What should I pay for a header?

[OpelNewb]

I am looking at one and thinking I am going to buy it if the bids don't go too high. I talked to OpelGT Source and they are getting some made up but don't know what the price is going to be.

[BQS4]

Originally Posted by OpelNewb I am looking at one and thinking I am going to buy it if the bids don't go too high. I talked to OpelGT Source and they are getting some made up but don't know what the price is going to be.

The one, or ones that show up on Ebay are "Quick Trip" headers made by a company called Pacesetter, and they were not of the best quality. I had one, had to make several "adjustments" just to get it to fit. Then it cracked on me a couple of times. After that I said no more. I even ended up with a new Pacesetter header in a parts deal, never even used it.
Gil is having some new ones made up by Hedman Headers, so they will be nice. As to the cost, they'll be well worth it.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by BQS4 ...new ones made up by Hedman Headers, so they will be nice. As to the cost, they'll be well worth it.

Don't know about the cost but at least we'll be getting a quality product.

Harold

[opelspyder]

If you have to have something quick, you better buy it as the ones from GT Source are not available yet, and I believe it will be a while
Keith

[OpelNewb]

I am in need of it but don't want to throw money away either. Right now the bids are over 200 for the one on ebay. It seems like alot to pay for something so simple to make. If I knew someone with the ability to make the flange. I could get the rest done without a problem.

[namba209]

IIRC, Gumby is making up flanges as soon as he gets his mill wired up. If not him then someone else on the site is. It's terrible getting old. Anyway, if you have the time and an exhaust gasket you could get the right thickness metal plate and make one yourself. The real problem with that, is making sure that both intake and exhaust manifolds are the same thickness where the bolts attach the two to the head. From what I've heard, the manifolds OGTS is getting made up are gonna be like all headers, a general style that may or may not work, depending on the mods to the engine. Best bet, overall is to get a "Sprint" exhaust manifold, if you can find one.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by namba209 IIRC, Gumby is making up flanges as soon as he gets his mill wired up. If not him then someone else on the site is. It's terrible getting old. Anyway, if you have the time and an exhaust gasket you could get the right thickness metal plate and make one yourself. The real problem with that, is making sure that both intake and exhaust manifolds are the same thickness where the bolts attach the two to the head. From what I've heard, the manifolds OGTS is getting made up are gonna be like all headers, a general style that may or may not work, depending on the mods to the engine. Best bet, overall is to get a "Sprint" exhaust manifold, if you can find one.

You are correct!

The mills been wired for heck almost 3 weeks now. Had to resolve some voltage issues and order a transformer (eerrr it was 280lbs) to get voltage down to where I needed it but that is currently all resolved. The machine does power up and move just fine right now ! What I am waiting on right now is for the "tooling" to arrive. I had to order a nice big face mill and a good vise. I sold everything I previously had with my old mill. Tools should be here by the end of next week and after that it is just programming. The mild steel flanges just need surfaced to the correct thickness, everything else about them is alread done... Realistically two weeks before they ship.

OpelNewb, if you are legitimately interested in a header the pacesetter is probably going to be the cheapest solution. Flanges and metal are going to run you more than $200 for a good stainless header + someone has to weld it together BUT it will be a good header... not a pacesetter. As for the OGTS headers my best guess is that they will be more than $600. Most headers I see for sale (quality stainless steel) run $700-900 and that is for current cars like the solstice.

[Dale .D]

I can vouch for that.It was a struggle to get one from you know who.Paid $285 & had to have a crack welded , machined flush, & busted bolt drilled out & rethreaded after all that I had it nickeled..Very costly.Question though to you guys/gals Who know all this stuff.What would be the advantage or dissadvantge going from a sprint to one of OGTS header.? would it be worth it?

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by Gumby Flanges and metal are going to run you more than $200 for a good stainless header + someone has to weld it together BUT it will be a good header... not a pacesetter. As for the OGTS headers my best guess is that they will be more than $600. Most headers I see for sale (quality stainless steel) run $700-900 and that is for current cars like the solstice.

Is the OGTS header going to be stainless?

Harold

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr Is the OGTS header going to be stainless? Harold

I've no idea. I assumed that since they are having them made by a shop that specializes in headers that they'd at least make them out of 304... Mild steel is a really crappy material to make exhaust pipes out of. The only reason you'd make it out of anything less than 304 would be cost.

[namba209]

IDK for sure, but rumor has it that RallyBob had a hand in the design of the OGTS headers. But don't quote me on that, I sure don't want to spread falsehoods about either the headers or who designed them. One thing for sure though, if OGTS sells them, they will fit without mdoifications, based on their other repo items.

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Dale .D I can vouch for that.It was a struggle to get one from you know who.Paid $285 & had to have a crack welded , machined flush, & busted bolt drilled out & rethreaded after all that I had it nickeled..Very costly.Question though to you guys/gals Who know all this stuff.What would be the advantage or dissadvantge going from a sprint to one of OGTS header.? would it be worth it?

