Oil in Carb/Weber Airfilter pan

[74MantaRay]

Hi, I've got a question regarding lots of oil found in airfilter pan. Read alot of threads but could not find something that discussed the same question(apoligise in advance if I missed it). I own a '72 Manta A 1.9S. I'm new to this engine rebuilding and learning as I go a long.

The hose that leads to the Weber from the Valve cover, I understand is a breather, right?
There is always a lot of oil in the Air filter pan. Is this normal? Will the oil in the Weber not influence the performance. I thought that the cover had some kind of splash gaurd to prevent the oil from entering the carb? Is there something I can do to prevent this?
Any help for a Rookie (I sound like my 5 year old son with all the Questions )

[MICAH1]

My answer to that would be the blowby from the valve cover is forcing oil to the pan of your filter assembly. This may also indicate the retainer (rings) on the piston may need replacement. Check your cylinder compression..

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by MICAH1 My answer to that would be the blowby from the valve cover is forcing oil to the pan of your filter assembly. This may also indicate the retainer (rings) on the piston may need replacement. Check your cylinder compression..

This would be my first thought also. After checking the compression you may want to try to try to clean the screen in the Manta valve cover. It normally isn't removable but I believe someone did a "how to" on opening up the internal baffle in order to remove or clean and replace the mesh in the top of the valve cover. You could just switch to an Al GT valve cover, the mesh is easily removed for cleaning or replacing.

My second thought is a simple question. Is there a vacuum line attached to the smaller hole in the valve cover? This serves as a Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve.

You are correct in the fact that there is some type of problem. Are your spark plugs oil fouled also?

HTH,
Harold

[wrench459]

ditto with the above replys..sounds like blowby.
The oil rings could also be gummed up with carbon goo.
I normally don't recommend a mechanic in a can but for only a few bucks it might be worth a try.
Chrysler Combustion Chamber cleaner.
Get the engine hot then remove the spark plugs. Fill the cylinders with the product(use the whole can) and let it sit over night. After you reinstall the plugs the next morning and start her up the whole neighborhood will be free of mosquitos.
It'll be poring out blue smoke...like in massive amounts.
After it clears up do some full throttle runs to help loosen up the rings.
Hey its better than a rebuilt if it works.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by wrench459 Chrysler Combustion Chamber cleaner.

Is that better than using Seafoam? There are all kinds of youtube videos with people using the stuff to clean the carbon from their combustion chambers and the resulting smoke associated with these products.

Harold

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr Is that better than using Seafoam? There are all kinds of youtube videos with people using the stuff to clean the carbon from their combustion chambers and the resulting smoke associated with these products. Harold

Oh yes its better than seafoam. So good that 50 percent of the time the cat will start working again..P0420 hint hint Butyl Cellusolve seems to be the key

[Gary]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr ....My second thought is a simple question. Is there a vacuum line attached to the smaller hole in the valve cover? This serves as a Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve.

Don't overlook this one. If the vacuum line is not connected, leaks, or the port is blocked, pressure will build in the engine and it could force oil mist out through the large hose. The small hose on my '69 GT came off one time and the pressure blew out a section of the valve cover gasket. What a mess! That hose is important.


Also, there should be a mesh inside the top of the valve cover to help stop the oil mist from escaping. Note: If there is none, do not use steel wool as a replacement. Use only a stainless steel mesh.

[Aardvaark]

Like everyone says, sounds like blowby.
If you do what people suggest and it still does it,
try making/buying/installing a blow by catch tank like racers use in
the breather hose.

[74MantaRay]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr This would be my first thougts also. After checking the compression .... My second thought is a simple question. Is there a vacuum line attached to the smaller hole in the valve cover? This serves as a Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve. You are correct in the fact that there is some type of problem. Are your spark plugs oil fouled also? HTH, Harold

Firstly, thank you for everyone's advice and input.

Tested compression seems fine. It's between 8-9?
The spark plugs are black but dry. I guess it's due to the Manta tuned to run a bit rich?
No vacuum line attached to smaller hole. Will try that this weekend and see if it helps.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by 74MantaRay Firstly, thank you for everyones advice and input. Tested compression seems fine. It's between 8-9? The spark plugs are black but dry. I guess it's due to the Manta tuned to run a bit rich? No vacuum line attached to smaller hole. Will try that this weekend and see if it helps.

Compression is usually measured in PSI. Do you know if your engine is a high or low compression engine?
An engine is going to typically show a rich condition if it hasn't been run long enough to burn the plugs clean. When you're serious about reading plugs you actually cut the engine off at speed to give a more accurate reading of what is going on.

Harold

[74MantaRay]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark Like everyone says, sounds like blowby. If you do what people suggest and it still does it, try making/buying/installing a blow by catch tank like racers use in the breather hose.

Thought I will add this so that if any other Rookies like me come accros this Thread know what it looks like and what it's purpose is.
"In a situation such as running in high speed on the race track, a car emits blow-by gas. The blow-by gas contains atomized oil, and that's exactly what this tank cleans out and is effective for preventing the blowback of the pooled oil."
I might realy try this if all else fails

[Gary]

Originally Posted by 74MantaRay ...No vacuum line attached to smaller hole. Will try that this weekend and see if it helps.

