confirming timing info

[demerson]

New here and to Opels .... wasn't sure how to search for this .... so here it goes.... 1974 Manta 1.9 4 spd .... I assume the cylinders are as follows :......
1 2 3 4 from the front of the engine to the back.
I was looking at the "TuneUpPart1bJune2006.pdf and it shows a distributor cap with the wires leaving it as such : 4 2 of course the coil wire is in the center
3 1
and the same pdf file says that the firing order is 1-3-4-2
.... I am ok with all of that ... however looking at my distributor cap the wires are set up as follows 1 3
2 4 so the firing order is still the same I guess ...
When I switched the wires the match what was shown in the document it wouldn't start(had to try it) ... btw the car ran ok just needs a tune...vacuum leak somewhere and timing(which is how this all started)
so whats the deal with my wires being different than that.
Does it have something to do with the difficulty that I seem to be having timing this car.(or is it a vacume thing)
I just need to get it timed so I can go on from there and get it running right.

Oh yeh the solex is still on it .. and i'm stuck with that for a while because of the whole money thing.
any help would be and is greatly appreciated .
Thanks in advance
Dan

[Anonymous D]

Reminder: The firing order is 1-3-4-2, and the rotor turns clockwise within the distributor.

In some cases a mechanic forgets to turn the crankshaft one full turn (360 degrees) following engine reassembly but prior to re-installing a distributor, and when this is the case the wire locations on the distributor cap will appear to be reversed 180 degrees (#1 will be in the #4 location, #3 will be in the #2 location, #4 will be in the #1 location, and #2 will be in the #3 location).

This can also be affected by the setting of timing advance or retard (of the distributor).

[krewzer]

firing order is 1 3 4 2. Number one on the distributor is at 4 o'clock. the firing order is clockwise on the distributor. sounds like your 4 and 2 wires are reversed.

[hrcollinsjr]

IF the distributor was put in properly you should be able to wire the distributor correctly. Clockwise and 1-3-4-2 as has been mentioned several times already. Remove the distributor cap, locate the notch in the top edge/rim of the distributor housing. Near that is a straight line. The is where No. 1 is SUPPOSED to be! You can verify this by rotating the engine with the No. 1 plug out and your finger sealing off the spark plug hole. Just as it blows you finger off of the hole you will be at or near top dead center (TDC) depending on how good you are. You can double check by looking to see if the timing ball in the flywheel is lined up with the pointer in the block. The flywheel pointer is located in a small opening on the passenger side where the bellhousing bolts to the block.
If it is 180 degrees out, I believe Anon D has already made an attempt to explain how this happens. Reread his post. If it is 180 out just rewire it.

Harold

[timemachine]

You might want to spend a little bit of time with the Solex before you swap it out. The Weber is more simple in construction and everybody has gone for "reliable" but you might want to give the original a shot or a rebuild. Most will swear otherwise, and probably rightly so, but my Solex is no doorstop, it's a runner.

Jim

[demerson]

Heres the deal ..... firing order was fine ..... however when the #1 cylinder was at TDC the rotor was at the 11oclock position and not at the 4oclock position so no big deal ....I left it like that and adjusted it a little bit....manually turned the engine until the little ball and post lined up .... spun the distributor a little bit and got the number one post right on and tightened it down.....fired right up and idled good though when I checked the ball/post thing with a timing light the "ball" was below the post ... but all was running well.....I left it as it was for now .... didn't wanna stay outside with the lightning and hail coming down!
anyways thanks again for the help.

[demerson]

I searched and did find some of(most of) the info. I needed but I just wanted to simplify it all for myself.....
Do i have this right ....
1.I know that the firing order is 1 3 4 2

2.I know that the "factory" position for the #1cylinder plug wire is at the 4oclock position.

3.I THINK I know that when cylinder #1 is @ TDC so is #4(right?)

4.When #1 and#4 are at TDC where should the "dot" on the cam gear be?

