Double clutching into 3rd Gear

[lkyrog]

OK....
On the way home from the Deutche Classic Yesterday I noticed that to shift into 3rd Gear (& only 3rd gear) I needed to double clutch (going up from 2nd & down from 4th) or I would have some gear grind

This was happening every now and then for the past year....I wrote it off thinking I just wasn't depressing the clutch pedal enough....but now it happens every time.(thank goodness I remembered how to double clutch)

I've searches the forums for this symptom to no avail.

anyone have this happen before?

Before I get too involved I always rely on the experts on the forum

Thanks!

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by lkyrog OK.... On the way home from the Deutche Classic Yesterday I noticed that to shift into 3rd Gear (& only 3rd gear) I needed to double clutch (going up from 2nd & down from 4th) or I would have some gear grind This was happening every now and then for the past year....I wrote it off thinking I just wasn't depressing the clutch pedal enough....but now it happens every time.(thank goodness I remembered how to double clutch) I've searches the forums for this symptom to no avail. anyone have this happen before? Before I get too involved I always rely on the experts on the forum Thanks!

If your clutch is adjusted properly (and it sounds like it is, or it would be doing it in all gears) it is most likely the Syncro. You have brass syncro rings, springs and shifting "shoes" on the syncro, if any of those have a lot of wear you will get this problem. Also a tip to save trouble, DO NOT ride in fourth with you hand on the shifter because it will cause wear from the pressure against the gear and round off the teeth on the gear and then it will jump out of gear when you let off the gas.

[Paul]

I have found that Redline MT-90 and MTL really helps to lessen this worn syncro symptom.

[opelwasp]

Actually a Getrag will ultimately fix the problem. Sounds like it's time.

[lkyrog]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 If your clutch is adjusted properly (and it sounds like it is, or it would be doing it in all gears) it is most likely the Syncro. You have brass syncro rings, springs and shifting "shoes" on the syncro, if any of those have a lot of wear you will get this problem. Also a tip to save trouble, DO NOT ride in fourth with you hand on the shifter because it will cause wear from the pressure against the gear and round off the teeth on the gear and then it will jump out of gear when you let off the gas.

So if I order a synchro from ogts that should do the trick? while i have the tranny dropped is there anything else i should change that is relatively inexpensive/easy to do?(figure i'd ask now to avoid the "duh" feeling later)

[lkyrog]

Originally Posted by opelwasp Actually a Getrag will ultimately fix the problem. Sounds like it's time.

would be nice....I have the same financial planner that a lot of guys have tho.....and she might not feel the same as I do about it

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by lkyrog So if I order a synchro from ogts that should do the trick? while i have the tranny dropped is there anything else i should change that is relatively inexpensive/easy to do?(figure i'd ask now to avoid the "duh" feeling later)

If you are going to tear it down, might as well get and overhaul kit which includes everything to rebuild all the syncro's and has new seals, gaskets and the needle bearings for the cluster gear.

[lkyrog]

I think I might just milk (double shift) it out until I save up for a getrag 5 speed....after looking at what it will take to rebuild the transmission I have...opelwasp is right

It's not a daily driver....warm sunny days only, so not an emergency....

I have limited room to do the work (single car garage).
Has anyone bought the "ready to go" getrag kit from ogts?
If so how easy (or hard) was the install?

[baz]

quick fix read around and find some one doing the getrag fix for non brake down reasons and ask what they are doing with the old horrid no one wants boat anchor they have left

[lkyrog]

Good idea baz
will do!

[GTJIM]

Far better to get a usable 2nd-hand gearbox than try to 'fix' one that has worn as badly as yours - the syncro ring will be toast; the engagement dogs on 3rd gear and the syncro slider will be battered beyond repair ... and probably all the bearing surfaces pitted where the needle rollers run.

[lkyrog]

Yeah....I do believe you are right GTJIM.

OK.....Who has a 4 speed out there in good condition???

[Mike Preble]

Unfortunately You are across the country from me and this makes shipping prohibitive. I have ~5 good transmissions(haven't looked lately). Sorry but there have to be plenty of people in your neck of the woods with a spare.

