ITB Ascona is finally progressing

[RITTER]

That would be AWESOME ! My car is a long ways off from doing anything like that ( well i could if they would let me but it wouldn't pass inspection at any track yet) I'd really like to see some inside shots that would be a very different perspective. A camera right to the helmet, yeah ,so we could see the corner G's effect and a close up of the RPM guage once in awhile! ha ha what ever you do i am sure would be cool ...

RITTER

[72GT]

That's an amazing rollcage - but I hope you never need to "test" it!
I was wondering what gauge sheetmetal you used for repairing the drivers-side footwell. And also wondered if there would be any problem with corrosion between the sheetmetal base and the aluminum plate?

[RallyBob]

Originally posted by 72GT I was wondering what gauge sheetmetal you used for repairing the drivers-side footwell. And also wondered if there would be any problem with corrosion between the sheetmetal base and the aluminum plate?

I used 18 ga steel for the repair. Corrosion won't be a problem simply because I'm a die-hard advocate of POR-15! The repaired areas will be coated with POR-15 first, then the entire interior is being sprayed with an inexpensive catalyzed enamel. The aluminum plate will be attached afterwards.

Bob

[RallyBob]

I didn't feel like working on rust last weekend, so I pulled the exhaust off the ITB car and started to build the header. Didn't get far though, lots of unexpected problems removing the old exhaust to be returned to the PO (stainless steel and expensive, so I couldn't cut it). But I got a few hours in and managed to finish two cylinders and start the third one. Hopefully tomorrow I can finish the rest and start on the exhaust system itself.

Bob


The raw header parts before I started

[RallyBob]

Header flange bolted to the head

[RallyBob]

I finished cylinders #1 and #4 all the way back to the collector, and managed to get started on cylinder #2. Tubes are 1.5" OD and will be 38" long from flange to collector, with a 2.25" collector diameter. A 2.5" collector is too large, and will reduce scavenging efficiency, although it is commonly done.

[GoinManta]

Hey Bob when your done.. and have played with it for a season or and then get bored with it can I buy it..

Charles

[RallyBob]

Let's see now....$120 in parts, plus 8 hours of labor @ $50 an hour plus ceramic coating costs @ $110.... that's $630 plus my cost for testing services......

Bob

[GoinManta]

Who said I wanted the exhaust manifold alone... I was talking about the whole car..

[RallyBob]

Umm....yea....sure...I'm going to sell my parts and hard labor to Charles Goin, then he's going to drive it across the country and sell it to Opel's Unlimited, and then Todd's going to put it on display in his showroom and call it his new 'Stage 18' car, just in from Germany.....

[GoinManta]

Originally posted by RallyBob Umm....yea....sure...I'm going to sell my parts and hard labor to Charles Goin, then he's going to drive it across the country

Hey now.. this is where you should have stopped.. because this would be a accurate statement. Because we all know the car will never see a OMC event unless I am behind the wheel... We havent seen a Bob Legere car at Carlilse, so I doubt we would ever see you drive one of your creations across country.

And just like the LAST time the car would come home with me... Just like the Bitter did

[RallyBob]

Sadly though, I haven't driven an Opel as a daily driver since 1998 when my 73 Ascona got rear-ended (0ver 90,000 miles put on it in 7 years, may it RIP). Now with 2 other newer cars to choose from on a daily basis, the need wasn't there for a daily-driven Opel. But recently the itch to race again got to be too much, so I started on the ITB car. If it weren't for that decision, I'd have probably started getting rid of my Opel stuff for good. Of course, like any disease, it has spread, so again I WANT to prepare another street-driven Opel, the red 1971 wagon shown in the photo gallery. Weekends and special events only this time......

Bob

[GoinManta]

Yea yea... and I sold my Commodore in 2000 to get out of Opels as well... Now look at me... Its an addicition I tell ya.

[Travis]

Bob,

What tools did you use to bend and cut the cage? Are the typical shoe style pipe(yes, I realize pipe and tube are measured differently) benders adequate? And a hole saw style tubing notcher?

-Travis

[RallyBob]

Most pipe benders will crimp rollcage tubing somewhat. I have a manual tubing bender from Pro Tools....nothing too fancy, but it works well. I polished the mandrels, and this made a big difference in ease of bending. I also have a chop saw to cut the tubing, as well as a band saw (much quieter). And for notching, I have a hole-saw type notcher, a manual 'pull-type' notcher (from Low Buck Tools), and my plasma cutter. I tend to use the plasma cutter a lot, there are no restrictions to angles like the other notchers have, it can cut odd shapes quickly.

Bob

[Travis]

I've looked at the Low Buck Tools tubing bender in the past. I just wish it was a bit cheaper. Even the Pro Tools manual bender costs about the same once you add the die. I'd probably just build a simple frame and add a cheap bottle jack if the LBTs die wasn't $225. Thats alot of $ for piece of cast aluminum and a roller....

