Play in upper control arm bolt guide sleeve

[Lasse H]

I was replacing old bushings with new ones when I discovered that upper control arm bushings in car were not made of rubber but some kind of white hard plastic. These bushings seemed to be in good condition and so tight that metal sleeves didn't have chance to turn (like they should?).

However, the reason I started to change these bushings in first place was that there was some (actually quite a lot) play in upper control arm. I took a new upper control arm bolt and tried it to the guide sleeve in shock absorber support of crossmember: there was pretty much clearance. Should there be any? Has this guide sleeve worn unusually alot because bushing metal sleeves were stuck? There is metal rotating against metal but no lubrication... Has anyone ran into same problem? Feels like replacing these crossmember upper control arm bolt guide sleeves would be a bit too hard to do at home. What should be the inner diameter of this guide sleeve in crossmember?

[Mike Preble]

It sounds as though you have polyurethane bushings in your upper control arms. Though they usually come in red I don't see why they couldn't come in other colors. They could be made from other materials, though. I know bushings could be made from another material called "duran". I think that is the name. Someone else might be able to correct me on that name. But that is not the issue here. The issue is the space between the bolt that goes through the metal insert and the bushing. This bolt then attaches the A-arm to the crossmember. If this bolt has been loose it could have worn the metal insert down giving excessive clearance between it and the bolt. Or it could have always been the wrong size bolt.

Either way, what do we do? One, replace the bushing with a new one as it will have a new metal insert. Or two, replace the bolt with a larger bolt making sure the one you use is of proper hardness, preferably a grade 8. Either way there should be very little "play" or clearance between the two parts. Replacing the metal insert only is near impossible.

Then get a good, quality front end alignment and enjoy the ride. If there is something I missed I am sure that as people wake up over here on this side of the pond they will also help out.

Good luck. Mike

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Lasse H I was replacing old bushings with new ones when I discovered that upper control arm bushings in car were not made of rubber but some kind of white hard plastic. These bushings seemed to be in good condition and so tight that metal sleeves didn't have chance to turn (like they should?).

Those are Delrin upper bushings, they were sold by Parsget in Germany back in the '80's.

However, the reason I started to change these bushings in first place was that there was some (actually quite a lot) play in upper control arm. I took a new upper control arm bolt and tried it to the guide sleeve in shock absorber support of crossmember: there was pretty much clearance. Should there be any? Has this guide sleeve worn unusually alot because bushing metal sleeves were stuck? There is metal rotating against metal but no lubrication... Has anyone ran into same problem? Feels like replacing these crossmember upper control arm bolt guide sleeves would be a bit too hard to do at home. What should be the inner diameter of this guide sleeve in crossmember?

This is very common on GT's. The upper bolt pivot sleeve elongates (becomes oval inside), and then the camber moves on the car as it is driven on the road. The only real solution is to remove the sleeve/tube, and weld in a new one. I have done this many times on GT and Kadett crossmembers. It was actually not uncommon for this to happen after just 10 years from new.

But yes, the bushings should pivot around the bushing sleeves smoothly, the upper bolt should not spin within the crossmember tube.

[Lasse H]

Thanks for information! Looks like those bolt pivot sleeves really have to be replaced. Guess I now have to find someone to change those sleeves as I doubt I'm not able to do it myself.
I'm sure car will be much better to drive after this front suspension overhaul. Picture of old leaf spring bushings attached.

[namba209]

Lasse, whatever you decide to do, make sure you do this!!! When you install the pivot bolt, coat it liberally with a good grade grease or anti-sieze compound, especially the shank where it goes through to tubes. Then at least once a year, loosen the nut and turn the bolt about 1/2 turn, then torque everything down again. This will help prevent you from getting the infamous "Bolt From Hell". Been There, Done That, and it's not fun.