Mike

[BQS4]

Originally Posted by lkyrog Yeah....I do believe you are right GTJIM. OK.....Who has a 4 speed out there in good condition???

Roger;
If no one offers up, I have a couple of good 4-spds, and can ship reasonably by UPS Ground. Sent a 5-spd from GA to CA for $42, sent another 5-spd from GA to Raleigh, NC for $37 (remember Mike?) so, let me know, basically you can have the 4-spd for shipping if no one else is close by.
Gene

[lkyrog]

Thanks Gene! I think I will take you up on the offer

Let me know what shipping is to zip code 17011 (Camp Hill PA)
And I will get you the money....make sure to add handling charges aslo

There is no hurry though, I probably won't get to it for a few months anyway.

Is there any items I should order from OGTS while I'm working in that area?

Thanks again!
Roger

[BQS4]

Originally Posted by lkyrog Thanks Gene! I think I will take you up on the offer Let me know what shipping is to zip code 17011 (Camp Hill PA) And I will get you the money....make sure to add handling charges aslo There is no hurry though, I probably won't get to it for a few months anyway. Is there any items I should order from OGTS while I'm working in that area? Thanks again! Roger

Handling charges!?!? you mean you're going to pay for me to wash my greasy hands!?!? Seriously Roger, I have at least 3 lying around and all I'm doing is tripping over them. As for the shipping charges, I won't know that till the "package" is actually run through the meter, and I'm the one running the meter! It shouldn't be over $50, but, probably not less than $40. Do you need the bell housing? If not, that'll shave a little weight off and make it a smaller package. To mate it to your bellhousing, you'll need a gasket, which I can provide. The only thing I can think of that you'd need from OGTS would be a new clutch, unless it was already recently replaced. I'll also need your full address, but, PM that to me.
Gene

[opelgtguy]

Originally Posted by BQS4 Handling charges!?!? you mean you're going to pay for me to wash my greasy hands!?!? Gene

Hey Gene:
You mean you wash your hands ?
Rick

[BQS4]

Originally Posted by opelgtguy Hey Gene: You mean you wash your hands ? Rick

Watch it Big Guy!

[lkyrog]

Thanks Gene....PM on the way!

[jvandyke]

What is double clutching exactly? What does clutching twice accomplish?

[namba209]

Double clutching is push in the clutch, put the gearshift lever in neutral, push in the clutch, release it, then go to the next gear, either up or down. It allows the tranny gearset to reach engine RPM and eases meshing the gears. A common practice in 18 wheelers way back when that didn't have synchros. Oh yeah, you'd rev up the engine a bit, when in neutral with the clutch pedal out.

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by namba209 Double clutching is push in the clutch, put the gearshift lever in neutral, push in the clutch, release it, then go to the next gear, either up or down. It allows the tranny gearset to reach engine RPM and eases meshing the gears. A common practice in 18 wheelers way back when that didn't have synchros. Oh yeah, you'd rev up the engine a bit, when in neutral with the clutch pedal out.

Or is it clutch, to go neutral, clutch, release, clutch go to next gear? Or do you really go your next gear without clutching? Obviously I don't understand the inner workings of tranny's to know how double clutching would help but I believe you! I always envisioned the clutch as seperating the engine power from the tranny but it isn't quite that simple apparently.

[Paul]

To state it differently...
Depress clutch pedal
Shift into neutral
release clutch pedal allow rpms of engine to drop (a bit) to match rpms of next gear
Depress clutch and shift into next gear.

This was for an up-shift, say 2nd to 3rd
For a down-shift the rpms go up to match next gear...

[namba209]

Paul's got it right, I had a senior moment in my description. One thing, during the operation, the gear shift lever is placed to the desired gear position and when the RPM of that gearset matches, the lever will go the rest of the way.

[Paul]

I sounds like it would be slow to accomplish, but its like pumping the clutch pedal twice... but in the process the shift lever is moved into the neutral position as the clutch is released between the 2 pumps.

If the synco is bad and a person is real slow on the shift (of the standard variety) to prevent grinding... a double clutch is usually quicker to complete...