2.4 with an SSD and a 45DCOE - Page 7
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Thread: 2.4 with an SSD and a 45DCOE

  1. #121
    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I think we're talking about two different effects in regards to the balancing tube. My intended purpose for it is to smooth out the idle and help the brake booster performance. You're talking about balancing/tuning the individual carb barrels for even running and performance. If my uneven lengthed runners create an imbalance, I presume that my dyno tuner guy may use those compensation screws to even things out. I'll certainly make a point of mentioning it to him!


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    7,000 Post Club My location wrench459's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    I think we're talking...help the brake booster performance.
    Yep
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    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war"

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    Tennessean Site Supporter My location hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    If my uneven lengthed runners create an imbalance, I presume that my dyno tuner guy may use those compensation screws to even things out. I'll certainly make a point of mentioning it to him!

    If he/she is any good, they may take that as an insult. Then again, any tuning advice offered may just result in a larger bill.

    Harold
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  6. #124
    7,000 Post Club My location wrench459's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr View Post
    If he/she is any good, they may take that as an insult. Then again, any tuning advice offered may just result in a larger bill.

    Harold
    I can't speak for others.

    I'll just smile and say "oh sure you don't want a crankcase explosion..right?"

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war"

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    Balancing a SSD with balance tube

    Hi. What I was saying is the throttle plates are physically linked and require no air flow balancing like what is required with two carburetors.
    In Gordon's case he has a balance tube to ensure better mixture balance. As such it must not be blocked off when selecting jetting or adjusting the idle mixture screws but because there is some interaction between the two sides. Any changes made to one side must be matched on the other jetting and adjustments then with a vacuum gauge do the the final idle adjustment one side then the other and repeat if the idle speed is changed redo the mixtures.
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  8. #126
    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Boo-hoo!



    I had called my side draft tuner/dyno dude to ask for advice on how to jet my chromy 40DCOE for my 2.4, so that I could drive it to his shop for dyno tuning. I had explained that my whole purpose was to improve my lowly less-than-20mpg engine performance. He said that putting the 40 on wouldn't do shiite to improve my mileage and that the only way I could improve that situation would be to change my rear axle gearing to 270or so(I presently have a 318) or go with a Getrag. Nope, ain't gonna do that.

    Sooooo, that means there's nothing stopping me from putting the Steinmetz manifold on right now and simply swapping my 45DCOE over to it, then a trip to the tuner dude to dial it all in. I'll get started on that this coming weekend.

    On another front, Charlie called me to talk about cam shaft profiles. He's telling me that there's a good chance that my engine has a slightly better stock camshaft from an Omega, instead of the cam that came on the Frontera's. The only way to know for sure is to pull the head. When I got the engine, I'm pretty sure that I was told that it came from an OGTS customer's vehicle that came with a 2.4 engine. Charlie tells me that it's then likely that it was a grey market Omega 'cuz hardly any, if any, Fronteras made it over here. Apparently, the Omega cams had a bit more lift. The engine does lope a bit at idle and it sure does go fast, so maybe it's true. I'll call Gil to see if he remembers what kind of vehicle my engine came from.


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    Owner of EZ2Wire.com My location GoinManta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    Apparently, the Omega cams had a bit more lift. The engine does lope a bit at idle and it sure does go fast, so maybe it's true.
    Technically no one has the @.50 data on the Omega Cam but what is shown on Ottos chart looks NOTHING like what I specced.

    I specced a known Frontera Cam at both #1 and #4

    Then I swapped cams in my setup to a OR-66 speced it ( looked the same as Isky calls for ) so as a control it worked.

    Then I swapped in a second Frontera Cam and specced it at both #1 and #4

    The average is what is on the screenshot attached.

    Instead of the typical 110 LSA, I cam up with 103.5, when you go with the median average.

    Then add to that its a split profile and a goofy one at that. Long story short its a truck cam. When you look around you see that the Frontera power peaks at 4400 RPM, which would be great for a frontera but totally suck on an Omega. So.. one has to assume ( until someone can spec out an Omega cam ) that the numbers on Ottos chart are for an Omega as his chart has nothing like what I dialed up.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Ginger"
    '05 Pontiac GTO

    In the past owned:
    '04 & 06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many other Opels

  10. #128
    ggl
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post


    Boo-hoo!



