Twitchy Steering

[matl59]

I've had somewhat twitchy steering for a while now but lately it seams to be getting a bit worse. The car feels stable while traveling in a strait line but the slightest turn requires a good grip of the wheel otherwise it will just about be ripped out of my hands and the car will dart off in the direction of the turn. All steering components appear to have a good connection with ajoining components. No slop or play that I can feel anywhere. If I jack the front end and unlock the column. I can very easiliy move the wheel for about and 1/8 to a 1/4 lock. Steering seams to be loose. once past that initial 1/4 lock it feels as it should.

Does this sound like wear in the rack? Maybe the connection between column and rack?

Any ideas?

[traytodd]

Any abnormal tire wear? If you get the front end aligned, they should inspect all the ball joints and stearing linkages. Is one of the "A" arms bent? Are the upper and lower "A" bushings in good condition? I replaced all of my suspension rubber with Gil's polyurethane bushings and it made a big difference.

Terry

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by matl59 I've had somewhat twitchy steering for a while now but lately it seams to be getting a bit worse. The car feels stable while traveling in a strait line but the slightest turn requires a good grip of the wheel otherwise it will just about be ripped out of my hands and the car will dart off in the direction of the turn. All steering components appear to have a good connection with ajoining components. No slop or play that I can feel anywhere. If I jack the front end and unlock the column. I can very easiliy move the wheel for about and 1/8 to a 1/4 lock. Steering seams to be loose. once past that initial 1/4 lock it feels as it should. Does this sound like wear in the rack? Maybe the connection between column and rack? Any ideas?

Assuming it's a GT....

Either the lower u-joint in the column is worn, or the rack is worn. If the rack is worn, then it's an easy fix (5 minutes) to adjust it. The u-joint is another story altogether.

Bob

[hrcollinsjr]

Unless a lot of the components are fairly new then it may be a combination of several things. There is a rack adjustment but I don't believe that is your problem. If there is no slop in your steering components then it may be bushing problems as already suggested. How are the wheel bearings? Are they too loose? That can cause some problems.

Harold

[matl59]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. It is a GT. The suspension in front is still original so it very well could be a couple of things combined. I do have plans to convert to poly bushings and new ball joints, exc. Have the parts, just not the time lately. End links on the rack were new about 3 years ago and are in good shape, wheel bearings were also new 3 years ago and appear to be fine. Tire wear is even. The steering issue is apparent with the car lifted off its suspension as well as when going down the road so I've kind of ruled out (in my mind) any major issue there. Although I was never completely happy with it after getting the front end aligned a while back. Car went down the road straiter before the toe adjustment...

I'll take a closer look at the u-joint in the column. Last I looked about a year ago when I had the column out it appeared to be in good shape.
I thought about adjusting the rack. I've never done it before and I kind of hope it's that kind of easy fix...

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by matl59 Although I was never completely happy with it after getting the front end aligned a while back. Car went down the road straiter before the toe adjustment...

Hmmm? Not all alignment shops are created equal! Are the rack boots in good shape? If new, did you try to clean out the old grease and accumulated crud before the installation? I had a GT that I just knew the rack & pinion was going to have to be replaced on, difficult to turn and just gritty feeling. I cleaned it the best I could and repacked it with wheel bearing grease and fitted new boots on it. Amazing difference!

Harold

[GTJIM]

Check both the flexible joint inside on the steering column and the UJ at the rack on the lower end of the column. Make sure both have no movement and that the pinch bolts which clamp them to the column are there and done up - one is an Allen head cap screw ( or was on mine - may have originally been tri-square ... ?).

Next, check that both the inner tie rods are tight where they screw into the rack (inside the rubber boots) and that the clamps which hold the outer tie rod ball joints are there and tight. Also check that the nuts which hold the ball joints into the steering arms are tight and have a split pin or nylock nut to prevent them backing off (I always use loctite on the ones with nylock nuts as they stop locking if re-used - they are a non-standard - fine - metric thread so are often re-used).

