Wheels on ebay

[Wolfman3002]

Has anyone looked at these wheels on ebay?
eBay Motors: Opel GT BMW 2002 VW Slotted Mag Wheels And Spinners (item 320097219784 end time Apr-05-07 11:00:00 PDT) "4 X 100 bolt pattern, 13" X 5.5" wide, 2 and 7/8" backspace, by my best measurements 7mm negative offset. Insides have the following stamping: Wheel Distributors Inc, Ontario Calif, 13 X 5.5, Meets SEMA specs 5-1"
I've been thinking about bidding on them, but I'm not sure, because of the negative offset (which I calculate out to be about 9mm, not the 7mm in the add). Will these wheels fit? I did a search, but found very little about wheels w/ a negative offset. This is why I hesitate to bid. Based on what I know about offset, the Opel GT needs about a +20 offset, am I right? Or is that only w/ a 15 inch wheel? I assumed a -9mm offset will push the front wheel face out towards the fender by about an inch from stock? Will this work, or am I looking at fender rubbing, or other issues like the bearings getting stressed. Any help you guys could give me would be great.
Randy

[namba209]

Randy, those measurements, 2 7/8" back space, are real close to what I have on Willit? in the front, and I've had very minor rubbing to the inside wheel well at full left or right lock, mine are 5.5" also. The edge of the tire is about 1" inside the fender well and shouldn't pose a suspension compression rubbing problem. HTH.

[Wolfman3002]

Ron,
That helps a lot. A few questions: What size tires do you run on them? Do you have the same size wheels/tires front and back? How do they perform from a cornering stadpoint? And finally, do you know what the widest and or lowest profile tires that will work w/ the 5.5" rims"?
Thanks,
Randy

[namba209]

Randy, to be honest, I haven't had the chance to do any "spirited" driving with Willit?, but I do know the Sumitomo 205 X 60 X 13 tires I have on all 4 corners, do grip well. At least when I saw Paul Heebink (azopelnut) drive it. That was when The engine would die in about 5 seconds when you let out the clutch, so he did a couple of banzai takeoffs and although the tires did spin a bit, he moved it out right smartly. I can't give you any other tire sizes for what you've asked, I kept to this size for speedo error, it's close to the original diameter tires. Others may be able to give you a better idea of how they perform, right now. HTH.

[Wolfman3002]

Ron,
So, you have the same size tires all the way around. I thought though that you had wider wheels in the back (from the Willit Update thread) than on the front? Or did you eventually get 5.5" wheels all the way around?
Randy

[namba209]

Randy, same size tires, different wheel widths, I've got 5.5 up front and 6.5 in the rear. The tires I got were the only size I found that would fit the wider rear wheels. As it sits both front and rear tires are inside wheel wells, the rears just barely.

[Wolfman3002]

Ron,
Do you have a picture of the front wheels mounted on the car anywhere on this site? Maybe a 3/4 view? It's looking like I'll bid on the wheels, although now I see someone else has bid, so the price will be higher than I'd hoped.
Randy

[namba209]

Randy, check out the pics in post # 684 and # 651 in my Willit? update thread. It's on the main page today after I did an update on my tach problem.

[Phoenix]

These wheels are being sold by Xtego. Everything that he has is held to a very high standard. If you were to bid on a set of Mag wheels, these would be the ones to get. You might want to watch out, it's obvious that these are very nice wheels and you might have a lot of people waiting to snipe at the very end. So, good luck.

[GTJIM]

Unfortunately the wheels have an Offset that falls way outside the GT standard of around 28mm. The effect of this is that steering geometry can be severely compromised. The King Pin axis (scrub radius for ball joint front suspensions like the GT has ....) is radically altered as offset moves away from the factory specification. No matter what width of rim is used the offset must remain close to the same as standard - maybe + or - half an inch (12mm). So the Offset of rims to be used on the front of a GT needs to be between 28-12 = 16 minimum and 28+12 = 40 maximum!! The exact offset is highly desirable.

The Kingpin axis offset (scrub radius) is something that one must look at and there are a couple interesting things related to it. The main reason it is done is for packing of components i.e. brakes, suspension and steering. The wheel is essentially pushed out to make room and the resulting rotation is not about the center of the tires contact patch in a vertical sense. It rotates about a point toward the inside of the contact patch which adds steering feedback from the front end. It determines how the suspension and self-centering steering behave. The most obvious problem that will occur if you get it wrong is that the steering will either become so heavy that you can't turn the steering wheel, or so light that you need to spend all your time keeping it in a straight line.

o Bearing Load
The bearings in the suspension were designed to take loads within certain angles. Increasing the offset beyond a certain point can severely increase the wear on bearings and suspension components in general.

o Scrub Radius
Scrub radius is the distance from the point where the steering axis meets the ground, to the center of the contact patch of the tire. Zero scrub radius is desirable. Increasing the scrub radius will result in more kickback through the steering wheel when you hit bumps and increased steering effort.