I answer to you question, NO. After several dyno test on a chassis dyno the header's only benifit (when ran through a street legal exhaust system) was above 6000 RPM. If you are going to drive your car over 100 MPH all the time you will benifit from putting a header on it, otherwise it is just for looks compared to a FI cast iron manifold. And for those looks you have to put up with rusting tubes, warped flanges, cracks, leaking gaskets, etc. I have had both and the only benifit was if it was on a open exhaust race car (what they were designed for to start with) IMO

[GTJIM]

There is not much wrong with a standard Opel exhaust manifold - particularly in colder areas of the World where the 'stove' under the carb is a positive advantage!

The standard exhaust manifold has been carefully designed on the 'interference' principle of exhaust pipe tuning - as has the 'Sprint' one. This spreads the tuning effect over a wider rev range than a equal length tube header (designed on the 'independence' principle) which is far more 'peaky' in power delivery. There are several good books on exhaust system design principles and much quasi-scientific information about exhaust tuning.

For everyday street use the standard exhaust manifold with a well designed pair of secondary tubes and a 2" tail pipe with a good flowing muffler will work very well ... and be more durable than a set of separate tube headers, just not so 'sexy' .... or expensive!

Some info on the WWWeb:

http://www.mgparts.co.nz/extractor.html

http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechAr...ry/theory.html

HTH!

PS: The Burns Stainless site is well worth a look with oval ss tubes and transitions available!

[BQS4]

I don't know if everyone read my post correctly, Gil is having the new OGTS headers made by HEDMAN HEADERS, right here in GA, they're still about two months off, according to Gil, but, if I were to buy either the ones on Ebay right now or wait for a HEDMAN HEADER from Gil, I'd definitely would wait. I also have my order in with Gumby for a stainless steel flange, and I also have one of RallyBob's "correct" flanges, so, if just needing a header, just to have a header, then buy the one off Ebay, I'd rather wait...

[OpelNewb]

Well all said on the subject. I will put some ideas out here. I am building the engine up some. 2.0L pistons big valves mild cam and high compression. So I don't want to have a restrictive exhaust system holding me back. I am really interested in having a good header. Also where I live the heater part that is attached to the bottom of the intake really is not needed and in the summer it can cause more issues with the carb itself heating the gas to near boiling. Warps carb flanges etc. In short I would be interested in having one made.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by OpelNewb Well all said on the subject. I will put some ideas out here. I am building the engine up some. 2.0L pistons big valves mild cam and high compression. So I don't want to have a restrictive exhaust system holding me back. I am really interested in having a good header.

Something to keep in mind about a header on an Opel. On a mild engine such as yours (even modified I consider your engine specs very mild), a Sprint manifold and even a stock exhaust manifold flows more than enough air to not restrict the engine one bit. A Sprint manifold works fine on a 175 hp engine even. On a modest 110 +/- hp 2.0 engine such as yours, there's no huge gain to be made from an aftermarket header. If you make a custom header with large tubes, you'll gain peak flow, but at the expense of a loss of low end torque. So it'll be slower in day to day driving. Big tubes are for high rpms. With a small cam, it's not the way to go. And really the cam and headwork determine the powerband and therefore what the header specs should be.

The only real reason to build a custom header on a milder engine IMO is to tune the powerband. A small tube header with long runners may not make any more HP than a Sprint manifold, but it can make a bunch more useable torque and have better response and economy, as well as having more correct readings on the spark plugs.

And just FYI, by 'small tube' I'm talking 1 3/8" primary tubes, with lengths MUCH longer than any aftermarket headers...about 38-40". No reason to build a header with short tubes on a street car, unless you're revving (and making power) at 8000 + rpms, it's a waste.

Bob

[OpelNewb]

Thanks for your input on this subject. I need for more than the performance gain that i might or might not get. Due to extreme rusting and deformation my stock manifold is ruined. That being said where could i aquire a sprint manifold? Any and all suggestions are welcomed. I had hoped to get this thing running again by Xmas but it looks unlikely.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by OpelNewb Thanks for your input on this subject. I need for more than the performance gain that i might or might not get. Due to extreme rusting and deformation my stock manifold is ruined. That being said where could i aquire a sprint manifold? Any and all suggestions are welcomed. I had hoped to get this thing running again by Xmas but it looks unlikely.

I *might* have a Sprint manifold available shortly. Just came off a running car, NO broken bolts!

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by OpelNewb Thanks for your input on this subject. I need for more than the performance gain that i might or might not get. Due to extreme rusting and deformation my stock manifold is ruined. That being said where could i aquire a sprint manifold? Any and all suggestions are welcomed. I had hoped to get this thing running again by Xmas but it looks unlikely.

OGTS aldo sells 2.0L manifolds too. I am using one at this time for my 2.4L. The tubes are larger and it looks stock. It is also quieter in the cabin because it is cast iron. Headers are much louder with their thinner tube walls.

I believe it only cost me about $125 which includes the manifold and the down pipe.

[OpelNewb]

Keep me posted on the sprint header RallyBob. Thanks Also for the info on the 2.0 manifold OpelWasp