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Thread: Is my float overflowing?

  1. #21
    Member My location guyopel's Avatar
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    Quick test, remove your power valve and use tape to plug off the vacuum signal to power valve (carb. bowl gasket). This will help show if it's power valve spring holding open at idle. HTH
    You can test the power valve with it attached to carb. top and apply vacuum to the passage for the power valve (just look at the power valve and you will see the vacuum feed port) it will not be easy to apply vacuum to the passage because it's flat but with adapter it can be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    I have no idea how or where to hook up a mighty vacuum to see the function of the power valve.
    I think Jimmy means one of these: Mityvac MV8000 Brake Bleeder - Brake Tools

    HTH --- Doug

  4. #23
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    I have time, now, to work on this again. I have the top of the carb off. I thought I had brass floats but they are the plastic ones. I'm changing those out.

    The power spring function....

    I assume that the spring should not be so strong as to push down the power valve while the engine isn't running.
    I assume that there's vacuum pressure that pushes the piston DOWN to cause the power valve to open?
    I assume that I don't want the above action to function prematurely.

    Is this stuff correct?

    In essence, could one theoretically disable the power valve completely by stopping the piston from moving at all? (this is just a hyperbole of function type question).

    On a different note. What is the easiest way of switching the carburetor fuel input from the driver side of the carb to the passenger side? I never liked the sharp bend at the filler tube and don't like the up/down alternate method of running the fuel line.
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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    On a different note. What is the easiest way of switching the carburetor fuel input from the driver side of the carb to the passenger side? I never liked the sharp bend at the filler tube and don't like the up/down alternate method of running the fuel line.
    You would have to carefully drill and tap the other inlet side then move your fitting over and use a pipe plug for the other side to seal it off.

    That's the only way I know to do it....
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  7. #25
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69whitegt View Post
    You would have to carefully drill and tap the other inlet side then move your fitting over and use a pipe plug for the other side to seal it off.

    That's the only way I know to do it....
    Working on that very thing right now. Stay tuned.
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  8. #26
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    First opel 1981 likes this.

  9. #27
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsay View Post
    Thanks for the link.

    Doing that test, the power valve must be leaking. If I press it without the hole plugged then it returns pretty quick. If I plug the hole, then it returns slowly (about 3/4 second).

    I'm still unsure of the logic of how the power valve works.
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  10. #28
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    While checking my carb out today, I thought it was time to do the long-time-coming modification. I wanted the fuel to enter the carb from the right side, not the left side, to keep the fuel away from the motor before entering the carb. This results in cooler fuel entering the carb.

    This is the original setup.



    As you can see, the original inlet is on the left (driver side) of the carburetor. The right side is a hole that is in place but not actually a passage for fuel. I've found more weber carbs have the configuration this way than any other way.

    I started by taking a 11/16 drill bit and chasing the hole to the bottom.



    After that I used a 1/4 NPT tap to thread the hole.




    After that I used a smaller bit (have no idea what size it was) and drilled completely through the passage into where the internal filter resides.



    It turned out that the passage I drilled matched the one on the left almost perfectly.

    Then I inspected the internal filter area for stray metal shavings.



    I saw a small burr, as you see in the photo, and removed it carefully. Then I sprayed it all out with carb cleaner and checked the new passage using a Q-tip.

    I then threaded a 1/4 NPT hose barb into the new inlet using significant amount of teflon tape and snugged it tight.

    While doing the mod, I noticed that, opposite of what I had remembered, I had an older float valve so I replaced it with the rubber tip one that I had in my rebuild parts stuff.

    Also, I checked my power valve and the one I had in there leaked a little bit. I decided to replace it. I have a rebuilt Holley that I bought at a swap meet that I stole the assembly from. I verified that it was working properly.
    I also, for good measure, removed four rings from the spring. Why 4? I remembered that's how many I removed when I did my son's mod and I like the way his car runs. Now the power valve seems to work more like I'd expect it to.

    In all this, I also decided to check the power valve on my old carb, because I had the same non-idle issue with the old carb (which is why I've been suspecting the distributor this whole time) and the power valve in that one was shot. I took it apart and could see pinholes in the diaphragm.

    It's possible that I had the same problems on both carbs.

    Tomorrow I will plug up the original inlet (haven't decided how I'd do it yet) and take the car for a test run.
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    VERY nice! Excellent pics!


