Weber 40 DFO/DFI parts

[Petri H]

I am a new member from Europe and it has been really exciting to read all the threads about these Sprint carbs.

Earlier this year I made a decision to upgrade my Kadett Rallye to Sprint specs and bought all the gears needed for that. There are not too many loose sets available in Finland, but I managed to get one of them. As you may imagine, the 40 year old carbs were extremely far away from ok and forced me to go through a major rebuild exercise. The Rekord Sprint WHB -pdf found from this site has been a big help to me.

Now finding parts to these rare animals has been far tougher than expected. Found something from the Weber U.K., some bits from Pierce Manifolds and surprisingly lot from Finland (like gaskets and jets). Germany has been a big disappointment in these terms.

The only remaining critical part left is one throttle shaft which has the toothed sector firmly attached. The teeth are completely worn out and it would be impossible to get that carb working properly or synchronised w/o a new shaft & sector replacement.

Does any of you have NOS parts either DFI or DFO (both should have the same) or could you advise me where I could continue my search. The above mentioned companies could not help me with this part.

Thanks for helping the rookie out...

[Gary]

You could try to contact Gabriele in Italy. His contact info should be in his eBay store: eBay Store - ALFA1750'S CARBURETORS PARTS STORE: carburetor parts: SOLEX PHH PII AIR CORRECTOR JETS-NEW, SOLEX CARBURETORS MAIN JETS

or Top End Performance

Or one of our members: bigjim5551212

Hope this helps.

[opelspyder]

This is a round about way of getting what you want, but I have a completely rebuilt set of DFOs on Ebay US right now. I had these build with full NOS Weber kits, which mean they had the throttle shafts and all. It is the set pictured on this site under the "Kadett LS Sprint" thread. Also it comes with an NOS thermostat housing and the linkage and such. I might part this out, but it would be cheaper to purchase the entire thing. I may know of one more kit out there like I had used.
Keith

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Petri H I am a new member from Europe and it has been really exciting to read all the threads about these Sprint carbs. Earlier this year I made a decision to upgrade my Kadett Rallye to Sprint specs and bought all the gears needed for that. There are not too many loose sets available in Finland, but I managed to get one of them. As you may imagine, the 40 year old carbs were extremely far away from ok and forced me to go through a major rebuild exercise. The Rekord Sprint WHB -pdf found from this site has been a big help to me. Now finding parts to these rare animals has been far tougher than expected. Found something from the Weber U.K., some bits from Pierce Manifolds and surprisingly lot from Finland (like gaskets and jets). Germany has been a big disappointment in these terms. The only remaining critical part left is one throttle shaft which has the toothed sector firmly attached. The teeth are completely worn out and it would be impossible to get that carb working properly or synchronised w/o a new shaft & sector replacement. Does any of you have NOS parts either DFI or DFO (both should have the same) or could you advise me where I could continue my search. The above mentioned companies could not help me with this part. Thanks for helping the rookie out...

. . . try looking for a segment/shaft from 38DGAS or 40DFAV, a bit easier to find and have the same shaft size/spacing . . . i.e. gear sizes. Tried Gabrielle several years ago, with no luck, when I was designing linkage to adapt my sprint to my '69 Kadett . . . maybe now. I ended up fabricating a lot of things simply because I couldn't find originals ANYWHERE!!

[Petri H]

Thanks for all the tips.

As a matter of fact the fabrication is what I plan to do next if my hunting proves to be unsuccessful. I have managed to find a NOS tooth sector which I believe is for 40 DCZ. The teeth dimensions and such are the same, but the piece needs some metal work to make it identical to DFO sector.

I am just little hesitant to jump into this. Have no idea how the old tooth sector can be safely removed from the shaft. The other thing which worries me is how an earth I manage to attach the new sector to exactly right position and angle in the shaft. Failing there would mean uneven throttle flap positioning and further problems.

I will contact Gabrielle just in case he might possess something useful...

[bigjim5551212]

40 DFI Carbs are from Ferrari's by the way. They are not the same as a DGAS for the spacing of the barrels, even though the mounting is the same. The DFI has no power valve, so you have to jet them very rich.

[Petri H]

I have restored the factory jetting to these 40 DFOs. The engine is std. 2.0E with hydraulic cam, hydraulic lifters and 9.4 compression (ref. 1.9H 9.5 compression). Since the original air cleaner is more than hard to find, I plan to install aftermarket dry filters instead.

Those of you who run 2x40 DFOs, what kind of jetting pattern you have?

Some local carb experts have said that the modern fuel is so much different than 60's fuel, that at least the factory idle jets are too small. Any experiences?