Now check the two bolts that hold the steering arms on to the spindle - the rest is ball joints and suspension bushes - except ... check the suspension to chassis bolts too!

The rack adjustment is simple and straight-forward - have a look at the illustration in a FSM.

Have a look at the rack mountings - OGTS has replacement poly plastic items for the old rubbers there too. Check the mounting clamps are tight for now.

It is amazing what P.O.'s and unfamiliar wheel alignment shops miss ... or fail to tighten up!

[jeff denton]

It could be the rear end is loose, too. Check all your control rod bushings, and panhard bar bushings also!

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by jeff denton It could be the rear end is loose, too. Check all your control rod bushings, and panhard bar bushings also!

Jeff, that's just nuts. The next thing you'll be suggesting is that the tail wags the dog. It doesn't does it?

Harold

[GTJIM]

Think of it this way - if one rear wheel moves forward and the other back the wheel base is now longer one side than the other ... and the rear axle is no longer 'square' with the chassis.

This has the effect of 'steering' the car towards the 'short' side as the rear wheels want to track at right-angles to the diff axle.

Indeed, this effect is used on Dirt Track racing where the outside wheels are set up to 3" further apart than the inside wheels - this produces vicious over-steer so that with a twitch of the steering wheel the back end of the car can be 'hung out' and the car does a controlled drift around the corner - often with the front wheels on full opposite lock and the rear wheels scrabbling for traction!

[namba209]

Actually Harold, Jeff could be right. I had bad swing arm bushings on my motorcycle, and when I went off-road with it, I got pitched on my head, because the swing arm was inputting changes to my steering geometry. I ended up going into full cycle tank slappers with the handlebars and got dumped.

[hrcollinsjr]

Ron, probably not in this case, it might be a contributing factor. Go back and read the previous posts and I think you'll agree. Among other things the problem seemed to get worse after an alignment.

And yes, the tail can wag the dog or at least in cars anyway.

Harold

[matl59]

Thanks for the additional comments guys. You've given me a lot of things to chase. First I was going to do the rack adjustment but it hasn't been moved in a number of years and didn't want to budge. I will probably drop the rack to gain better access.

I doubt very much that the rear end has any thing to do with my issue. I've recently gone to polyurethane bushings all around back there so it is tight.

It was a busy weekend of installing fence so I didn't get a chance to do much with the Opel. Hopefully I'll have more time after work this week to look at it...

[matl59]

And thanks to the moderator who changed stearing to steering

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by matl59 And thanks to the moderator who changed stearing to steering

No worries mate

[wrench459]

OOOHH WEEE
Where going to open a can of worns here.
Number one rule make sure the diff. is aligned to the centerline of the body.
It all starts in the rear while were here is an Opel a pusher or a puller?

[jeff denton]

I like mine set so that the right rear wheel is about 1/4" aft of the left. No, the rear is not square! And guess what, the rear of the car does not set level, either. When body roll happens in a left hand turn, I want this out of square situation to get worse. It's called roll oversteer, and it made the push go away. It also causes the car to get awful loose if things like stagger and crossweight aren't perfect, these are simple adjustments made for changing track conditions.
Don't do this on a street setup. The car would probably crash and burn if you ever tried to turn right...
Good poly bushings in the control rods and Panhard bar are an excellent modification. So we'll rule out the tail wagging the dog in this case.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by wrench459 OOOHH WEEE Where going to open a can of worns here. Number one rule make sure the diff. is aligned to the centerline of the body. It all starts in the rear while were here is an Opel a pusher or a puller?

I haven't measured mine, so I don't know for sure, but logic dictates, that because the engine and tranny are offset to the right of the car, the differential may be also. For sure our Opels, or any RWD is a pusher, and FWD cars are pullers.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by matl59 Thanks for the additional comments guys. You've given me a lot of things to chase. First I was going to do the rack adjustment but it hasn't been moved in a number of years and didn't want to budge. I will probably drop the rack to gain better access.

