Ford T-5 Adapted into Opel 1.9L?

[Manta Rallier]

Hi all,

AM seriously considering a T5 swap, but definitely do not want to do an S10 or Chevette as the gear ratios are very suboptimal choices for racing/rallying. (The Getrag's are not that good either.) One option is the Ford series units which have a very wide variety of gear sets available, and the 8.5" 2.3L mini-stock racing cluthces can be readily had, with sprung center, puck type clutches.

Has anyone done the adaptation of a Ford bolt patterned T5 to an Opel 1.9L bell housing?

FYI, we're looking at the 2.95-1st/0.83-OD gear set. Any other ideas to get a T5 with this gearset installed would be appreciated too.

Regards !
Mark B.

[Mike Trout]

i am not sure about the swap, but if you need a T-5 i have 3 of them
Mike,

[Manta Rallier]

Thanks Mike, do you know what cars/trucks these are from?

Regards,
Mark B.

[Mike Trout]

Mustang T-5 5 speeds
one is a factory one
one is a World Class T-5
and the other is a borge warner T-5
I do beleive they were all from V8 Cars
5.0 (302)
Mike,

[Manta Rallier]

Sent you a PM, Mike.

[namba209]

Mark, from what I found, putting a T-5 in Willit?, unless you can rig up some kind of shifter adapter, the T-5s for other than an S-10 will have the shifter on the tail shaft housing. The S-10 has it on the rear of the actual tranny case. I'm wondering if you could swap gears on an S-10 for the ratios you want and not have to fab up a shifter adapter?

[blancojp]

Usualy the shifter for an S-10 is further back and it is a long bar that comes up. You can take the shifter assembly out and make a close "S" bend to where the shifter would come up through on the console. Then cut what you don't need and accomodate the Opel shifter on the assembly. Has worked well for us in the past but there is also a shifter that you can use made by Lokar which solves this problem as well.

To adapt a T-5 to the Opel engine is very easy, just find a car that has a bell housing with the TH180-TH200 bolt pattern then modify it to fit the T-5 tranny. As to the gears, you can buy just about any ratio you need and rebuild the T-5 with the new gears. You can also get a T-5 from Bowlder with the gears you want already done for $$$$$.

A good source for transmission swaps would be that crazy dude over at V-8 Archie.

[namba209]

JB, I stand corrected. I just looked at the tranny in Willit? and the shifter is on the tail shaft housing, but it is right up against the tranny case. From what I understand, and I haven't seen other models of the T-5, this is as far forward as any model made. Mine is from a 92 S-10 and has a straight chrome extension screwed onto the shifter lever. The top of the shifter lever has two sets of threads, the upper being 7/16 X 20 1.5 inches long, the lower set appears to be 3/8 X 16 again 1.5 inches long. The lever itself is curved in a mild "C" shape and from the base of the shifter mounting plate to the top of the lever. straight line, is 8.5 inches. There are pics of the lever in my Willit? Update thread, both with the extension installed (post #451) and removed (post #455). The reason for using the S-10 T-5 in my application was from Mike Pilkenton who did the original 60 degree V-6 swap as documented in the OANA website. He found the Camaro engine/tranny he got had the shifter mounted further back on the tailshaft and would require major mods to the tranny tunnel for the Camaro tranny to fit. HTH.

[Manta Rallier]

Originally Posted by namba209 JB, I stand corrected. I just looked at the tranny in Willit? and the shifter is on the tail shaft housing, but it is right up against the tranny case. From what I understand, and I haven't seen other models of the T-5, this is as far forward as any model made. Mine is from a 92 S-10 and has a straight chrome extension screwed onto the shifter lever. The top of the shifter lever has two sets of threads, the upper being 7/16 X 20 1.5 inches long, the lower set appears to be 3/8 X 16 again 1.5 inches long. The lever itself is curved in a mild "C" shape and from the base of the shifter mounting plate to the top of the lever. straight line, is 8.5 inches. There are pics of the lever in my Willit? Update thread, both with the extension installed (post #451) and removed (post #455). The reason for using the S-10 T-5 in my application was from Mike Pilkenton who did the original 60 degree V-6 swap as documented in the OANA website. He found the Camaro engine/tranny he got had the shifter mounted further back on the tailshaft and would require major mods to the tranny tunnel for the Camaro tranny to fit. HTH.