Ahh, you may be on to something.. Make sure that you connect the line to the metered port on the vacuum connection below the carb. The metered port is the one that has a very small opening to control the amount of vacuum to the valve cover. If you have access to small drill bits, you can use one to make sure that port is not blocked.

[MICAH1]

Originally Posted by Gary Ahh, you may be on to something.. Make sure that you connect the line to the metered port on the vacuum connection below the carb. The metered port is the one that has a very small opening to control the amount of vacuum to the valve cover .

I have noticed a number of opels with the small opening on the valve covers plugged (mine included). I would think that they both sort of serve the same purpose with the larger blowing gases/fine oil,and the smaller extracting the same by vacuum assist. Would that be correct?? I have not had a problem yet.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by MICAH1 I have noticed a number of opels with the small opening on the valve covers plugged (mine included). I would think that they both sort of serve the same purpose with the larger blowing gases/fine oil,and the smaller extracting the same by vacuum assist. Would that be correct?? I have not had a problem yet.

I was going to cut and paste an explanation, instead I'll include a link explaining the function of Positive Crankcase Ventilation.

Harold

[dcm013]

Originally Posted by MICAH1 I have noticed a number of opels with the small opening on the valve covers plugged (mine included). I would think that they both sort of serve the same purpose with the larger blowing gases/fine oil,and the smaller extracting the same by vacuum assist. Would that be correct?? I have not had a problem yet.

Not exactly. The smaller hose sucks the crankcase vapors into the manifold through a metered orifice to be burned up and the larger one supplies the "make-up" air. It's basically a PCV system without the PCV valve - the metered orifice in the vacuum port takes the place of a PCV valve. Both hoses need to be connected correctly to ensure proper function.

I've seen cars with both valve cover openings plugged, which will result in a pressurized crankcase .

Don

[MICAH1]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr I was going to cut and paste an explanation, instead I'll include a link explaining the function of Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Harold

Thanks Harold for the PCV link, but be assured that I am pulling the gases from the crankcase hose into my cold air intake assembly through the weber throat and out of my exhaust. Would that not be the same at idle or open throttle??

Don,
What is "the Make Up Air"??

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by MICAH1 Thanks Harold for the PCV link, but be assured that I am pulling the gases from the crankcase hose into my cold air intake assembly through the weber throat and out of my exhaust. Would that not be the same at idle or open throttle?? Don, What is "the Make Up Air"??

Well the idle compression will be in the range of 50 psi due to the throttle being closed. No air
With WOT the running compression will jump up into the 150psi range.
I'm not very fond of dumping oil vapors into the intake.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by dcm013 I've seen cars with both valve cover openings plugged, which will result in a pressurized crankcase . Don

That should cost them horsepower and will no doubt cause leaks. I had a student tell me he installed some chrome valve covers on a V8 and since it came with rubber plugs for the valve covers. He decided to plug both valve covers and not use the valve cover breather. He said it worked fine for a little while, until it blew the plug and scared the crap out of him.

Harold

[oldopelguy]

I'll actually be installing a pan-e-vac system on my Kadett on Friday, hopefully, to deal with my own blow-by issues. I'll take pics if anyone wants me to.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy I'll actually be installing a pan-e-vac system on my Kadett on Friday, hopefully, to deal with my own blow-by issues. I'll take pics if anyone wants me to.

That is supposed to actually gain you some horsepower isn't it, above 5 or 6000 rpm?

Harold

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy I'll actually be installing a pan-e-vac system on my Kadett on Friday, hopefully, to deal with my own blow-by issues. I'll take pics if anyone wants me to.

I thought pan-e-vac systems were only recommended for racing vehicles. I had heard, somewhere, that they weren't recommended for daily drivers.

Am I wrong?

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by First opel 1981 I thought pan-e-vac systems were only recommended for racing vehicles. I had heard, somewhere, that they weren't recommended for daily drivers. Am I wrong?

I think high RPM engines are the only ones that really benefit. I don't know if they'd be detrimental to a street engine or not.

Harold

[oldopelguy]

Mostly it just gets the oil mist in the tail pipe instead of the carb, and while it's not so environmentally friendly it shouldn't hurt anything the way I'm doing it.

[74MantaRay]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy I'll actually be installing a pan-e-vac system on my Kadett on Friday, hopefully, to deal with my own blow-by issues. I'll take pics if anyone wants me to.

That will be appreciated.

Harold, thanks for the link it really helped.

[dcm013]

Originally Posted by MICAH1 Thanks Harold for the PCV link, but be assured that I am pulling the gases from the crankcase hose into my cold air intake assembly through the weber throat and out of my exhaust. Would that not be the same at idle or open throttle?? Don, What is "the Make Up Air"??

If all you do is pull air/vapors out, your crankcase will run at a vacuum won't it? At least up to the level of vacuum you're pulling on it through the carb. You've got to let air in if you want to pull vapors out, right?

And do you really want to pull those oily vapors into the nice clean throat of that Weber? They don't exactly just "go out the exhaust" - they're pulled into the manifold to the combustion chambers and burnt, same as when they're pulled into the manifold by the small vacuum hose.

Opel designed the engine with a positive crankcase ventilation system operating as described earlier. Why would you not want to run the system as it was designed?

Don