To maintain handling characteristics and avoid undue loads on bushes and balljoints, the car maker's original offset should be maintained when choosing new wheels.

Wheels are usually stamped with their offset using the German prefix "ET", meaning "Einpresstiefe" or, literally, "insertion depth". An example would be "ET45" for a 45mm offset.





HTH

[namba209]

So, Jim, you're saying the wheels that came on Willit? when I first bough it are not correct? Darn, and I've been driving it like that for about 12 years, off and on.

[Wolfman3002]

Ron,
Thanks for the pointer to the pics of your car. I really like the look of those wheels, and the rears ones really fill out the wheel wells nicely (I do realize the rears are 6.5", not 5.5").
Jim,
Thanks for your info. It makes me hesitate to bid on these wheels, but I've got to also give some weight to the experience that Ron has w/ these same wheels. Ron, how does you steering feel around corners? Have you noticed any any heaviness or lightness in the steering effort
I don't want to start anything here, I just want as much info as I can get before making a serious bid for these wheels.
Thanks Guys,
Randy

[namba209]

Randy, after driving the monza, with power steering for the past 6+ years, I can't equate with the GT when I quit driviing it 12-14 years ago. It definatly takes a bit of force to turn the wheels at a dead stop, but that could be because of the V-6 or the fatter tires, IDK. Once rolling it steers nicely with no more than "normal" force to turn the wheel. I just haven't had it on the road enuff to make a good determinaton. But that's gonna change shortly.

BTW my wheels have been chromed, I tried to polish them but after 3 months on each wheel and clear coating them, they didn't stay good looking long enuff, so to the chrome shop they went, 9 of them. Well actually 8, I've still got one to go. 4 for the car and a matching 4 on Willit?'s trailer,.

[Wolfman3002]

Ron,
Yah, I really like the way your wheels shine w/ the chrome on them. I think, though, if I do get these wheels, I'll try the polishing route to begin with (cheaper, although much harder). I like the look of polished aluminum. It has a certain sheen that you don't get w/ chrome. From your Willit thread, I get the impression that you spent a LOT of time polishing your wheels. What process did you use?
Randy

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Wolfman3002 I don't want to start anything here, I just want as much info as I can get before making a serious bid for these wheels. Thanks Guys, Randy

Just playing smart ass - Devil's Advocate!

BTW: The inner front wheel bearing is larger because it is the main weight carrying one - as the wheel offset becomes more negative and the wheel centre line moves outwards the load carrying line moves out too. So the outer (smaller!) wheel bearing takes more and more load and the stub axle begins to be bent up and down with the loads ... like a piece of wire ...

Yes, Virginia ... I have seen stub axles break off under the battering from big, heavy tyres and wheels with too much offset - on dirt track racers mostly.

Wheel selection criteria:

1) They LOOK good
2) They don't RUB ... much
3) They LOOK GOOD!
4) Others ARE fitting the same wheels
5) THEY LOOK GOOD
6) Steering GEOMETRY - I hate Geometry!
7) THEY REALLY DO LOOK GOOD!
8) The Girls/Boys think they look good
9) I don't even notice the difference in steering effort!
10) As Baz once said: "Spinney, spinney! - Die! Die!"

I'll say no more - other than .... Yep - They DO look good!

[namba209]

Well Randy, you asked for it. I use the same process I use on my model boat racing hardware. I have a submersible aquarium pump in a 5 gallon bucket full of water and using 3M wet/dry paper, I put the wheel on top of the bucket and run water over the wheel. I Start with 3M wet/dry 320 wet to remove bleminshes/casting marks. Then I got to 400 wet to remove the scratches from the 320, after that 600 wet, to take out the 400 scratches, then 1200 wet to remove the 600 scratches. Now comes the time consuming part. Using the same piece of 1200 paper that was wet, I now use it dry, continually going over the entire wheel until it (the paper) becomes impregnated with the wheel material and starts burnishing tjhe wheel, Eventually the wheel will form a haze and when the haze finally goes away and you can see yourself in the wheel like a mirror, you''re done. The latter part, I use a towel across my lap in my recliner, watching TV, for a week or two. Then take a couple of weeks off for the fingerprints to grow back.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by GTJIM Just playing smart ass - Devil's Advocate! I'll say no more - other than .... Yep - They DO look good!

