]

I cut the bottom of the back pass side bolt off and am tediously drilling it out. What fun. Been doing it about an hour or so now and Im a little over half way through.

Im not quite understanding the candle wax thing. What good does pouring wax over the top do? The wax is too thick to get down in the hole??

Also, how does one cut the head of that bolt off with the sides of that A arm in the way? I have the bushings out and still cant get my cutter or dremel in there.

[jordan]

Through capillarie action the melted wax is drawn down into the bolt/control arm interface, the superheated melted wax can become less viscous than water and it is also being forcefully drawn down due to the heat. It is amazing how well this trick works.

[GTJIM]

Tom,
Just heat the bolt with a torch and get some small birthday cake candles.
Touch the end of one of the candles to the very hot bolt so a small amount of the wax will melt and "wick" in to the area between the bolt and the a-arm bracket.

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by Thom71GT I'm not quite understanding the candle wax thing. What good does pouring wax over the top do? The wax is too thick to get down in the hole?? Also, how does one cut the head of that bolt off with the sides of that A arm in the way? I have the bushings out and still cant get my cutter or dremel in there.

The trick is to heat the bolt up nearly red hot. That super-heats the wax, and you get a bit of smoke as the wax melts, and some wax fumes that suck up into the corroded area. I think the rapidly melting wax also tends to "quench" the bolt a bit, and "shocks" the corroded area a bit. But if you are already drilling it out from below, it might be to late to try to conventionally remove the bolt. Can you still get a wrench on its head?

To get at the front perch bolt to cut off the head, I had to remove my steering rack (well, I already had it off to rebuild the clip). But the back bolt head is just a pain to get at, but you "should" be able to get a dremel at it. A cutting torch was my tool of choice, but you do have to be a bit careful.