[Itsa '70 GT]

I found this thread to post a situation I find myself in that is not desirable. I recently purchased a used crossmember for fit up purposes, that has had the driver's side upper A Arm bolt hacked on either side of the support tube, bushing, etc. Anyway I've tried the heat it up, shoot penetrating oil into it and knock it out method to no avail...How has anyone here dealt with this A Arm bolt removal in the past; I've seen the "Bolt From Hell" remark in a prior post and am wondering what to do next. I'm considering drilling into the thing in order to try and use an easyout out or something of that nature in order to extract the thing. Any help will be appreciated!

Bill

P.S: The other side support/tube is free and clear!

[Bill Hoffmann]

Originally Posted by Itsa '70 GT I recently purchased a used crossmember for fit up purposes, that has had the driver's side upper A Arm bolt hacked on either side of the support tube, bushing, etc.

I also had this problem on one side of my GT. I cut through the sleeves and bolt to remove the A-arm, and used a shop press to get the remainder of the frozen bolt out. For a press plate, I drilled a hole the size of the bolt, so that the force would be against the sleeve, not the crossmember. Still, it fought all the way, so much so that I had to use grade 8 bolts to press it all the way through. Softer bolts were bending like taffy.

This is one reason I would like to see OGTS offer new sleeves for the poly upper control arm bushings, both for the GT and Manta. The other reason is that some of the sleeves I've seen are not actual tubes, but just steel rolled into a tubular shape. I don't like the idea of the poly bushings rotating over that seam.

[namba209]

Bill, welcome to the "Bolt From Hell" Club. What you've got is a bolt shank that has rust welded itself to the sleeve. Alot of us have gone through this and it is not fun. Some have used the melted candle wicking up into the sleeve with some success. Others have done heat and impacting the bolt, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Whatever you try, do not use an easy out!!! The reason is simple, they are very hard tool steel and brittle. Once they break, and it will if used for this bolt, they are a real PIA to get out. I gave my whole crossmember to a local front end shop and three days later they told to come get it. They used heat, impacts, hydraulic press and penetrating fluids. What finally did the trick I don't know. But they did tell me not to bring in another one. If you can get the member in a really locked down position on a drill press and precisely positioned, and you can drill the bolt squarely, I would start with the smallest drill bit that will go through the bolt, then go to the next larger size, attempting to remove the bolt in between drill sizes. It may be that the drilling will relieve the bolt from the inside of the sleeve sufficiently to drive it out. The main problem will be having it perfectly square while drilling because any off center drilling could damage the sleeve and really screw up the alignment. HTH.

[Itsa '70 GT]

Latest from the garage...I just drilled a hole into the bolt big enough to fit the tip of an impact hammer pointy bit into. I heated up both ends of the bolt as well as the backside of the crossmember tube housing, and shot it with penetrating oil. I then hit it with my impact hammer to no immediate avail; hopefully I "woke up" the rusted joint. Anyone try this approach and how long did you have to wait for your bolt to "free up" after you candled it, etc.???

Thanks!

Bill

[namba209]

Well, Bill, like I said in my earlier post, it took 3 days and the alignnment shop, but I'm sure they did not work on it all day each day. Perseverence is the key word here, I hate to say.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Bill Hoffmann This is one reason I would like to see OGTS offer new sleeves for the poly upper control arm bushings, both for the GT and Manta.

For a GT a-arm bushings, OGTS #3059 is for the inner sleeves, and they are seamless steel. Never seen them for the Manta however.

[jordan]

Will the original metal sleeves from the rubber bushings fit into the poly bushings?

[namba209]

I do believe they do Jordan, it's been a couple of years since I did mine and don't have the instructions anymore. But I do remember that the serrated cupped washers for the inboard upper control arm bushings had to be turned around so they wouldn't lock the bushings and keep them from rotating. HTH.

[Bill Hoffmann]

The sleeves from the rubber bushings are supposed to be re-used for the poly bushings. The poly bushings are designed to work differently from the rubber bushings, however. The rubber bushings deflect (twist) to allow the arm to move up and down. The poly bushings are too hard to do this, and they are not attached to the sleeves like the rubber ones. They are supposed to rotate around the sleeves, which should always remain fixed by the clamping force of the UCA bolt. Otherwise you have a metal-to-metal bearing situation which neither the bolt or sleeve is designed for.