Constant Clutch Cable Adjustment..

[GoinManta]

My sons Manta has had this problem now for two years.

We can adjust the clutch cable and everything works well.. then slowly over the period of a week or so the clutch tightens up and we have to readjust the cable.

Replaced the clutch cable (At first it worked.. then no difference it started again)

We have replaced the clutch and pressure plate. Be it used but they were low mileage parts from a running car that I stripped (which didnt have a problem). It cleared the problem for about 2 weeks and then it started again...

Noticed the last time that the firewall was flexing (My son had been pushing on the clutch so hard he busted the patched firewall and battery box.. ) So patched that and put a brace on the master cylinder.. Again seemed to have "fixed" the problem.. for it to appear again another 3 weeks later.

Any ideas? Bad clutch arm maybe? Really driving me nuts.. When I pulled the clutch cable last time it didnt look bad.. but replaced it anyway for the same thing to happen.. So I dont think it could be a stretched cable..

Charles

[BQS4]

I have to ask, but, are you sure you're locking the adjusting shaft on the clutch pack? It's such a simple system.

Originally Posted by GoinManta My sons Manta has had this problem now for two years. We can adjust the clutch cable and everything works well.. then slowly over the period of a week or so the clutch tightens up and we have to readjust the cable. Replaced the clutch cable (At first it worked.. then no difference it started again) We have replaced the clutch and pressure plate. Be it used but they were low mileage parts from a running car that I stripped (which didnt have a problem). It cleared the problem for about 2 weeks and then it started again... Noticed the last time that the firewall was flexing (My son had been pushing on the clutch so hard he busted the patched firewall and battery box.. ) So patched that and put a brace on the master cylinder.. Again seemed to have "fixed" the problem.. for it to appear again another 3 weeks later. Any ideas? Bad clutch arm maybe? Really driving me nuts.. When I pulled the clutch cable last time it didnt look bad.. but replaced it anyway for the same thing to happen.. So I dont think it could be a stretched cable.. Charles

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by GoinManta My sons Manta has had this problem now for two years. We can adjust the clutch cable and everything works well.. then slowly over the period of a week or so the clutch tightens up and we have to readjust the cable. Replaced the clutch cable (At first it worked.. then no difference it started again) We have replaced the clutch and pressure plate. Be it used but they were low mileage parts from a running car that I stripped (which didnt have a problem). It cleared the problem for about 2 weeks and then it started again... Noticed the last time that the firewall was flexing (My son had been pushing on the clutch so hard he busted the patched firewall and battery box.. ) So patched that and put a brace on the master cylinder.. Again seemed to have "fixed" the problem.. for it to appear again another 3 weeks later. Any ideas? Bad clutch arm maybe? Really driving me nuts.. When I pulled the clutch cable last time it didnt look bad.. but replaced it anyway for the same thing to happen.. So I dont think it could be a stretched cable.. Charles

Your son is not "riding" the clutch is he (driving with his foot resting on the clutch pedal) Like the pervious post you may want to check the adjustment stud on the bell housing and make sure that the lock nut is good and tight. I have even double nutted it to make sure it doesn't move or loosen up.

[GoinManta]

Well I have checked the nut adjustment before.. and it hadnt moved. at least at that time..

I had also thought the "riding" the clutch would have been it.. but when we replaced the clutch.. it wasn't as near as worn as we thought it would have been.

Once it starts again.. sometimes it needs adjusting within a day of adjusting.. so while it maybe part of the problem I think I may have found it or at least a cause.

It MAY be the clutch pedal assembly and firewall mounting... as just after I posted this.. a piece broke from the firewall. If memory serves me and its been a while since I have seen the assembly with the dash out.. the piece looked like part of the assembly where it bolted to the firewall..

Anyone have pictures and possibly a spare assembly and/or firewall section.. I am thinking I may have to remove some of the firewall and repatch it again.. but this time a larger section with a new clutch pedal assembly, etc.. and then replace everything from the pilot bearing, to the pressure plate. No matter how good they look.

I figure if I patch the firewall and replace everything from the pedal assembly to the clutch and cable. It HAS to quit doing it. Also anyone have a good condition tramssion arm for the transmission too>

Charles

[tomking]

What transmission arm are you referring to Chas? Do you mean the shifter? or one of the tranny linkages? I have the linkages, but may not have a good tranny shifter arm that I can part with.
Tony Parker might have the firewall section from a 69 kadett rallye. Whoops this is a Manta. Sorry. Hey he might have a manta firewall section too.