If you go this route, now's the time to replace the rack-mounting bushings. They can rot out and deflect quite a bit as well, adding to the steering slop via tolerance stack-up. OGTS also has polyurethane ones which are a VERY nice upgrade for a GT or Kadett.

If you have trouble give me a yell, I have an extra set of those bushings and a car lift you know....

[matl59]

I decided it was best to pull the front suspension and do it all instead of putting a band-aid on the problem. Aside from rebuilding the diff and transmission this is really the last part of the car I have yet to go through so it was about time...

The whole assembly is now out from under the car and partially disassembled. Hopefully I'll have it all cleaned up and rebuilt in the next few weeks. There was some play in the rack mount bushings as well as the control arm bushings.

One question,

I've got a 69 GT. Anyone have a source for the inner metal sleeves that go in the control arm bushings? I see Inner Sleeves, Metal P/N 3059 on the OGTS web site but it specifies that they are for the 72-73 bushings...

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by matl59 One question, I've got a 69 GT. Anyone have a source for the inner metal sleeves that go in the control arm bushings? I see Inner Sleeves, Metal P/N 3059 on the OGTS web site but it specifies that they are for the 72-73 bushings...

That is one difference between early and late GT front suspensions - the inner sleeve has a slightly larger OD on the 72-73 upper bushings. Just get the Poly bushes that fit the larger size and use the new 72-73 inner sleeves - the bolt size and outer sleeve size is similar for both types.

Opel stiffened up the front suspension on later GTs by increasing the inner bush diameter, which thinned the rubber between that and the outer case that presses into the upper 'A'-arm.

DON'T remove the outer case/sleeve from the 'A'-arm as it just needs to have the rubber removed (usually by fire!) and the inside polished up for the Poly bush to fit into and turn as the suspension works - plenty of the lube supplied needs to be smeared on both outside and inside of the Poly bushes.
The outer retaining washers also needs to be reversed so that the Poly bush is not trapped or crushed (so that it can rotate).

[matl59]

the bolt size and outer sleeve size is similar for both types.

Assuming you mean inner sleeve size...is that similar or are they the same? I wouldn't think you'd want any play between the bolt and sleeve, then again with everything tight those surfaces should not move against each other.

Sucks that I already purchased bushings for the smaller 69 sleeves. Is this pretty much the consensus amongst the rest of the opel community...that I should go to the later bushings and sleeves? Maybe I'll check out the couple of spare front ends that I have to see if they have some salvageable sleeves...

[opelbits]

Which bushings did you get, hard or soft? I don't think it would matter too much on a street car is you use the bushings you have.

The bolts are the same as are the inner sleeve bolt hole I.D.'s. It's only the outer diameter of the inner sleeves that changes.
The outer sleeve fits against the control arm, inner sleeve against the bolt. Remove the rubber part of the existing bushing and leave the outer sleeve in the control arm, you'd have a hell of a time getting it back in.

The upper control arm bolts do tend to wear the bolt holes in the suspension crossmember. They can get a little oblong, so don't be surprised if when you loosen the bolt it wobbles a little.

[matl59]

I'd have to dig out my invoice for the parts. They were purchased a while ago and I'm not completely sure but I think I bought the soft bushings. Thats not really the point though. I have no problem using them if I can get some decent metal sleeves to go through them. Mine are pitted badly on the surface that contacts the bushing... See illustration. Otherwise it looks like I'll need new later bushings and the later sleeves...and if the bolts are also different then I'll need them as well.

Anyone have an exploded view of the front suspension? I've looked through my manuals and found nothing. Trying to figure out the proper hardware for the lower a frame. Looks as though the previous owner did some suspension work and included large split washers between the washer and bushing. I'm sure its not correct...

[matl59]

Anyone have an exploded view of the front suspension?

I see nice drawings of the exploded rear suspension in my manuals but none of the front...