Procedural question for front suspension disassembly

[Dmcbrass]

I started to change the lower ball joint on the drivers side of my 70 GT on Monday. As I began to dissasemble, the front end it became clear to me that It would be best to remove the lower control arm so that I could use a press to remove and install the ball joint. I had planned to replace control arm bushings and spring eye bushings this Winter so I decided to tackle the job now since I was already into it. Here's my question. I have the control arms off the driver side. It seems to me that it would be easier and safer to strip the control arms off the passenger side now with the spring tension relieved, reinstall the control arms with the spring on the passenger side and then reattach everthing back on the driver side. This way I only have to fight the spring tension one time. OGTS is recommending that I complete the driver side first and then move to the passenger side. Something about only fighting one side at a time. What do you guys think?

[GT Tim]

I agree with OGTS.I have just completed that and it was easier that way.

[Dmcbrass]

What was easier about it? What problems would I have if I did it the way I suggested?

[namba209]

Well, it's kinda up to you, but it's like changing brakes. You do one side at a time, that way you'll have a physical pic or example of what goes where coming apart and going back together. One thing I would suggest, when you take the lower spring perch out from the bottom of the LCA, remember which holes the bolts went in and put the perch back in the same way it came out. Using the wrong set of holes will lower or raise the front of the car on that side.

[Thom71GT]

I just did a complete rebuild of my front end. However, I got the full sport spring. If you're not getting a full or intermediate spring, I feel sorry for you. I would have NO desire trying to put that front end back together.

btw, it was cake with the full lowering spring. Very easy to put back together.

[jeff denton]

The front spring experience I have now, since making a GT do what mine does, means I had to come up with my own way of doing it, as I have six leafs in my setup. I found the best way is to have the car on the trailer, chained down, use a hydraulic jack to push against the spring so you can work the lower A- arm out. Mine has to be done this way because the car isn't heavy enough to just push against the spring from the ground, it just lifts the car and you get nowhere... Once I figured this out it was a piece of cake. My spring now goes in and out in about an hour and a half. I have now done it about a dozen times in the last six months and haven't even been killed once yet.

[Thom71GT]

Originally Posted by jeff denton I have now done it about a dozen times in the last six months and haven't even been killed once yet.

HA HA HA That cracked me up. I needed that. Thanks !!!

[Dmcbrass]

What makes the sport spring easier to install? does anyone have experience with what OGTS calls the intermediate? How much does it change the frontend alignment specs? What effect does it have on handling? Do you need to lower the rear also?

[Thom71GT]

Its easier because you dont have all that pressure. I let mine hang loose and got all the bolts in and then just tightened it up. No need for a spring compressor or a jack to install it. If you get the full sport spring, you need to lower the rear or it will look stupid. If you get the intermediate one, then you don't need to lower the rear.

Improved looks, performance and handling. The full spring creates a 3 degree negative camber on the front suspension, easily fixed by rotating the upper ball joints 180 degrees and then retightening.

Lowering the rear is super easy. Took me 12 minutes to replace the springs.

[bq97]

Originally Posted by Dmcbrass I started to change the lower ball joint on the drivers side of my 70 GT on Monday. As I began to dissasemble, the front end it became clear to me that It would be best to remove the lower control arm so that I could use a press to remove and install the ball joint. I had planned to replace control arm bushings and spring eye bushings this Winter so I decided to tackle the job now since I was already into it. Here's my question. I have the control arms off the driver side. It seems to me that it would be easier and safer to strip the control arms off the passenger side now with the spring tension relieved, reinstall the control arms with the spring on the passenger side and then reattach everthing back on the driver side. This way I only have to fight the spring tension one time. OGTS is recommending that I complete the driver side first and then move to the passenger side. Something about only fighting one side at a time. What do you guys think?

Replace everything on the drivers side then reinstall the control arms on the drives side using the passanger side as a reference. Hook everything back up on the drivers side EXCEPT the spring eye to the lower control arm. Un bolt the spring eye from the passanger side. Rebolt the spring eye to the drivers side lower control arm. Now strip everything off the passanger side and replace parts as necissary. Reinstall the passanger side using the driver's side as you reference. Once completed reattach the spring eye to the lower control arm on the passanger's side. Only fought with the spring once. Finial step get an alignment.

hth
Brian

[Dmcbrass]

Thanks bq97,
That sounds like the trick. I like the idea of only facing spring tension once.

[Al Olmo]

Just a different way to look at this ball joint job. This is what I decided to do: I took down the entire front end, it might seem a little drastic but if you think about it, is only four bolts at each side plus the radiator support bolt and the entire thing comes down, disconnect the brake lines and you are ready to go. I found it was much easier to rebuild the entire front end on the bench, I put it on the press to decompress the spring and from there it was very easy and safe to change all rubber components, ball joints, work on the rack and pinion, etc. After reassembly, I raised it up with the floor jack as a unit and the job is done. Thanks to Ron’s suggestion I made certain that I used the same holes at the perch so every thing would look the same.