I have also replaced the carb linkage by a cable. It is stated several times that the original linkage design is a major cause for the rapidly wearing tooth sectors. Hope I can avoid this better now. Secondly, cable offers good adjustability and simplier linkage design.

[opelspyder]

Whats so hard about finding a DFO air cleaner? I have one sitting around in the garage
Keith

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Petri H I have restored the factory jetting to these 40 DFOs. The engine is std. 2.0E with hydraulic cam, hydraulic lifters and 9.4 compression (ref. 1.9H 9.5 compression). Since the original air cleaner is more than hard to find, I plan to install aftermarket dry filters instead. Those of you who run 2x40 DFOs, what kind of jetting pattern you have? Some local carb experts have said that the modern fuel is so much different than 60's fuel, that at least the factory idle jets are too small. Any experiences? I have also replaced the carb linkage by a cable. It is stated several times that the original linkage design is a major cause for the rapidly wearing tooth sectors. Hope I can avoid this better now. Secondly, cable offers good adjustability and simpler linkage design.

. . . I've just completed my Kadett sprint installation here and my documented thread might be worth a look for ideas.

I wanted to stay as close to "original" as possible with this installation, using as many "stock" pieces as possible from the '69 Kadett and the sprint setup. Here's my linkage solution from that thread . . .



. . . and another photo showing it actually installed in my Kadett later in that thread . . .



As luck would have it, my good friend, Uwe in Germany, just sent me the best original Rekord sprint DFO installation link I have yet seen and covers all aspects, both pluses and minuses.

This German link includes a link to the Swedish Misab Weber carbs jetting HTML with a table for all different carb types used on most European cars . . . great starting point for any Weber combination on almost any capacity engine!

[stalle]

Hi !

"This German link includes a link to the Finnish Misab Weber carbs jetting HTML with a table for all different carb types used on most European cars . . . great starting point for any Weber combination on almost any capacity engine! "

Just a little reminder..... that Finnish site is in fact Swedish..

But you would not notice any difference do you ?

btw...
Here is a picture of mine 40 DFO webers.

I was lucky to find a NOS rebuilding kit from weber !

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by stalle Hi ! "This German link includes a link to the Swedish Misab Weber carbs jetting HTML with a table for all different carb types used on most European cars . . . great starting point for any Weber combination on almost any capacity engine! " Just a little reminder..... that finnish site is in fact swedish.. But you would not notice any difference, would you ? btw... Here is a picture of my 40 DCO webers. I was lucky to find a NOS rebuilding kit from weber !

Ach ja, Entschuldigung bitte . . . Sprachunterschieden sind deutlich für "Nichtsprechender" ein bißchen schwer zu unterscheiden . . .

Well yes, please excuse . . . language differences are obviously a bit difficult for "non-speakers" to distinguish . . .

[Petri H]

That "graf-vlad" is an interesting site for getting DFO info, but the way how DFO is presented there would certainly put any unstarted projects on hold. For sure if someone looks for troublefree performance carb set-up, DFOs are not the choice if side-draughts are available. My driving force is to honor the history of Kadett Rallye in Group I and organise those few extra horsepowers in an old-fashioned way. At the same time I know I organise constant carb adjustment exercises to myself but hey, that's part of the deal.

The factory jetting I have was copied from MISAB site and Werkstatthandbuch. They have the same. So that is truly back to the sixties set-up. But have you experience if it still works in this century?

Stalle, is it still possible to find NOS full repair kits in Sweden?

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Petri H That "graf-vlad" is an interesting site for getting DFO info, but the way how DFO is presented there would certainly put any unstarted projects in hold. For sure if someone looks for troublefree performance carb set-up, DFOs are not the choice if side-draughts are available. My driving force is to honor the history of Kadett Rallye in Group I and organise those few extra horsepowers in an old-fashioned way. At the same time I know I organise constant carb adjustment exercises to myself but hey, that's part of the deal. The factory jetting I have was copied from MISAB site and Werkstatthandbuch. They have the same. So that is truly back to the sixties set-up. But have you experience if it still works in this century? Oh, and now that I've got all the POs' (previous owners') sprint mistakes corrected, I can honestly tell you that the car is an absolute joy to drive . . . even with my TH-180 automatic! The engine sounds are music to the ears! Stalle, is it still possible to find NOS full repair kits in Sweden?

. . . which was exactly my purpose in my Kadett sprint conversion as well!! I used the aircleaner from a Commodore GS, much modified with a Benz 2.8 twin carb K&N filter, for this conversion . . .



A few NOS DFO carb kits are still available on German e-Bay too . . .



