Problem over due (torn central donut)

[baronbors]

Well- it finally happened. After 6 years of no major problems, got a serious one (I think)G oing into work this morning, when down shifting, I felt a vibration in the clutch pedal. Stopped the car (71 GT) shifted into first- took off and a loud clunking and vibration happened when the clutch was half way engaged. Shifted from first to second and vibration was less- even less in third and fouth to being almost gone. When treaveling on road with clutch engaged, every thing is fine. Guessing clutch, pressure plate or throw out bearing? Search on clutch vibration= nothing relavent. Search on clutch sound =nope and seach on clutch buried me. As this will require a call to Gil or Denny, is there anything I can tell them I need as far as parts.. Any advice on difficulty as far as me replacing it - as I am not really equipted to do it.

[opelnut10]

Check the "doughnut" in the torque tube and the mounting blocks around the bearing "doughnut" they may be the problem. As long as you have freeplay onthe throwout arm and the clutch is not slipping you can rule out the throwout bearing and clutch

[baronbors]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 Check the "doughnut" in the torque tube and the mounting blocks around the bearing "doughnut" they may be the problem. As long as you have freeplay onthe throwout arm and the clutch is not slipping you can rule out the throwout bearing and clutch

What is the procedure for checking it?

[madhatterpdc]

If it is not the torque tube donut, and you determine that is clutch related, then you are going to want to replace the whole clutch kit, meaning Pressure plate, clutch disc, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing. Everytime I have ever replaced a clutch and skipped one of those parts, it has to turned around and bit me in the rear.

Also, it is technically highly recommended that you resurface or replace your flywheel, although I would say it is required.

One more thing, make sure you are 100% confident that the release arm and pivot are not bent worn or broken. That will eat up a throwout bearing real quick.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by baronbors What is the procedure for checking it?

Tom, IIRC, all you do is grab the torque tube behind the donut and see if there is any movement, up/down/left/right. There are a couple of rubber cylinders that could be worn also, they are visible looking inside the bracket, and a bump stop in the top of the bracket. If the donut is torn loose from the bracket, it would be a good time to replace the donut, the supports and the bump stop, the latter come in the new poly and are fair easy to replace.

[gr_diver]

Reminds me of a problem I had about 5 years ago. When I didn't let the clutch engage very gently, I had a noise coming from the bellhousing, like a worn bearing. Also, from time to time, the whole car was shuddering during engagement of the clutch in 1st or reverse gear. It turned out to be the friction disc out of alignment. It wasn't correctly installed from the beginning, about 3years before the problem became obvious... The friction surface looked as if it had been hit with a small punch almost everywhere.

The mechanic changed the friction disc (and both the throw-out and pilot bearings since he was there), and it was solved.

HTH

[baronbors]

Originally Posted by namba209 Tom, IIRC, all you do is grab the torque tube behind the donut and see if there is any movement, up/down/left/right. .

Grab the torque tube or the drive shaft?

[anastosmotors]

if the clutch is the problem, do not forget to replace the pilot
bearing with the disc, pressure plate and release bearing.
Bad pilot bearing can cause vibration
Pete

[namba209]

Originally Posted by baronbors Grab the torque tube or the drive shaft?

Torque Tube, Tom, the drive shaft is forward of the donut and mounting bracket. The driveshaft is a two parter, the front half has the u-joints the rear half gozinto the torque tube. The donut, cylinderical supports and the bumper stop all go around the torque tube, inside the mounting bracket. HTH.

[baronbors]

Originally Posted by namba209 Torque Tube, Tom, the drive shaft is forward of the donut and mounting bracket. The driveshaft is a two parter, the front half has the u-joints the rear half gozinto the torque tube. The donut, cylinderical supports and the bumper stop all go around the torque tube, inside the mounting bracket. HTH.

Got it- thanks. Going under the GT in about 10 minutes- results to follow

[hrcollinsjr]

From your description I'll put my money on the donut and torque tube mounts being bad.

If it is the clutch and you replace it without resurfacing the flywheel, you've voided your warranty. I've replaced several without resurfacing and I've been lucky so far but there's always that chance.

Harold

[baronbors]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr From your description I'll put my money on the donut and torque tube mounts being bad. If it is the clutch and you replace it without resurfacing the flywheel, you've voided your warranty. I've replaced several without resurfacing and I've been lucky so far but there's always that chance. Harold

Just got done jacking the GT up on one side to get my fat butt under the car.
I can see the outer metal column that is bolted onto the diff and the support bracket in front just past the u-joint. Grabbing ahold of the u-joint and checking for movement., I can move the shaft going into the outer metal cylinder about a half an inch in all directions and in and out about the same. I hope that this is the torque tube and it shouldn't be moveable that much. Am I right???????

Harold- I have not touched the clutch yet but when I do- everything will be replaced and have the flywheel resurfaced. I know eventually the clutch is going out- I just hope that this isn't the time.

