Noisy Lifter

[Cherrybomb]

Hello all, I am getting frustrated with searching through old threads to find the answer to my question.

I recently bought an old sitting Opel 1900GT and am loving it. The owner is a trusted friend (who is a backyard mechanic) and told me upon the purchase that the loud clicking sound I hear was a noisy lifter, and that he had by means of a stethescope determined it was a sticking lifter aft of the engine. I had intentions to fix this annoying sound from the get go, but by following with advice from him and other sources, I decided to pour an oil additive into my first oil change and let the years of sitting work through the engine to see if the sound would go away.

It did get quieter, but never went away.

The engine seemes to function quite well, despite this noise, and I've been told this is reason to believe it is in fact a noisy lifter. That being the case, I still want to kill this sound, it adds insult to my poor paint job and gives others a chance to critisize my choice of buying a project car...

I am ready to tear the valve cover off but have got only mixed advice from searching the forum. So far, I guess I should pour transmission fluid into my carb while keeping it running. Is this the best idea? Should I just find and replace the lifter? should I soak the responsible lifter in magic oil like racebob said?

a simple answer would be appreciated for a new opel owner, and an amatuer mechanic...

Also, my oil pressure is running 1.5 to 2 all the time, and as I suspected, it is probably too low. What is a good pressure reading exactly? again I've spent a good amount of time searching for the answer to no avail... I used 10-W40 for its first oil change, and I guess this might be a reason for such low readings and a lifter still making noise...

One step at a time, this car is getting better and better, but for now is still an eye sore...

[namba209]

Read all the below posts in the thread listed below. There may be no need to remove the lifter to take care of the noise.

Rocker arms - Opel Community Forums

[neuropel]

Cherrybomb,

First thing you need to know is whether you have solid or hydraulic lifters since the adjustment is different for each type. Does the lifter quiet down after the engine is warmed up a bit or is it consistently noisy all the time? You might get a little better oil pressure if you switch to 20w50, and that could also quiet down your lifter. Check the adjustment in the thread Ron pointed out, and be sure to note the recent discussion regarding low zinc content in newer motor oils and how it can negatively impact older engines.

Todd K.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by neuropel Cherrybomb, First thing you need to know is whether you have solid or hydraulic lifters since the adjustment is different for each type. <snipped>You might get a little better oil pressure if you switch to 20w50, and that could also quiet down your lifter. Todd K.

Solid lifters are going to make a ticking sound, nature of the beast. I tried 20w50 on a 1.9 that had lower oil pressure than I liked. I saw no difference and the engine was noticeably slower revving. The ticking sound in one engine I had turned out to be the timing chain. It quietened when it broke. If you have hydraulic lifters you might try Marvel Mystery oil or any number of other additives that are supposed to quieten sticking lifters.

HTH,
Harold

[GTJIM]

The main causes of this are:

-Component wear due to high milage - or low zinc content oil. Only replacement of both cam and lifter can quiet this.

-The internal components of the lifter 'sticking' due to oil contamination or varnish build up (sometimes even rust in an engine that has been sitting a long time).

This can often be improved by 'cleaning' the lifter in place with proprietary products such as Marvel Mystery Oil or some other lifter fluid added to the oil.

Hydraulic lifters can also be removed (be careful to replace them on the exact cam lobe they were removed from ....) then disassembled and ultra-sonically cleaned. Even soaking in Laquer thinner sometimes works ...

Even NOS hydraulic lifters can be 'stuck' in the packet and need to be checked for smooth operation and oiled before installation. I have seen several genuine GM HL-70 lifters that were internally rusted when removed from the factory packing - bad storage, I guess.

A 'quick & nasty' fix is to replace the one lifter with another 'good' one that has had the contact face lapped smooth with fine (1200 grit) Wet&Dry paper. The danger of this is that there will be accelerated cam lobe wear leading to cam replacement - but it can work for a while till you are ready to install new cam and lifters ... your risk!

If all else fails - buy a good sound system and turn it up to drown the sound. Advice I was given for a noisy diff in a '57 Chevy many years ago.