Oh, and now that I've fixed all of the POs' (previous owners') sprint mistakes, I can honestly say that my sprint Kadett is a joy to drive . . . even with the TH-180 automatic! The engine sounds are music to the ears!

[stalle]

Originally Posted by Petri H That "graf-vlad" is an interesting site for getting DFO info, but the way how DFO is presented there would certainly put any unstarted projects on hold. For sure if someone looks for troublefree performance carb set-up, DFOs are not the choice if side-draughts are available. My driving force is to honor the history of Kadett Rallye in Group I and organise those few extra horsepowers in an old-fashioned way. At the same time I know I organise constant carb adjustment exercises to myself but hey, that's part of the deal. The factory jetting I have was copied from MISAB site and Werkstatthandbuch. They have the same. So that is truly back to the sixties set-up. But have you experience if it still works in this century? Stalle, is it still possible to find NOS full repair kits in Sweden?

Hi Petri !

I found the kits on e-bay in Germany 2 years ago.
I will have a look at the boxes I saved to search for part numbers.

[Petri H]

Thanks Stalle, looking forward to those part numbers.

BTW, few weeks ago there was a pair of wreck DFOs for sale in swedish "Tradera" auction site. Pity that the seller did not accept sales outside Sweden. The winning bid was 600 SEK i.e. roughly 60 EUR. A very modest sum for carbs which seemed to have pretty ok tooth sectors.

I feel there are not too many "humming" DFOs around, mostly people seem to have projects (including me). Tekenaar, thanks for increasing the motivation with your comments. I know I'm starting to sound like a stuck record, but can you also tell me the jetting of your DFOs?

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Petri H Thanks Stalle, looking forward to those part numbers. BTW, few weeks ago there was a pair of wreck DFOs for sale in swedish "Tradera" auction site. Pity that the seller did not accept sales outside Sweden. The winning bid was 600 SEK i.e. roughly 60 EUR. A very modest sum for carbs which seemed to have pretty ok tooth sectors. I feel there are not too many "humming" DFOs around, mostly people seem to have projects (including me). Tekenaar, thanks for increasing the motivation with your comments. I know I'm starting to sound like a stuck record, but can you also tell me the jetting of your DFOs?

Weber 40DFO jetting, each carb:
Main venturi . . . . . . . . . . 32mm (2)
Main jet . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150 (2)
Main air. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 190 (2)
Emulsion tube . . . . . . . . . . F2 (2)
Idle jet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 (2)
Idle air . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130 (2)
Pump jet . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 (2)
Needle/seat . . . . . . . . . . . 150

[stalle]

Hi again !

Here are pictures of the repair kit for
the DFO:s.


/Staffan

[Petri H]

Thanks for both of you! Looks like you have factory jetting Tekenaar.

Meanwhile, I have installed sprint exhaust and intake manifolds. I managed to break four of the six bolts in downpipe flange while disassembling it. Doesn't really matter since the old exhaust manifold is useless in any case. A new thermostat housing is also in place.

The next step is to design how the carb cable will be attached to gas pedal parts sticking out from the firewall.

My trusted mechanic got a task to fabricate the 40 DCZ tooth sector identical to DFO sector and join that into the shaft. Let's see how that works out. I am still going to continue looking for the NOS part. Hope he does'nt destroy that shaft when removing the old sector.

"Se kuka korjaa tästä lauseesta kielioppivirheen, saa palkintoa"

[Petri H]

Surprisingly there has been some progress with carbs.

My friend managed to remove the old and install a new tooth sector. He decided not to glue or braze the sector, but instead to drill two threaded holes in the sector body. Two, sharp tip micro screws fasten the sector tightly by penetrating into the axis. Just hope that it holds all the vibrations (yes, I used Loctite). The positive thing in this set-up is that you could now adjust the sector angle accurately and thus ensure the flaps are in sync.

Looks like the cable will be pretty easy to install. I just need to make 90 degree piece of metal with holes for cable and bolts and bolt it on the firewall. The BMW cable is slightly too long, but it works well enough.

Here are some pics. The fuel lines are not ready yet and the intake manifold support braces are still on their way. Heard a tip that in Sweden the Sprint air filters can still be located (relatively many Kadett and Rekord Sprints were exported to Sweden). I have one now in radar screen. Meanwhile, I bought Pipercross universal filters at least to have something.

It will not be the prettiest, but it is designed to run.

[tomking]

Looking good. BTW what color is your car??