[namba209]

Tom, the outer tube is the torque tube, in and out movement is controlled by a spring inside the tranny housing around the output shaft, and held in place by the front u-joint yoke shaft. The up and down, left/right movement I can't comment on, but could be the center support bearing is bad. IDK. If the donut is bad or the cylindrical supports are worn, the torque tube or outer tube will move. It would be better to check it with both rear tires off the ground, so the tires won't restrict movement, if there is any. HTH.

[baronbors]

OK- if the outer metal tube is the torque tube- it is solid in the central joint assembly with the wheels on the ground ( no movement at all- solid). But the drive shaft extension going thru the tube seems to have all the play in it.
The rubber between the tube and the shaft seems to be collapsed. Is this the donut and would it cause the vibrations when shifting?

[markandson]

The donut and three small rubber spacers keep the whole assembly centered. Any part of it that fails will allow the whole thing to vibrate like a bad load in a washing machine.

[baronbors]

Originally Posted by markandson The donut and three small rubber spacers keep the whole assembly centered. Any part of it that fails will allow the whole thing to vibrate like a bad load in a washing machine.

BINGO- that a great discription of what is happening. Sounds like I will be ordering a whole lot of parts from Gil or Denny. What all besides the donut and stops will I need? BTW- thanks every body for the help- this site is still the greatest

[GTJIM]

Tom, Here is a good thread about the replacement of that dang doughnut ....:

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/4b-prop...rque-tube.html

[baronbors]

Ordered the parts today from Dennis at OGTS. A little over 100 clams for everthing- not bad.. Should have it by Saturday which means I should be close to the 1000 post club by Sunday night. Wish me luck.

[baronbors]

WELL- that dang donut is in. This is the last time I will ever attept to change this blankety blank blank thing EVER again. What a pain in the a&&.
Overall, I would rate this a 3-4 on the dificulty scale with 5 being the highest.
Just got back from my test drive and all the the banging and vibrations are gone from clutching and turning corners. I still have a little vibration when starting in first from a dead start- I am hoping that the donut needs a little breaking in time to smooth out. Thanks for the help on this project, now I have to find a way to clean 35 years of grease and road grime off of my hands.

[jordan]

I unfortuanltly have a problem with my new heavy duty torque tube donut from ogts, it is one year old and last fall the clunk came back. I had the car up on the lift today and the donut is all split and dry rotted....not too pleased. A refund if offered wont even be too satifying because as you found out, it's not a walk in the park to install; or re-install in this case.

[GTJIM]

Using a Cricket bat and scented body oil makes the whole job - well NOT easier .... but at least more enjoyable!

Not one of Opel's finest design features ..

Jordan - the rubber should not have deteriorated that quickly ... unless you are pushing some serious horsepower back through there.

[namba209]

Thinking seriously about having to change the donut in Willit?, if needed again, I would pull the whole rear-end to do it. Yeah, that'd be a PIA to do it that way, but accessability to the whole end of the shaft and bracket would be worth it. I think it only took 15-30 minutes, it was that long ago, to remove and re-install the donut. And the rear-end isn't that hard to take out and install, it's just the brakes, bleeding and adjusting, that takes the most time.

[Lindsay]

Was lucky few years ago to have extra torque tube assy with good rubber parts. When I removed torque tube tube from GT differential, darn differential shifted position, then oil pouring out of the pinion seal! Next time I will drain gear oil as preventive maintenance.

Not sure how I would prevent differential from aburtly shifting position when torque tube is removed. I read permalink #17. Appears best method may be to remove rear springs and re-attach shocks for alignment?

Used large pin punch to re-align torque tube to chassis (body) mounting holes. Took some major grunting to re-align everything. Next time I might try using one long bolt with head cut-off to act as guide stud.

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Lindsay Was lucky few years ago to have extra torque tube assy with good rubber parts. When I removed torque tube tube from GT differential, darn differential shifted position, then oil pouring out of the pinion seal! Next time I will drain gear oil as preventive maintenance. Not sure how I would prevent differential from aburtly shifting position when torque tube is removed. I read permalink #17. Appears best method may be to remove rear springs and re-attach shocks for alignment? Used large pin punch to re-align torque tube to chassis (body) mounting holes. Took some major grunting to re-align everything. Next time I might try using one long bolt with head cut-off to act as guide stud.

Disconnecting the panhard bar and lower end of the shocks will make bolting the front of the torque tube to the floor easier. You must be very careful about sticking punches and such in the bolt holes and prying, if you mess the threads up in the hole or break the tack weld on the captured nut in there you are in deep kim chee sure enough.

[namba209]

IIRC, I just had the differential with torque tube attached, hooked up the torque tube bracket to the car, then hooked up the trailing arms, put in the springs, then panhard rod, then lower shocks. It didn't seem to be that hard a job. Like I said earlier, the brake hookup, adjusting and bleeding took the most time. I think the whole mess took about 3-4 hours. But then, when you're retarded like I am, time is of little consequence.