    I had called my side draft tuner/dyno dude to ask for advice on how to jet my chromy 40DCOE for my 2.4, so that I could drive it to his shop for dyno tuning. I had explained that my whole purpose was to improve my lowly less-than-20mpg engine performance. He said that putting the 40 on wouldn't do shiite to improve my mileage and that the only way I could improve that situation would be to change my rear axle gearing to 270or so(I presently have a 318) or go with a Getrag. Nope, ain't gonna do that.
    Assuming the DCOE has been jetted reasonably correct the main thing you can do to improve the mileage is to not use the loud pedal quite so much. That acc pump delivers "quite a bit" of fuel and it does so each and every time you move the loud pedal.

    DCOE carbs are made for performance and it won't "mask" your bad driving habits like regular carbs. You open the throttle ..... it assumes you want performance and elivers, if you want to get the mpg up then drive smoother. And it's entirely possible because my brother's Alfa Spider with DSD Solex DCOE type carbs get way more than 20 mpg and so did my old Ascona with dual 40 DCOE, and I had a 3.44 rear end, 4 speed and 195/55-13 tires at the time so no lazy long legged top gear to get the revs down

    Cowboy up
    "I hate RallyBob"


  11. #129
    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I just talked with Gil and he said that it's virtually assured that my engine came from an Omega. One of the tell-tale clues was that they had to plug the dipstick hole in front of the motor mount and drill out and install the dipstick in the behind the motor mount location. He said that all Omegas had the front sump pans and the Fronteras had the rear sump "hammerhead" pans. He also went on to say that my engine was one that he had gotten in a batch of engines from Germany, where the Omegas were far more common, instead of England where the Fronteras were common. I had been under the impression that my engine came from a grey market car with the 2.4 as it's stock engine, but it turns out that my engine is from the batch of German Omega engines he had acquired and it had been sold to a customer to fix up his GT. The guy never finished his project and never ran the engine and sold the car and engine to Gil. So, it's no wonder that I had some initial problems with my engine(blown head gasket): It was an unknown quality junkyard engine that had never run in this country until I bought it.

    FYI to PJ: This also means that my original 2.4 engine that I had bought about 5 years ago, never fixed it up, and sold it to PJ, was an Omega engine with the zippier camshaft. That engine had the finned 2.4 front sump oil pan. The 2.4 I have in my car now had it's oil pan swapped out and replaced with a GT steel one before I got it, so I never knew which pan it had originally.


    Gil also clued me in on the creation of the Steinmetz manifold I have and why no one has ever seen a car with one of them installed. He said that the designer of the manifold is a top European intake designer who has done work for many major car companies. Gil had a prototype of this manifold many years ago, but had only tried to fit it to a 1.9 engine. He found that it was too big for a stock 1.9 with whatever carb he had put on it(The runners are very large inside, almost 50% larger than the stock Midikit's) and that he got better performance with a Weber 38. On my 2.4, however, he thinks it will out perform my Midikit manifold, due to only one barrel of the carb being subjected to only one cylinder's demand for air/fuel, instead of both barrels having to respond to a half-strength vacuum signal. Blah-blah-blah......the proof will be in the pudding. Apparently I'm the first guy to put one of these on a 2.4, so we'll see how it all turns out.

    I'm excited!

    Last edited by The Scifi Guy; 04-06-2017 at 07:56 AM.

  12. #130
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_C....4_liter_model
    2.4 liter model
    The 2.4L capacity version was the final 4-cylinder CIH engine, first used on the Omega A in the German market (the 2.0L Family II unit was the top spec 4-cylinder engine option for the Omega in most markets outside of Germany), the final application was in the Frontera SUV vehicle.
    Applications:
    • 1992-1998 Opel Frontera A
    • 1988-1993 Opel Omega A

  13. #131
    2000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    FYI to PJ: This also means that my original 2.4 engine that I had bought about 5 years ago, never fixed it up, and sold it to PJ, was an Omega engine with the zippier camshaft. That engine had the finned 2.4 front sump oil pan. The 2.4 I have in my car now had it's oil pan swapped out and replaced with a GT steel one before I got it, so I never knew which pan it had originally.
    Thanks Gordon, although it does not matter in my case. I just used block and crankshaft, everything else is custom.
    Old racers never die. They just go bench racing.

