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| Ascona (1900) Please post technical questions in the appropriate Technical Forum, unless it is very specific to the Ascona. |
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#1 (permalink) |
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you guys are super
How about a clutch fan for a 1975? |
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Paul "azopelnut" Heebink
1956 Studebaker Power Hawk 259 V8 1970 GT 12A-Rotary 5-speed 1973 (2) GTs, both 1.9 4-speed 1973 Ascona 4-door 1.9 4-speed A/C 1974 Manta, 1.9 Auto A/C 1975 Sportwagon 1.9 FI 4-speed A/C 1975 Fiat X19 |
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#3 (permalink) |
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yes a clutch fan (for a 1975 Opel with a 1.9 engine)
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Paul "azopelnut" Heebink
1956 Studebaker Power Hawk 259 V8 1970 GT 12A-Rotary 5-speed 1973 (2) GTs, both 1.9 4-speed 1973 Ascona 4-door 1.9 4-speed A/C 1974 Manta, 1.9 Auto A/C 1975 Sportwagon 1.9 FI 4-speed A/C 1975 Fiat X19 |
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#5 (permalink) |
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I am trying to eliminate an overheating issue.
Radiator (3 core)-ok thermostat-new |
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Paul "azopelnut" Heebink
1956 Studebaker Power Hawk 259 V8 1970 GT 12A-Rotary 5-speed 1973 (2) GTs, both 1.9 4-speed 1973 Ascona 4-door 1.9 4-speed A/C 1974 Manta, 1.9 Auto A/C 1975 Sportwagon 1.9 FI 4-speed A/C 1975 Fiat X19 |
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#7 (permalink) |
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I thought that if the clutch fan is not engaging properly that it could overheat the engine.
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Paul "azopelnut" Heebink
1956 Studebaker Power Hawk 259 V8 1970 GT 12A-Rotary 5-speed 1973 (2) GTs, both 1.9 4-speed 1973 Ascona 4-door 1.9 4-speed A/C 1974 Manta, 1.9 Auto A/C 1975 Sportwagon 1.9 FI 4-speed A/C 1975 Fiat X19 |
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#8 (permalink) | |
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Cunning Linguist
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Clutch fan . . . actually de-clutch fan
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P ♥ '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 ♥ '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P |
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#9 (permalink) |
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5,000 Post Club
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego
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Otto, et. al., On my old motorhome with a GM 454, I had two fan drives fail in the free wheeling position. The failed part on both was the bimetallic temp sensor spring in the front of the hub. As long as the sensor thought the air was cool coming through the radiator it never engaged the viscous drive of the clutch. Both went back to the manufacturer because, like you, no one had ever seen a failure like that. Needless to say, I did receive two new drives free. BTW the first was purchased here inSANe DIEGO, the second I got in Sacremento, when the first on failed, and the third one, again inSANe Diego, when the second one failed. What was wierder, and caused the concern and replacment on both was that neither one would engage at low engine RPM as they're supposed to. Murphy was alive and well on that motorhome, continuosly. It earned the nickname, Murphymobile, the motorhome from hell.