5. With #1 and #4 at TDC and the "pin and ball" at the flywheel all lined up , the distributor all lined up with the rotor pointing to the #1 "post" on the cap....and the "dot" in the correct position on the cam gear ....with all of that the car should be timed as close to true as possible correct?

wow I sure seem to ask long winded questions ....

[demerson]

my number 1 wire is in the 11oclock position and #4 in the 4oclock position which I know is wrong but the car runs pretty good....thats why I need to know what the deal is

[First opel 1981]

1.I know that the firing order is 1 3 4 2
~Correct

2.I know that the "factory" position for the #1 cylinder plug wire is at the 4oclock position.
~Factory, yes. Can it work if it isn't, yes as long as the system is timed accordingly to offset the difference. No change would be needed with regards to the cam/crank timing but the distro and plug wires would need correcting.

3.I THINK I know that when cylinder #1 is @ TDC so is #4(right?)
~1 and 4 are on the same throw. When 1 is at the top, so is 4.

4.When #1 and#4 are at TDC where should the "dot" on the cam gear be?
~The dot is supposed to line up with the plate bolted onto the front of the block right below where the block and head meet. A really inconvenient place for it. You can also line it up by running a line straight up along the woodfuff keyways on the cam and crank. I use both to make sure I have it correct.

5. With #1 and #4 at TDC and the "pin and ball" at the flywheel all lined up , the distributor all lined up with the rotor pointing to the #1 "post" on the cap....and the "dot" in the correct position on the cam gear ....with all of that the car should be timed as close to true as possible correct?
~HUH? Not exactly. With one and 4 "close" to TDC, the ball will line up with the pointer on the block. The cam dot will be a little off at that point. BUT, you will need to find out what stroke the cam is on to determine whether you are lined up with the firing of 1 or 4. Then you position the spark plug wires accordingly on the distributor cap. You line up the pin and ball separate from the cam/crank timing. They are related but not connected.

The engine will run "ok" with the timing off one tooth. I have found that the engines seem to run a little better in some ways if the cam is advanced a tooth but it burned my exhaust manifold when I did it. If the cam is retarded a tooth the engine will be a little weak. It will run but the performance is a little depressing.

Hope that helps.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by demerson my number 1 wire is in the 11oclock position and #4 in the 4oclock position with I know is wrong but the car runs pretty good....thats why I need to know what the deal is

When most engines are assembled with all of the timing marks lined up the engine is on top dead center compression stroke on #1 cyl., but not the Opel CIH engine it is on the exhaust stroke. Your situation commonly occurs when someone unfamiliar with our Opel engines assemblies them. They discover that the timing is 180 deg. off so the easiest thing to do is to change the wires instead of removing the fuel pump and correctly installing the distributor. They're probably throughly confused as to why, when they lined up all of the timing marks they were that far off.

HTH,
Harold

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by First opel 1981 The engine will run "ok" with the timing off one tooth. I have found that the engines seem to run a little better in some ways if the cam is advanced a tooth but it burned my exhaust manifold when I did it. If the cam is retarded a tooth the engine will be a little weak. It will run but the performance is a little depressing.

Yep, it'll run half way decent IF you never run it past 3000 rpm. It just flattens out and flutters past that!

Harold

[blancojp]

I have read this complete post and lots of info was put out however a simple way of solving the problem was not.

First of all, as long as the vacuum can is not in the way of something, it does not really matter where the distributor is at. You set the corresponding position of the #1 cylinder and go from there.

Second, you can easily check when cyl #1 is at top dead center by unbolting the front cam cover and seeing the position of the cam guide. Up is #4, down is #1 and you really don't need to be that critical on this step.

By now you know where the #1 cylinder is located on the distributor, put your wiring accordingly and fire the engine to get your final adjustments done. Yes it is nice for your engine to look like it did when it came from factory but in reality, nothing is lost if #1 resides somewhere else.

This would be the 50 cent way of getting your car running fast.

[kwilford]

The posts relating to the copyright protection of the OMC diagram has been moved to:
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