[Dennis Texas]

Originally Posted by Cherrybomb Hello all, I am getting frustrated with searching through old threads to find the answer to my question. I recently bought an old sitting Opel 1900GT and am loving it. The owner is a trusted friend (who is a backyard mechanic) and told me upon the purchase that the loud clicking sound I hear was a noisy lifter,

Take the valve cover off feel the rockers arm if not are noticeable loose then turn motor over another 180 degrees and check again. If you can't feel lifter(s) that are noticeable loose then you probably have hydraulic lifters and one is worn or has bad oil issues. Older opels are also sometimes notorious for the locking nut to back off the stud for the adjustment of the lifter. I would take valve cover off and do a more investigative type look see. You may need nothing more than some new locking nuts and lash the valves.

[Cherrybomb]

The previous owner said it has hydraulic lifters, I believe him. He actually told me to open it up, find the noisy one and soak it in oil and replace it. So I went and bought a new gasket and got ready to open it up but at his advice I let it run 1000 miles as is and it helped a little. I guess opening it up is a good idea for now based on what ya'll are telling. I'll take the lifter out and soak it in mystery oil and do a valve adjustment.

About the zinc content, I read it. My first pick on oil was a bad one, penzoil 10-40 is not on that list. Thankfully, its due for a change and I now know which oils to choose...

About the oil pressure, I still do not have a clear answer to what a good oil pressure is. Below 2 is probably bad, I assumed so, and might be the reason my lifter is sticking right? if not enough oil is reaching the cam and lifters, it would make sense that it would stick.

It probably isn't wear, the engine was rebuilt, top to bottom less than 5,000 miles ago...

Thanks for the help...

[oldopelguy]

Any reason you are assuming a sticky lifter instead of one that just needs a valve adjustment? When you're talking about a lifter sticking, you're talking about the internal parts of the lifter sticking to the external parts and making the lifter effectively shorter as a result, which causes the lifter to add some slop in the valve train and make a rattling noise. It's just as likely that the lock nut on the rocker arm has loosened up and that the slop has nothing what-so-ever to do with any mechanical problem of the lifter itself.

If the engine has used Penzoil all it's life than I would probably assume sticking, because of the stuff Penzoil leaves all over the inside of engines. (In my opinion the worst possible oil to use on any car.) If it had regular oil changes and regular maintenance done then lifters don't often just "stick" and not fix themselves, and in fact solid lifters can't.

In your shoes, I would start with a valve adjustment, and in the process I would see if I could squeeze each lifter a bit to make sure it was free. Then I would paint a small stripe on the end of the rocker studs and the nut to mark their as adjusted position. If the noise comes back you can then check to see if the nuts have moved by easy inspection.

[Cherrybomb]

the "lifter" was making noise since I bought it, and the only reason I bought Pennzoil is because after sitting for so long, hardly being used, I wanted an oil that I wouldn't mind throwing away as I am going to do and oil change prematurely because it was sitting.

I had doubts that the rocker arms were loose, only because the owner told me the valve adjustment was done less than 500 miles from when I bought it and they shouldn't have gotten loose without hardly running the engine. However, because he would start it up once or twice a year for good upkeep, and the oil pressure is low, I figured it may have just gotten starved for oil...

The oil additive I used was Engine Restore, in a silver can. It is supposed to be for compresssion, although compresssion was good, I figured it would help out something...

[Turbo X]

Originally Posted by Cherrybomb The previous owner said it has hydraulic lifters, I believe him. He actually told me to open it up, find the noisy one and soak it in oil and replace it. So I went and bought a new gasket and got ready to open it up but at his advice I let it run 1000 miles as is and it helped a little. I guess opening it up is a good idea for now based on what ya'll are telling. I'll take the lifter out and soak it in mystery oil and do a valve adjustment. About the zinc content, I read it. My first pick on oil was a bad one, penzoil 10-40 is not on that list. Thankfully, its due for a change and I now know which oils to choose... About the oil pressure, I still do not have a clear answer to what a good oil pressure is. Below 2 is probably bad, I assumed so, and might be the reason my lifter is sticking right? if not enough oil is reaching the cam and lifters, it would make sense that it would stick. It probably isn't wear, the engine was rebuilt, top to bottom less than 5,000 miles ago... Thanks for the help...

