Bitter Conversions

[wcelliot]

I just picked up an '85 3.9 automatic with plans of doing a conversion... potentially an LSx/T56 6 speed conversion at some point when time and budget allow for a first class conversion... anyone with any details on such a conversion would be appreciated.

But first I'd like to just convert it to a manual gearbox. What is the bellhousing design on these engines? Will any other bellhousing fit?

(I'd go ahead and adapt a T56 if there were a readily available belhousing that would allow me to do it).... but my second choice would be to fit a stock(ish) Getrag 265... is there any US-source bellhousings for that fitment?)

Thanks!!
Bill

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by wcelliot .... but my second choice would be to fit a stock(ish) Getrag 265... is there any US-source bellhousings for that fitment?) Thanks!! Bill

I believe you'll find this to be the stock fitment!

Harold

[wcelliot]

I know the Bitter used a Getrag 265... I would be using a BMW version (which I understand might differ in detail), but more importantly, where could I most readily source a bellhousing (since I assume the BMW one won't fit)?...

Thanks!
Bill

[oldopelguy]

The bell housing needs to have the same pattern on the engine side as all the regular CIH 4-cylinders used in most of the rest of the Opels. That particular bell housing is not readily available, and particularly not here in the US. No 5-speeds, except those in the Bitters, were ever sold here in the US officially, all the 5-speed transmissions had to be brought over after the fact.

Pretty much you need all the same parts everyone else needs for a 5-speed conversion, except stronger, so you can go with any option you read about here.

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy The bell housing needs to have the same pattern on the engine side as all the regular CIH 4-cylinders used in most of the rest of the Opels. That particular bell housing is not readily available, and particularly not here in the US. No 5-speeds, except those in the Bitters, were ever sold here in the US officially, all the 5-speed transmissions had to be brought over after the fact. Pretty much you need all the same parts everyone else needs for a 5-speed conversion, except stronger, so you can go with any option you read about here.

But the Vega 5spd is reported to fit.

[wcelliot]

So the same bellhousing fits the Opel 6 as fits the 1.9? That's good to know; thanks!

Guess I'm in the market for a Getrag 265 bellhousing then!

Thanks again!
Bill

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by First opel 1981 But the Vega 5spd is reported to fit.

And what year or years was it offered? That has to be only slightly easier to find than the Getrag 265. I did a quick search and did discover that there was a five speed but I'll bet it was only in the last years of production. I did find this ad for a Cosworth.

1976 Chevy Cosworth Vega, V-8, 5 Speed Mint Condition

Why would someone do this? Rhetorical question please don't side track this thread anymore than I just did.

Back to the Getrag 265 question. Didn't someone on the list acquire one from "Nobody"? Wonder if it was ever utilized and if not if it might be available.

Harold

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by wcelliot So the same bellhousing fits the Opel 6 as fits the 1.9? That's good to know; thanks! Guess I'm in the market for a Getrag 265 bellhousing then! Thanks again! Bill

Yes, that is the obvious difference between the two Getrags. The 265 has a separate bellhousing while the smaller 240 bellhousing is integral with the transmission.

Harold

[Gary]

Welcome Bill.

The Bitter 3.9 is a six cylinder version of our CIH's. Same basics with 2 extra cylinders so many of the mechanicals will fit. A few members here own Bitters. I drive an '84 Opel Senator CD 3.0E which is the platform Bitter used.

There is a Bitter group on Yahoo. Someone there may have extra parts. Also Achim Vinson runs a Bitter parts site: VinTeq, Ltd. - Homepage. He may be able to locate one.

[oldopelguy]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr Didn't someone on the list acquire one from "Nobody"? Wonder if it was ever utilized and if not if it might be available. Harold

What "nobody" was peddling was one of the Opel R25 or R28 transmissions, (I'd have to go look) which he thought were 265s but in fact were not. One of those may still be available, it's in my shop, but any buyer would have to do his own research and be willing to get into something with very little information available. If interested, drop me a line.

[wcelliot]

Originally Posted by Gary Welcome Bill. The Bitter 3.9 is a six cylinder version of our CIH's. Same basics with 2 extra cylinders so many of the mechanicals will fit. A few members here own Bitters. I drive an '84 Opel Senator CD 3.0E which is the platform Bitter used. There is a Bitter group on Yahoo. Someone there may have extra parts. Also Achim Vinson runs a Bitter parts site: VinTeq, Ltd. - Homepage. He may be able to locate one.

Thanks much!!

I've applied to join the Yahoo group, but my membership has been "awaiting moderator approval" for a week or more now...

Bill

[wcelliot]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy What "nobody" was peddling was one of the Opel R25 or R28 transmissions, (I'd have to go look) which he thought were 265s but in fact were not. One of those may still be available, it's in my shop, but any buyer would have to do his own research and be willing to get into something with very little information available. If interested, drop me a line.

Isn't the R25/R28 roughly equivalent to the strength of a 240 (meaning for my particualr prupose with the 3.9 it would likely be marginal)? If it would readily handle the torque I'd be interested. (I don't baby my cars... can't wait to get the Bitter on the track!)

Bill

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr And what year or years was it offered? That has to be only slightly easier to find than the Getrag 265. I did a quick search and did discover that there was a five speed but I'll bet it was only in the last years of production. I did find this ad for a Cosworth. 1976 Chevy Cosworth Vega, V-8, 5 Speed Mint Condition Why would someone do this? Rhetorical question please don't side track this thread anymore than I just did. Back to the Getrag 265 question. Didn't someone on the list acquire one from "Nobody"? Wonder if it was ever utilized and if not if it might be available. Harold

Might have meant Chevette 5 speed. But thinking about it....

71-72 Vega 4 speeds are the same as Opel 4 speeds aren't they? 76-77 Vega had a 5 speed option. If the bolt pattern is the same, maybe those will bolt up.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Might have meant Chevette 5 speed. But thinking about it.... 71-72 Vega 4 speeds are the same as Opel 4 speeds aren't they? 76-77 Vega had a 5 speed option. If the bolt pattern is the same, maybe those will bolt up.

The early 3 and 4 speed Vega transmissions were Opel just not exactly the same as what we use in our Opels. I have a 3 speed Vega/Opel transmission mated to an Opel bellhousing that a racer used at some tracks because of a different ratio 2nd gear than the stock 4 speed Opel 4 speed.

I didn't remember the 5 speed option on the later Vega/Astra/(?).

Harold

[Gary]

Early '80's Chevettes had 5 speeds that supposedly fit Opels. They were not offered in CA but they were available in Cars sold on the East coast.

[Phoenix]

The Chevette gas tranmissions do fit the Opel block. Opelspyder put the 5-speed on the spyder, and Oldopelguy had a 4-speed bolted to a Opel block when I swung by his house last year.

Why a Chevette 4 speed? His rational was that it was small enough to possibly fit in the trans tunnel of a car that was originally a 1.1 but converted to a 1.9.