That's too cool Jim, I do appreciate the explanations. I guess I've just been lucky, or the spindles are a lot stronger than thought. Of course I've done the regular maintenance thing when I was driving it, and have new bearings all the way around now. Come to think about it more, most of my driving it was high speed freeway driving, not a lot of severe pothole impacts to the suspension.

[Wolfman3002]

You guys are a fountain of info! I appreciate the time you spend giving back to the Opel community here. I don't know how I worked on my other Opels back in the 70s and 80s. Without this site for info (and inspiration), and ebay for parts, I would take forever to restore one of these cars.
Ron, I thought about using my dremel and some buffing and polishing compound for the final stages of refinishing the wheels (if I win them), or maybe a buffing pad on my drill. Did you try either of these when you were polishing your wheels?
Jim, I guess the bottom line for me now is looks, and I'm planning on rebuilding the front end anyway, so I'll check out the spindles carefully when I do, and replace the bearings. Maybe I'll even look into getting a spare set of spindles (just in case).
Randy

[neuropel]

Randy, I recently polished up some rims using Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish on a drill pad. This was after scuffing VERY lightly with a 3M light weight scotchbrite-like pad. The wheels I was working on had a lot of surface crud I had to remove before the finish could be brought back properly. The Mothers really threw a nice finish on the aluminum, but the problem you run into (as Ron mentioned) is that the shine doesn't last very long. It's a constant battle. The pads you chuck into a drill DO work pretty well though, as long as you use a good compound with them.

Todd

[namba209]

Originally Posted by Wolfman3002 Ron, I thought about using my dremel and some buffing and polishing compound for the final stages of refinishing the wheels (if I win them), or maybe a buffing pad on my drill. Did you try either of these when you were polishing your wheels? Randy

Randy, when I was done with the wet/dry paper, I would use rubbing compound, polishing compound, Simi-Chrome, then finished it off with a coat of wax. All this was done by hand. I tried using my Dremel a couple of times but could not get a consistant finish. There's a pic of one of my wheels in thread #5 of my Willit? Update thread, if you care to check out what about 3 months and loss of fingerprints can accomplish.

[Phoenix]

Has anyone heard of a new product called ZoopSeal? Your supposed to be able to put in on polished or chromed surfaces and not have to clean them for 2-3 years. I was unable to find it at Walmart, Advanced or Pep Boys, but I haven't checked anywhere else yet. I may look more today or tommorrow. I want to try it on items that I cannot get powdercoated clear. Been really busy sanding, polishing and painting all kinds of stuff, not to mention all the things that are getting powdercoated. I worry about the polished stuff rusting even the slightest.

[BobCGT]

Eastwood carries ZoopSeal.

[jordan]

I have not tried zoop seal yet. It seems very expensive ($100-$125) though if it actually works as advertised it is worth it.

[Phoenix]

I guess at 100-120 bucks that I won't be able to find it at the usual auto shops. I saw it advertised on a show called Truck U (as in University). It sounded pretty cool but it is a little more expensive than I thought.

This reminds me of a hand cleaning product that I'm interested in but you have to buy it in bottles of 4 at over 100 bucks. It's called Zep TKO and I used it at a Powdercoating place. I can tell you that ever other product that I have used to clean my hands was far inferior to this stuff. It's like power-pumice in liquid form and I'm not talking about the whimpy GOJO stuff.

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Phoenix I guess at 100-120 bucks that I won't be able to find it at the usual auto shops. I saw it advertised on a show called Truck U (as in University). It sounded pretty cool but it is a little more expensive than I thought. This reminds me of a hand cleaning product that I'm interested in but you have to buy it in bottles of 4 at over 100 bucks. It's called Zep TKO and I used it at a Powdercoating place. I can tell you that ever other product that I have used to clean my hands was far inferior to this stuff. It's like power-pumice in liquid form and I'm not talking about the whimpy GOJO stuff.

During my lifetime I have tried about every metal polish know to man, and for my money Flitz works better and last longer than anything I have ever tried. As far as expensive hand cleaners, I can but a lifetime supply of surgical/mechanics gloves for $100 and not only keep my hand fairly clean but also keep solvents from getting on my skin, and at 67 it is wrinkled enough already