Originally Posted by Petri H Surprisingly there has been some progress with carbs. My friend managed to remove the old and install a new tooth sector. He decided not to glue or braze the sector, but instead to drill two threaded holes in the sector body. Two, sharp tip micro screws fasten the sector tightly by penetrating into the axis. Just hope that it holds all the vibrations (yes, I used Loctite). The positive thing in this set-up is that you could now adjust the sector angle accurately and thus ensure the flaps are in sync. Looks like the cable will be pretty easy to install. I just need to make 90 degree piece of metal with holes for cable and bolts and bolt it on the firewall. The BMW cable is slightly too long, but it works well enough. Here are some pics. The fuel lines are not ready yet and the intake manifold support braces are still on their way. Heard a tip that in Sweden the Sprint air filters can still be located (relatively many Kadett and Rekord Sprints were exported to Sweden). I have one now in radar screen. Meanwhile, I bought Pipercross universal filters at least to have something. It will not be the prettiest, but it is designed to run.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Petri H That "graf-vlad" is an interesting site for getting DFO info, but the way how DFO is presented there would certainly put any unstarted projects on hold. For sure if someone looks for troublefree performance carb set-up, DFOs are not the choice if side-draughts are available. My driving force is to honor the history of Kadett Rallye in Group I and organise those few extra horsepowers in an old-fashioned way. At the same time I know I organise constant carb adjustment exercises to myself but hey, that's part of the deal. The factory jetting I have was copied from MISAB site and Werkstatthandbuch. They have the same. So that is truly back to the sixties set-up. But have you experience if it still works in this century? Stalle, is it still possible to find NOS full repair kits in Sweden?

. . . OK, in order . . .

1. I've been running my '69 sprint Kadett LS automatic almost daily for about two months now and can attest that, once you set the final tuning of the carbs and ignition (electronic triggered), I've not had to "adjust" it since! I did, however, take a great deal of time designing the linkage for throttle synchronization and a cold, unheated air filtration system for the DFOs, specifically for this purpose.

2. I'm happy to say that my sprint Kadett runs trouble-free - no pinging - on "regular" 87RON gas and shows ~23MPG, down ~1.5MPG from the Solex carb, . . . at 75MPH average! . . . and the throttles are barely cracked at this speed.

3. as already noted in my post #13, NOS DFO carb kits are still available on German e-Bay, and for less than what's listed there as you won't have to pay the included German Mehrwertsteuer (VAT) and they will give you a discounted price for two! . . . my total came to €45.10 EUR for two kits including shipping.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Petri H Surprisingly there has been some progress with carbs. My friend managed to remove the old and install a new tooth sector. . . . in this set-up is that you could now adjust the sector angle accurately and thus ensure the flaps are in sync. Looks like the cable will be pretty easy to install . . . but it works well enough. Here are some pics. The fuel lines are not ready yet and the intake manifold support braces are still on their way . . . Meanwhile, I bought Pipercross universal filters at least to have something. It will not be the prettiest, but it is designed to run.

Great job so far, looks like it's getting close to being back on the road! . . . don't forget to install that motor mount heat shield (for the exhaust) . . . first pic!

[stalle]

Hi !

Nice to follow up in this thread.....

I just want to tell you about the repair kit I talked about earlier,
it´s not the same kit Tekenaar refered to.

The Weber/Opel kit in the picture above is complete with
new oversized shafts, throttle plates, throttle gears, floats ? idle screws
and so on.
So its worth while to find these kits if your DFO is in bad shape...

over and out

/Staffan

[Petri H]

Thanks for the encouragement.

Staffan I think you are right. The kit what you have been able to find is a "full repair kit/ overhaul kit" unlike the "service kits / gasket kits" which are for sale in eBay. The difference in prices is almost tenfold. Nevertheless, I might still buy couple of these eBay kits for storage. You never know when they disappears as well.

Now having 3 of the 4 tooth sectors new, I believe the carbs are almost as good as new. Just recently realised that the carb linkage piece with ball connecting to primary shaft has an oval hole for the screw which connects it to the primary tooth sector. So that's one further adjustment point more.

If the shafts prove to leak air too much, then I need to drill oversize shaft holes and manufacture bronze bushings. Or rather let an expert to do that

BTW Staffan, do you happen to know anyone in Sweden surrounded by extra Sprint air cleaners?

The color code is 444 i.e. Riviera Gold. I have to admit it looks greener than some other 444s in pictures. They have slightly more yellowish shade. Some late 80's Rekord E2 seem to share exactly this same green shade I have.

It was painted over ten years ago and the painter was instructed with this code. He seemed to be a guy who knows his business and made a fantastic job, so I would not go for blaming him easily for this.

[stalle]

Hi Petri !

No I am sorry, I had one in bad conditon that I sold to Finland
with a set of DFO:s. I thought for a minute that it was you....

I wish you luck with your restoration !