[Dmcbrass]

I thought about rebuilding the suspension out of the car, but I don't have a press in my shop and decided that it would be additional work and time to build a spring compressor. There's no doubt that rebuilding it out of the car would be superior if it wasn't for having to deal with that infamous spring.

[Thom71GT]

Actually rebuilding the front of the car isnt that bad. whether you do it with the front attached or not. I chose NOT to take the front end out. Less stuff to take off and put back on. The ONLY thing that made it bad was'nt the spring, it was the bolts that got rusted that had to be FORCEFULLY removed.

I used LOTS of anti seize when I put it back together.

[Al Olmo]

I worked on another GT’s front end before by compressing the spring with a 4x4 attached to the cross member with a bracket and it worked ok, but it was a little to scary and for some reason a was not able to remove the perch on either side, so this time I decide to make it a lot easier on myself and I tell you it was, but you’re Wright you have to have access to a press.

[bq97]

If you don't have a way to compress the spring while the front suspension is off the car unbolt one side of the spring before removing the suspension as a unit. Then rebuild everything but don't connect the spring back up until after the unit is reinstalled in the car. That way you can use a floor jack and the weight of the car when reattaching the spring. I removed the front suspension on a parts car as a unit but dropped one side of the spring while the suspension was still on the car. After I had the front member removed I unbolted the other side of the spring and slid it out. No issues at all.

hth
Brian

[davidkontra]

I've been giving this alot of thought recently, and I was wondering why do you have to put the spring in at all? Heavy shocks should force the front end up or coil overs should so why bother?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by davidkontra Heavy shocks should force the front end up or coil overs should so why bother?

Shocks alone won't carry the weight of the car. Shocks were designed to dampen the spring's natural frequencies, nothing else. Coil-overs could be done, but not without modifications, the lower and upper shock mounts need reinforcement to deal with coil-over shocks, and the inner fenders should be reinforced to prevent metal failure. Also, the upper a-arms will have to be reworked to clear small-body coil overs (1.875"), but you'd need to make new upper a-arms to fit normal 2.5" coilovers, there just isn't enough room there to fit them!

Bob

[namba209]

To add a bit to what Bob said, earlier shocks had no gas charge on them. They are just a piston with holes in them that floated up and down inside the housings in an oil reservoir. The size of the holes in the piston is what determined the dampening rate by allowing the oil to flow through the holes as the piston was forced up or down in the housing. The reason for the new gas charged shocks, is to keep the oil from being aerated or mixed with air, which lowers the viscosity of the oil and makes the shocks dampening action a lot faster and less effective. Like Bob said the shocks only slow down the spring action to keep the tires from yo-yo-ing. You've probably seen cars on the road where the tires are actually bouncing off the road because of badly worn shocks, where the dampening action is completely gone.

[davidkontra]

I just pick up my suspension from my metal fab guy and we discussed this very thing. He asked me if I would out in a mustang II suspension. There is a company called fatman fab that makes II suspensions and he used on for a healy. We also talked about airbags and coilovers and he thinks he can do it with the A-arm. I have a call into fatboy to see what can be done. no details yet though

[Dmcbrass]

Driver side came apart easily. Unfortunately the passenger side control arm bolts were rusted solid to the pivot casting and one of them broke off while attempting to remove the nut with an impact wrench. Since I already had the spring disconnected from the driver side I decided to remove the remainder of the front suspension from the GT and deal with the control arm bolts on the floor. I was able to drive the broken bolt out of the casting with a drift punch. The other one wouldn't budge. I finally cut it off flush with the casting, and drilled it out. Actually I only had to drill it 3/4 of the way. I was finally able to drive the remainder out with the punch. Now I need two bolts. OGTS says that original equipment bolts are not available and they haven't been able to find a source. I expected them to be hardened bolts (metric equivalent of grade 8); however, the bolt drilled easily. (more like a grade 3 or 5). I believe that they measure 10mm. There doesn't appear to be anything special about them, does anyone have a source?

[Paul]

I went down to the local industrial hardware supply house and bought 2 Metric socket head cap screws that were 80mm long and new self locking nuts. The cost? Nothing, Nada, Zip. I gave them a buck for there trouble... had to make them take it...

[namba209]

I would presume you're going to go with the poly bushings. Anyway here's a tip or two if you go that way. Liberally coat everything with The grease that comes with the bushings. If you don't have any, do a search on the web for NEO grease, specifically the grease for boat trailers they have. It's the same stuff that you would get from OGTS when you get their poly bushings. Also, at least once a year, loosen the bolts on the control; arms and give them a half a turn, then torque them down again. That way, hopefully, you won't have the "Bolts From Hell" malady again. HTH.

[kwilford]

Moderators Note: I split off the posts regarding the Manta suspension swap to its own thread in the Performance Suspension Upgrades Forum