my oil pressure is 3 to 4 what ever that means, so to be sure get a good oil pressure gage and find an oil port off the engine and hook it up, it's the only way test the gage in the car and what the real pressure is..
as far as you lifter problem ,, your going to need to repair it ,, doctor fix it in the oil or gas is not going to work, the more mile you put on it the more damage you do to your cam and the more money you'll spend on parts.. I think you may have gone to far now! , and the cam going to need inspection, and maybe resurfacing..
you say it was over hauled 5000 miles ago, my question would be,, who did the work and what parts were replace and or repaird... 5000 mile is not a lot of mile for a lifter and cam to fail. most likely they never got touched.
in that case it's more like a 100,000 mile or more on them, and could explain your low oil pressure, the cam bearings, and your problems... let us know what you find...

[Dennis Texas]

I can't find it now but at some point and time some one did a side by side comparison for the actual PSI reading compared to bars and they also did the temperature. I can't find either now, found this while searching though. I'm not the original author of that so can't speak for it's validity, but it makes sense.

"5 Bars oil pressure is about 70psi (5 X atmospheric pressure = 5 X 14.7 = 73.5psi)"

[jvandyke]

I understand the CIH relies more on a good volume of oil then pressure.
So, anything near 3.5+bars at high RPM is okay, anything above 1 at idle, likewise is okay (if I'm remembering correctly)
Now I'm wondering if too much pressure could be a bad thing just because I hate oil leaks, if 3 bars is fine and 5 makes oil squirt out everywhere, I'll take the 3.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by Cherrybomb The oil additive I used was Engine Restore, in a silver can. It is supposed to be for compresssion, although compresssion was good, I figured it would help out something...

Great Stuff! Rebuild in a can. I tried it once in my Opel about 10 years ago. Haven't gotten to drive it since, lifters started making a ticking sound and I discovered it wasn't oiling to the head anymore. Haven't driven it since. I'm being VERY SERIOUS!!! I'd drain the oil and maybe even go so far as to use an engine flush before driving it anymore.

JM2CW,

Harold

[Cherrybomb]

Originally Posted by Turbo X my oil pressure is 3 to 4 what ever that means, so to be sure get a good oil pressure gage and find an oil port off the engine and hook it up, it's the only way test the gage in the car and what the real pressure is.. as far as you lifter problem ,, your going to need to repair it ,, doctor fix it in the oil or gas is not going to work, the more mile you put on it the more damage you do to your cam and the more money you'll spend on parts.. I think you may have gone to far now! , and the cam going to need inspection, and maybe resurfacing.. you say it was over hauled 5000 miles ago, my question would be,, who did the work and what parts were replace and or repaird... 5000 mile is not a lot of mile for a lifter and cam to fail. most likely they never got touched. in that case it's more like a 100,000 mile or more on them, and could explain your low oil pressure, the cam bearings, and your problems... let us know what you find...

less than 500 miles! that's certainly not enought time to warrant wear...

the work was done at a socal machine shop, the valves were re-seated and a new cam put in less than 1,000 miles ago (but 30 years ago)...

about the rocker slipping, I wouldn't have guessed that, but I'll open it up and see for sure. That would be a relatively easy fix for me, considering my limited skills...

Oil pressure sometimes dips below 1 at warm idle, and never goes above 2.5... methinks meneeds a new oil pump...

[Turbo X]

It's an easy enough check being that its out side of the engine...make sure you us a torque wrench when you put it together..

[jeff denton]

I agree with Turbo's advice to hook up a quality mechanical oil pressure gage that reads in PSI (a language we understand) and then compare its readings at various temps and RPMs to the antique electric gage in the dash.
This is like getting a second opinion from another doctor.
We don't know if the oil pump was overhauled with the rest of the engine, but it is simple to "look at".
Since you think your mechanical skills are limited, a logical approach to this will ensure you are on the right track.
So tell us what the oil pressure is according a known good, accurate pressure gage.