[OpelNewb]

I had a similar issue with a pickup truck once. I had patch the metal where the cable came thru but it just wasn't enough to keep the metal from actualy streching out around the patch. What gauge sheet metal did you use to patch it up? Have you also gotten him in the car and had him push the pedal and watch the firewall. I am sure you know that even a small amount of movement in the firewall equates to a huge difference down at the clutch.

If you have no movement in the firewall and all the linkage is in good shape I would suspect the pressure plate. Possibly having cracks in it or even the flywheel having cracks as well. Also take a very close look at the clutch fork and where it pivots on the mount. I have seen those crack as well.

[hrcollinsjr]

Lost my first reply, DIALUP and Hoover vacuum cleaners have a lot in common.

Charles, did you replace the cable with a used cable? If the outside sheath is crumbling sometimes it's not that noticeable. The cable will appear to be getting longer. If the sheath is collapsing you can cut into the vinyl covering where you see a bulge and rust will usually come out.

HTH,
Harold

[Tru-Craft]

I agree with the firewall patch pushing away. It would only have to move a 1/16-1/8" to mess up adjustment.
The clutch peddle has a lot of leverage, I would use a 3/32" -1/8 sheet steel to replace the patch. Make it large enough to get an overlap of at least an inch of good old sheet metal.
Maybe sandwich from both sides, bolt and weld in place?
Lyle

[Gary]

Originally Posted by GoinManta ....(My son had been pushing on the clutch so hard he busted the patched firewall and battery box.. ) So patched that and put a brace on the master cylinder.. Again seemed to have "fixed" the problem.. for it to appear again another 3 weeks later.

Quick fix would be to move the seat back and lock it so Ben's foot doesn't go through the firewall.

He has grown a lot in the past two years.

[GoinManta]

I am in agreement I am thinking it is definately the the firewall.. it was a mess when I patched it the first time and with what looks to be parts of the brace for the footpedal falling off into the floor board that can't be good.

When he pushed on the pedal the firewall moved (like its not supposed too) but its not doing that much now that I put a brace on the firewall.

As for backing up the seat.. its against the back seat now so no room there.. Speaking for growing like a weed, David who came with me to Charlotte this years is now 5'-11" and he is still 13.

So anyone have the firewall section of a Manta I could get? Along with the foot pedals controls ?

If the weather gets warm enough and dry enough I can pull the GTO out of the garage the Manta will get its dash taken out so I can look over the wiring, and firwall patches, etc..

As for the questions about Cable, etc..

The Cable is new, the clutch is only slightly used and came off a running (yet highly rusted car) that was crapped a few years ago. Since this problem occurred with the old cable and old clutch setup I have to think it is something like the cltuch arm in the bellhousing OR the Firewall.. and right now I am going with the firewall.

Charles

[OpelNewb]

I had mentioned the clutch fork or arm or whatever the service manual calls it before. I have seen that be the issue time and time again on other vehicles. Most have some sort of ball socket on them and eventually the socket in the arm wears out and the metal becomes thin, it developes stress cracks and so on. I don't know alot about the Manta and it's exact setup (other than I would like to buy a Manta) If it is similar to the GT then it deserves a good inspection. Make sure all the springs and the clip that hold it on the ball is in place as well. HTH

[GoinManta]

I am thinking it is definItely in the foot pedals.. His pedal finally went dead and the cable came off... Possibly the "hook" broke. I havent pulled it apart yet to find out. If anyone has a good footpedal assembly for a Manta I would love to talk to you.

Charles

[Killer Texas GT]

Originally Posted by GoinManta I am thinking it is definately in the foot pedals.. His pedal finally went dead and the cable came off... Possibly the "hook" broke. I havent pulled it apart yet to find out. If anyone has a good footpedal assembly for a Manta I would love to talk to you. Charles

Hi Charles,

I just happen to have three hanging on the peg board in the shop. My shop is so full of parts that I can't work in it any more (ask OTTO). And I am sure I could pull another three or four off some cars in the back. Send me a PM for price.

[GoinManta]

Think this was the problem?

Has anyone ever seen metal fatique like this? Admittedly it took a year of constantly adjusting the clutch petal slowly pulling on the hook. Apparently it was very fatiqued when we did the new clutch.. with the new strength of the clutch.... well thats a guess.

But it didnt show that it was that far out of shape when we put it on the last time.. So its anybodies guess. All I know is my son definately needs a new clutch arm minimum.

Charles

[BQS4]

Originally Posted by GoinManta All I know is my son definately needs a new clutch arm minimum. Charles

You think?

[GoinManta]

For referenece it should look like this.. I am just amazed that the end of the hook didnt break off.. Has anyone ever seen this happen?