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    Owner of EZ2Wire.com My location GoinManta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    Thanks Gordon, although it does not matter in my case. I just used block and crankshaft, everything else is custom.
    Do you still have the cam.. Love to spec it out.
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Ginger"
    '05 Pontiac GTO

    In the past owned:
    '04 & 06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many other Opels

  15. #133
    7,000 Post Club My location wrench459's Avatar
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    Yuck Yuck
    I bet chuck will look into "ghost cams" next.

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war"

  16. #134
    2000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoinManta View Post
    Do you still have the cam.. Love to spec it out.
    It is ENEM X1 cam, hydraulic lifters.

    Intake duration: 284 degrees
    Exhaust duration: 284 degrees
    Intake lobe center after TDC: 107 degrees
    Exhaust lobe center before TDC: 111 degrees
    Valve lift at 0 clearance: 11.7 mm (same for intake and exhaust valves)

    Valve srings rated pressure:
    Closed valve:40-42 kp (100 lbs)
    Open valve:120-125 kp (265 lbs)

    I have attached the list of Opel camshafts and camshafts for CIH engines from various suppliers.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Old racers never die. They just go bench racing.

  17. #135
    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    Blah-blah-blah......the proof will be in the pudding. Apparently I'm the first and only guy to put one of these on a 2.4, so we'll see how it all turns out.

    I'm excited!

    Turns out Buy better flat pistons and rings

  18. #136
    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    Turns out Buy better flat pistons and rings

    I'm working on that.......



  19. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    I'm working on that.......


    And when I remember the Scifi drive style,the 20 mpg are total normal for a 2.4

    20 Miles per gallon (US) [MPG]

    = 11,76 Liter pro 100 Kilometer [l/100km]

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    Owner of EZ2Wire.com My location GoinManta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    It is ENEM X1 cam, hydraulic lifters.

    Intake duration: 284 degrees
    Exhaust duration: 284 degrees
    Intake lobe center after TDC: 107 degrees
    Exhaust lobe center before TDC: 111 degrees
    Valve lift at 0 clearance: 11.7 mm (same for intake and exhaust valves)

    Valve srings rated pressure:
    Closed valve:40-42 kp (100 lbs)
    Open valve:120-125 kp (265 lbs)

    I have attached the list of Opel camshafts and camshafts for CIH engines from various suppliers.
    I meant the original 2.4L Cam that Gordon sent you. Thats what I would like to spec.

    Also the Otto list is missing a few critical things on the list in regards to the Opel stock cams.

    First of all they are not rated at @.50 and are not accurate, thus they are not comparable to the rest of the cams on the list.

    Also apparently the Frontera Cams were not listed

    As my specs for the Frontera 24NE don't match the list in the slightest and they don't list the 2.3L diesel cam.
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Ginger"
    '05 Pontiac GTO

    In the past owned:
    '04 & 06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many other Opels

  21. #139
    2000 Post Club Site Supporter My location P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Sorry Charles, I do not have that cam any more.
    Old racers never die. They just go bench racing.

  22. #140
    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    And when I remember the Scifi drive style,the 20 mpg are total normal for a 2.4

    20 Miles per gallon (US) [MPG]

    = 11,76 Liter pro 100 Kilometer [l/100km]

    I don't drive like RallyBob or Charlie!!!!!!





    This is New Jersey. There is always a car in front of you, so you can't go fast. Sheesh! ONE time I step on the gas and Norbert can't catch me in the Solstice and now I am RallyGordo!!!!!





    I have done many drives like Grandpa where I stayed at 50 or 70mph non-stop and never changed speed for 2 hours and still I only get 15mpg.

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