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Ron
72 GT 3.4L V-6/T-5/ZF posi - almost done - Just need AC installed. ![]() 75 Chevy monza 5.7L/TH350/Auburn 3.08 posi - Next |
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#10 (permalink) |
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(found this on Google)
The clutch works by shearing a viscous fluid, the drag from which couples force from the driving shaft to the driven hub. The clutch consists of two sections, a fixed drag section that provides a minimum level of torque and a variable drag section controlled by a bimetal thermostatic coil visible from the outside. The most common failure, indeed the only failure I've ever seen, is from the viscous fluid leaking out. Typically this happens over several years and is not noticed because it doesn't leave a nice wet spot. If the unit goes completely dry, the clutch will sometimes seize. More common is that just enough fluid leaks out that the variable side no longer functions. The fan still turns at idle but there is insufficient drive to cool the engine. (sounds like my problem) Generally the seals are still OK and don't need to be replaced. Rebuilding consists of opening the housing, cleaning it and refilling with fluid. Opening the housing involves removing the clutch from the fan and removing the 4 6 mm bolts that hold the housing together. Then gently pry the housing open. There is an O-ring so a little force is needed. There is nothing to fall out and no springs to surprise you :-) Pour out any remaining oil and clean with brake cleaner or something similar. Then completely fill the shaft-side housing with 90 wt gear oil and add about 5 cc of laquer thinner. This slightly swells the rubber in the seals and makes them more leak tite. Make sure all air bubbles are eliminated. Then assemble the housing, replace the bolts and the job is finished. |
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Paul "azopelnut" Heebink
1956 Studebaker Power Hawk 259 V8 1970 GT 12A-Rotary 5-speed 1973 (2) GTs, both 1.9 4-speed 1973 Ascona 4-door 1.9 4-speed A/C 1974 Manta, 1.9 Auto A/C 1975 Sportwagon 1.9 FI 4-speed A/C 1975 Fiat X19 |
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#11 (permalink) |
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Cunning Linguist
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Paul's clutch description
True of most other viscous fan clutches, but not Opels . . . ONLY failure of Opel fan clutch is that the clutch shaft bearing seizes, making it operate the same as a bolted fan blade. Opel clutch has no external thermal coil and cannot be disassembled to repair.
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P ♥ '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 ♥ '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P |
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#12 (permalink) |
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Member 1000 Post Club
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The Opel fan clutch doesn't have the bi-metal spring. Its just provides slip via viscous shear of the torque transfer liquid (heavy silicone ~20,000Cst) that circulates between concentric rings of the rotors. Failure can actually occur in two ways. The first, as Otto described, is by bearing lock up. The second is by the silicone fluid leaking out. In this case the fan would spin freely since there would be no viscous fluid to transfer the torque. The telltale signs would be a real mess and the fan blades freewheeling.
HTH |
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Paul
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#13 (permalink) |
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Describe your problem.
Paul,
In all of the need to definite and explain, we've forgotten to ask you what is occuring in your situation? Does the engine overheat at low speed in stop-and-go driving, at cruise, etc? Please describe the problem and your effrots to date to diagnose the cause. Thanks, |
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#14 (permalink) |
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In moderate Arizona temperatures (45-80) the temp stays in a normal operating temperature both city and hiway driving. In the summer when temps are 100+ and especially when AC is running the temps climb rapidly in town and eventually in hiway driving also. Even shutting the AC off on the hiway only brings the temp down only slightly. My other ascona also with a 3 core, (160 thermostat instead of a 185) and a mechanical fan operates very comfortably in extreme heat so my thought is that my 1975 must have a improperly operating clutch fan.
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Paul "azopelnut" Heebink
1956 Studebaker Power Hawk 259 V8 1970 GT 12A-Rotary 5-speed 1973 (2) GTs, both 1.9 4-speed 1973 Ascona 4-door 1.9 4-speed A/C 1974 Manta, 1.9 Auto A/C 1975 Sportwagon 1.9 FI 4-speed A/C 1975 Fiat X19 |
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#15 (permalink) | |
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Cunning Linguist
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P ♥ '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 ♥ '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P |
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#17 (permalink) | |
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Cunning Linguist
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Water wetter
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P ♥ '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 ♥ '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P |
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#18 (permalink) |
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Thermostat temperature
Paul,
In a hot climate like AZ or TX, the 160 thermostat is the more appropriate year round choice. Typically, the thermostat only begins to open at the indicated temperature and is not fully open until about 10-15 degrees later. Try the 160 degree unit for the '75 and see if the car does not operate cooler on the whole. If the car has a 3-row core, I'd think that it would cool just fine with the 160 thermostat. Good luck. |
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#19 (permalink) |
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Member 1000 Post Club
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75 thermostat
In my 75 Manta, I've never had luck with the standard type thermostats the 74 and old models run vs the 2 stage version. The FI system hates them, It kicks and bucks until the temp rises (if it rises). Also, I've seen these two stage thermostats with two different water passsage diameters. I use the larger of the two which has helped my problems.
I suggest using the correct 2 stage t-stat.... ...A Different Paul Last edited by Paul; 05-11-2005 at 02:34 PM.. |
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Paul
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