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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post

    I'm still unsure of the logic of how the power valve works.
    I was talking to a GT racer dude recently(name withheld to protect the innocent), and he said he learned from some Pinto dudes how to completely delete the power valve and plug some metering orifices that actuate it. He drives his car balls out all the time, so his power valve would be open all the time. I think he said that it was better to eliminate the power valve function entirely and just jet the carb for best balls out performance.

    So, my thinking(guessing) is that the power valve is almost exclusively for economy and daily driverability, where you spend substantial amounts of time idling or with your foot off the gas.


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  14. #32
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Thanks guys.

    I have it figured out now.

    Power valve and it's explanation, ELI.10 version.

    The power valve adds extra fuel, when needed, to an engine. The power valve restricts fuel when it's NOT needed.
    In reality this should be called a "Fuel economy valve" as it's function is to save fuel when not needed.

    What does this mean?

    When the car is idling, the power valve should be CLOSED
    When the car needs power, the valve should open.

    Pretty easy, right?

    NOT SO FAST!

    Let's examine how it works.

    When your car is idling, there's extra vacuum to certain areas. One of those areas has a little hole that goes all the way up to the power valve, to a diaphragm, where it pulls a plunger and CLOSES the valve.

    So, when the car is "off", the power valve is actually OPEN.

    We call this "NO" or Normally Open.

    And that's where the confusion happens.

    With a "NO" situation, there needs to be a function to make it "C" Closed. With the power valve, this is done with vacuum from that tiny hole.

    There are three main reasons why this function fails.

    1) The diaphragm is damaged.
    2) The car isn't producing enough vacuum to close the valve.
    3) The valve, itself, is gunked up.

    In the first condition, there's a pretty easy test to perform. There's a link above that does the test.
    press the plunger, cover the hole, release the plunger, evaluate the results. A very definitive test, to be sure.

    In the third condition it helps to know that the actual "valve" is in the bottom of the carburetor where gunk can build up. It should be inspected and cleaned from time to time.

    The second condition is a little more muddy.

    When the power valve diaphragm is manufactured, it's made for a "normal" engine. A normal engine has a certain mount of vacuum that it maintains at a regular idle. The thing about that is things change from time to time. It doesn't matter if the engine got older or there's someone, like the author here, tinkering with things.
    This can change how much vacuum there is at idle which changes whether or not the diaphragm of the power valve will retract (closing the power valve).

    This can be fixed by weakening the spring that pushes the power valve open. Then it takes less vacuum to close the valve.


    OK, that should explain things.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Now, for me and for those that have this problem.

    Some things to consider.

    When you cut the spring, you reduce the tension. When you reduce the tension you change the point where the valve closes. If you reduce the tension enough, the power valve shaft doesn't have enough pressure to even open the power valve. So the valve is always closed.

    So, an easy way to disable the power valve is to take a dremel and cut the power valve shaft off and throw away the base and the spring.
    Another way to disable the power valve is to grind away the plunger on the brass valve in the bottom of the float bowl.
    Yet, another, way to disable the power valve is to remove the valve at the bottom of the float bowl and fill the passage with a fuel-proof substance (epoxy).

    Disabling the power valve should require rejetting the carb.


    Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
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  15. #33
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    http://www.opelgt.com/forums/afterma....html#post6245
    <snip>
    you can reduce the amount of vacuum needed to keep the power valve closed by clipping the power valve spring 1/2 wind at a time and checking the vacuum needed to fully compress it..... 1-1.5 inches of vacuum difference should be enough to prevent any problems ...
    <snip>

    Noted for 38DGAS, but applies to 32/ 36 Weber carburetor.

  16. #34
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    First test.
    Checked the vacuum at idle. I was at 8 bars so I know I was idling on the transition. Not a surprise.
    I turned the idle stop screw all the way out (car barely ran) and got to 1.5 bars. I couldn't feel the pressure on my thumb but the gauge doesn't lie, right?

    So, adjust the butterfly on the bottom of the carb? Not hardly. I'll have to see if I can live with 1.5 bars. For now anyhow.

    I adjusted the mixture screws as much as I could. It lopes at 1100 rpm's. Not a bad lope but I know it's loping. It has a noticable bog on the rev (no load, hand operated throttle).

    I didn't look to see if I was still dripping fuel. If I am, it's not the diaphragm on the power valve. And it's probably not the float or needle valve. That would leave the power valve, itself, or high fuel pressure.


    I should probably not be adjusting things on six month, bottom of the tank, gas either.

    And I'm going to replace the distributor with one of my rebuilt ones.
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