I've yet to figure out how to justify the costs of a plasma cutter but it's been on my wish list for a few years now. I haven't had much luck trying to find a reasonably priced used unit either...

It's only money, right?

-Travis

[RallyBob]

FWIW, all the parts on the Pro Tools bender are steel, no aluminum in sight. I have mandrels for 1", 1.5", and 1.75" tubing. Let me know if you need anything bent up Travis, I have a template for the GT main hoop.

I questioned the plasma cutter too initially. I was going to get a 35 amp unit for $1400. I decided to wait a bit longer and got the next step up, a 50 amp unit for $2300. Yes, it's expensive, but I don't regret it. In fact, I wonder how I went so long without it!! The nice part about the 50 amp unit is it cuts EASILY at the thickness that the lower-priced machine would have been maxed out at. You need a 1/2" thick header flange cut? No problem!! This thing will do it. Even cuts 3/8" aluminum. I use the plasma cutter as much as my MIG welder...it's surprising how many other tools it replaced, and it generally does a faster job. I made templates of certain gussets I use a lot, and can cut out a super-clean product in no time with it. Now, the next big buy-in is a TIG welder....$$$$.

Bob

[davegt27]

I used to used a Plasma cutter when I worked at Commercial Body Corp., it was one of those High $$ ones.

the thing worked great in the shop environment (building bucket trucks) but the main reason i did not go back to the Cage builder that built the GT's cage was they used a Plasma cutter

After the cuts you really need to clean up the cuts with a sander or grinder looks pretty nasty if you don't.

Some crazy nut put a Harbor Freight a few blocks up the road so I am picking up all kinds of stuff. Just bought a tubing notcher to go along with the portable band saw and the sheet metal brake, so far it works great (had to do some work to the MR2's cage) as long as you use it with a drill press

Hey Bob we should make a bet on who gets his car on track first Ha ha that should get me moving

the next thing i need is a drill press
or maybe a Lathe
no maybe that $199 Aluminum jack
no

oh well

Davegt74

[Travis]

Originally posted by RallyBob Let me know if you need anything bent up Travis, I have a template for the GT main hoop.

Actually I was thinking a full Rally Cage for my Manta. I'll stop by and pick it up in the morning

Seriously, I just planning for the future. Once I get the GT to a stable racable state I don't plan to do too much to it over the winter. No big projects which could get delayed and prevent me from racing a full season next year. So this means I'll have some time for another project and I'm thinking to build the Manta within the Rally Group 2 rules with the intention of RallyCrossing it. And then who knows...maybe I'll figure out how to finance running it in Rallies.

Any suggestions for cage design reading material?

$2400 plasma cutter? I'm having difficulty justifying a $1000 unit

-Travis

[RallyBob]

Originally posted by Travis Any suggestions for cage design reading material? -Travis

Nothing I've ever seen in print. The SCCA Rally rulebook outlines the minimum cage requirements, that's all. Photos help a lot, or observing cars in person at events, but still, they are not too relevant since we don't have to concern ourselves with reinforcing strut towers! I have a ton of notes and sketches pertaining to this however. Going retro doesn't help either, when the Opels were homologated for rallying, they only needed a roll bar for protection, no cage!

Bob

[davegt27]

Bob sent me a drawing on his ideas for a Rally cage for an Ascona

Flipping Awesome.

the best book i can think of is Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams (i know I've said it before)

I think his book is great, you could even get some ideas on the Toyota rear end.

Have a look at the PICS for Bob's cage. take a look at where he has the Main Hoop

you want the Main Hoop as far back as practical (with in the rules)
why--- this gives the driver more room.
also look how he did his door bars
you want a variation of his door bars and a NASCAR type door bars

the way it angles down is great for getting in and out of the car
but i would like to see it go out into the door and angle down
maybe at a lesser angle

as for the rest of the cage if you are going all out trying to win a Championship just remember LOWERING THE CG 2 INCHES IS LIKE WIDENING THE TRACK 6 INCHES

Call low CG a secret of speed or building Handling HP

I could send you some PICS of my Cage in My GT.
some of it is good some not so Good
the GT slopes down right after the drivers head so its hard to get the main hoop both back and high

the best bet would be to cut the roof off put in a chrome molly cage and put the roof back on


Davegt74

[Travis]

Originally posted by davegt74 the best book i can think of is Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams (i know I've said it before)

I have this book. It has strengths and weakneses. It touches on subjects many of the other books don't but it's overly simplistic in many areas. Its cage section for example...

I've been studying pics of WRC car interiors and I've found some interesting approaches. I just need to decide which approaches best match how I want the car setup.

-Travis