Frame rail repair

[azopelnut]

I have an Ascona that was a midwest car and unfortunately has some frame rail damage. I want to repair and reinforce the damaged area and was assuming that a metal gusset could repair and reinforce the damaged rail area. My question is to obtain the most correct position should the repair piece be welded in place:
1) With the car sitting on its tires
2) With the car supported by the rear and front suspension(tires off the ground)

I assume the correct way would be #1 experts what do you think??

[simplemind7]

i'm not really an expert, so ignor me if i'm wrong, but i don't see how it would make a difference if you are supporting it by the tires or the suspension, since either way its the same amount of weight on the suspension, and therefore the frame.

also... make sure you straighten the frame before you weld anything, i worked on a BMW once that someone tried to fix before i got to it, they welded before straightening the frame... then didn't straighten it enough and tried to peice the car back together... needless to say, it was ugly and had to be entirely redone... although it did turn out nice after about a years worth of body work :o

[GoinManta]

I have frame rail covers and jack point replacement sheetmetal IN STOCK.. (believe it or not). The frame rail cover is just that, and it would be a easier thing to weld with the wieght on the wheels. Because on a lift its hard to get to that area to repair it.

[DennisGardiner]

Opels procedure is really involved.
They want "Zero" engine & suspension weight distorting the car, while the
skin & damaged areas are removed.
But if you jack the car up by the front suspension cross member & the rear
suspension under the axle, you should be okay.
Just to be sure, you might want to measure from the floor to the frame rail,
before you begin to cut. That & check door alignment as well, before you
begin.
Then double check the same measurements & door gaps, before you weld
everything back up.
Dennis 73 Gt & 73 Manta

[Bill Hoffmann]

It's certainly a good idea to take the measurements that Dennis described. One especially critical one is the location of the bolt that ties the subframe to the frame rail, especially if the inner frame rail reinforcement is being replaced also (in which case you lose your bolt hole location).

Having done this repair several times, I would recommend supporting the front of the car on the frame rails themselves. Assuming you're working on the driver's side, a jack stand can be positioned to support the passenger side where the front jack point is, and the other one can be further back, beyond the damaged area, preferably at the point under the front seatback where it joins another transverse rail. Use a piece of wood to distribute the load. When the repair piece is fitted satisfactorily and clamped in position, jack the car and move the jack stand to the same position as the passenger side so that the repair piece is actually supporting that side of the car. Then make the necessary welds. This will tend to give the frame a slightly positive arch, which evens out with the wheels on the ground.

Another tip: That bolt which ties the rear arm of the subframe to the frame rails is usually quite stuck. If it doesn't want to come out it's better to disconnect the arm from the subframe. Remove the nut from the lower control arm bolt, the bolt that attaches the steering rack, and disconnect the stabilizer bar's rear mounts. By prying a little between the arm and the subframe you can clear the LCA's bolt and swing it free. Then cut off the head of the stuck bolt and drive it through, along with the arm. Once off of the car, you can remove the bolt from the rubber bushing's sleeve much easier on a work bench. The down side is that you have to buy a new bolt, but you would probably destroy more than that fighting with it on the car.

Good luck.

[GoinManta]

Originally Posted by Bill Hoffmann Another tip: That bolt which ties the rear arm of the subframe to the frame rails is usually quite stuck. If it doesn't want to come out it's better to disconnect the arm from the subframe. Remove the nut from the lower control arm bolt, the bolt that attaches the steering rack, and disconnect the stabilizer bar's rear mounts. By prying a little between the arm and the subframe you can clear the LCA's bolt and swing it free. Then cut off the head of the stuck bolt and drive it through, along with the arm. Once off of the car, you can remove the bolt from the rubber bushing's sleeve much easier on a work bench. The down side is that you have to buy a new bolt, but you would probably destroy more than that fighting with it on the car.

Thats' great info.. I have sold many of the jackpoint & framerail covers, but never done it myself. But will be doing it soon and wondered about that bolt.

Also a point to mention.. some cars (like my sons Manta) have perfectly fitting doors. This generally means the subframe hasn't bent or gotten out of shape due to the rust damage. So the patch should go on easily and I would gather the frame is still fairly straight.

On the other hand (I have had a number of Mantas with this problem). The battery box has rust and/or (usually AND) the frame rail is rusted as well. All this has weakened the structure and causes all sort of alignment problems.

Including door sag, clutch cables that seem to be stretched or something because you can't get the clutch to engage (This is usally the firewall flexing behind the brake booster). Which doesnt help matters because as you continue to push on the clutch and brakes, this causes further flexing and weaking of the structure.

Not sure is this is primarly a Manta problem, because the doors are frame less, or if asconas have a equally bad problem with door sag, and other alignment problems due to rust damage, even though they have fully framed doors.

Charles

[GoinManta]

Anyone needing the forementioned rail cover or jack points, etc.. etc.. I have posted a few auctions here at the Opel GT Ad board. 10% of all sales go to OpelGT.com

Charles

[azopelnut]

Thank you Bill and Charles
I will get my lazy butt underneath the Ascona and take some pictures to see exactly what i need. Charles.. do you have both the frame rail and jack supports in stock???

[GoinManta]

YEs, I have in stock :

1 set of Manta Window Rubber (STD)
1 set of Manta Window Rubber (GTE)
5 Right Jack Points
4 Left Jack Points
6 Frame rail covers
1 Driver side floorboard

Then a bunch of odds and ends I have had for years. But as for the regular items I import thats what I got and can ship in less than a few days.

Charles