[GoinManta]

Found a spare in the garage and installed it.. And it lasted 3 days.

UGH !!!! Pulling down the transmission, and checking the transmission control arm, etc.. to see if I can find anything else that is worn.

Going to pull the dash and check the pedal assembly, and hopefully find what the heck is going on..

Part of me wants to say it my sons big leg.. and novice driving skills.. But until I replace everything.. its just a guess.. if I fix everything and it works well again.. and it does it again.. then its ther perverbal loose nut behind the steering wheel syndrome.

Charles

[Gary]

Thinking about this a bit... Evidently something is binding in the clutch mechanism after the pedal assembly. The weak link is the cable hook and Ben is just overpowered it 'till it bent again. My guess is it's something with the clutch arm pivot.

[baz]

Charles

cant be the big nut behind the wheel syndrome if you think about it , it only moves down to the carpet and back
what could he possibly be doing extra to that ? unless theres a fault in the clutch

i am not trying to upset just help but !!
could you have the friction plate in the wrong way round ( even if it was put in the same way as the last plate it could still be the wrong way round from before )
this would make the pressure plate and friction plate bind making it lock the cable out and the extra force to release the clutch could be doing what you describe


just a thought

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Found a spare in the garage and installed it.. And it lasted 3 days.

You should be able to lean over and push the clutch pedal to the floor by hand. If not...there's an issue.

My initial question is whether you have the proper 4.25" adjustment at the clutch arm? Simply compensating for the clutch arm adjustment by adjusting the cable is NOT the correct way to do it, and in fact the change in leverage at the arm can be enormous if it's off by as little as 1/4".

I drove a Manta once that had such horrendous pedal pressure it snapped cables regularly. Turned out that in 140k of driving the owner had only adjusted the pedal height via the firewall/cable adjustment, and NOT by the clutch pivot. A simple adjustement at the bellhousing cured the high pedal effort.

Just a thought.
Bob

[driftmagic1]

something like that happend to me on my gt but it was the throttle instead of the clutch but luckily i didnt have a rust or rotted firewall and was able you put a couple tack welds on it

[BQS4]

I'm wondering if he has the correct length cable? Too short a cable would cause too much pressure at either end, and either the cable would break, or either end would pull through.

[GoinManta]

Update:

OK.. Here is what we know..

Clutch Fork looked OK.. so we had to assume it was OK.
(Still getting a new one)

Clutch Disc was in right..

Throw Out bearing Looked good..

Repaired pedal.. ( A little welding a little filing.. a little drilling, and viola.. )

Adjusted clutch

Put it back together with the new transmission..

Cable and throw seemed stiff.. not hard.. just stiff.. But it went into gear and ran good. Worked for a day..

This time though the work to the firewall held, and so did the pedal.. the travel distance of the pedal DIDNT move this time.. But the clutch wouldnt activate at the floor. Even though the cable would move and you could feel it.

Called Gil.. and he may have hit on the problem. The sleeve in the bell housing that the throw out bearing rides on can get distorted and scarred. I never gave it that much attention.. so I cant say how it looked. He said you can put the bearing on and its hard to notice its worn. Because there isnt any pressure on it. When it goes together the bearing will bind up and not slide smoothly. Thus causing a stiff clutch with variable actuation.. so it MAYBE it..

Normal people would have the transmission checked due to the stiff clutch. Ben is larger than me and a novice driver so he didnt notice.. the extra resistance.. (he can leg press something like 300-400lbs so he says).

So the thought is this... Throw out bearing binds.. Son throws foot into it.. pedal breaks. Or the firewall gives.. This time though due to the repairs.... the bearing has seized causing no release of the clutch, but everythig else held its ground.

So... I am getting a new sleeve, throw out bearing, clutch disc (might as well since I am there.. again... ), new clutch cable, and new pedal and clutch fork.. effectively replacing everything that moves in the system.

If it does it again, it will have to be the firewall or clutch adjustment. BUt I have adjusted a ton of Opel clutches over the years. and can not imagine that would be the problem. Especailly since we have adjusted the clutch numerous times and it has had no effect on the condition.

So one more weekend under the car and it should finally be fixed..

Charles

[BQS4]

Charles;
I always check to see if the TOB will slide on the sleeve/tube, every time a I do a clutch. I also rub a THIN layer of wheel bearing grease on the sleeve/tube as an added measure.

[GoinManta]

I havent done the grease (will this time), I check ed it quckly to see if it slid well.. and it seemed to.. but since I never had a problem I didnt even think of looking at it very much. Be sure I will this weekend.

Charles