Thanks guys. Yes the shifter location you describe is what I see to be typical: on the tailshaft, right up against the housing. I have estimated that this will move it 3-5" back from the stock 50 series location. IN rallying this type of car before, I recall that the throw in 3rd was a bit long for me, so moving this back would be OK anyway. I was thinking to fix the rest with a modifed shifter, so we'll use that as the plan until we figure out otherwise.

And yeah I see the cost for ready-built unit with the preferred gears is approaching $2k. We'll either have to learn how to work on T-5's or throw the $$ at that part to just get it out of the way. We're modifying so many things for this build that having some known good and fresh parts is a good thing to do.

Thanks!
Mark B.

[calvin]

Don't know and just asking but don't the t-5 weigh a ton and that the reason they are not being used? I think a toyot tacom tran from say a 96-97 2wheel drive truck would be a good fit. I am going to start playing with that.

[namba209]

Calvin, the T-5 I put in Willit?, using my bathroom scales, weighed in at 116 lbs. That included the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and bellhousing. Not what I would consider a ton, but no where near as heavy as the bare Opel 4-speed with the cast iron case. HTH.

[Manta Rallier]

Originally Posted by calvin Don't know and just asking but don't the t-5 weigh a ton and that the reason they are not being used? I think a toyot tacom tran from say a 96-97 2wheel drive truck would be a good fit. I am going to start playing with that.

No not a ton; bare trannie is around 70 lbs or so; total deal is about 30-40 lbs more than stock.

The reason to use this is:
- Good torque capacity: 300+ ft-lbs in lower end current configs, much more available. For hard rallying, where you sometimes change gears 1000-2000 times in a long event, this type of torque capacity (and thus durability) is critical. The orignal Opel trannie works fine for this up to around the 150 HP range, but we expect to go over that, and the stock gear ratios are not too good.
- Gobs of parts now and in the future and prenty of support
- Very good gear ratios for racing: 2.95/1st to .83/OD
- Plentiful 8.5" perfromance clutchs from mini-modified racing

Make sense?
Regards,
Mark B.

[opelnut10]

I have used an S-10 transmission in a GT for four years. Not only is it a lot tougher than the Opel 4 speed but the gear spread is muck better.It is behind a 2.2 putting out 155hp at the flywheel with a Chevette 5 speed bellhousing (hard item to find, but bolts right up to the back of the Opel block) not only have I been pleased with the swap but my highway (above 45MPH) RPM's have dropped with the overdrive 5th gear, my mileage has improved from 23MPG to 28MPG with a 3:67 ring gear and pinion,

[davegt27]

Opelnut10 glad to hear someone else likes the T-5 besides me







http://www.chevytrucks.org/tech/s10t5.htm


Davegt27

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by davegt27 Opelnut10 glad to hear someone else likes the T-5 besides me http://www.chevytrucks.org/tech/s10t5.htm Davegt27

Like I said, if you can get you hands on a Cevette 5 speed bellhousing (gas not Diesel) it is an easy swap and an improvment in the driveability in the Opel. The Chevette T-5 can also be used in a 50 series (manta or ascona). You need an automatic transmission driveshaft for the front yoke and it have to be cut for the right length.

[ddoyle]

i have in possession a 5 speed, removed from a smashed GT. I was told it was from a diesel chevette, as near as we can tell the gear ratios are:
1, 3.76
2, 2.37
3, 1.49
4, 1.0
5, .86

does anyone know haw to tell the difference between the gas and diesel chevette trans? Bellhousing lines up, except for the very top 2 bolt holes are off a bit, any help would be awsome, sure would like to use this

Dan

[opelnut10]

If the bellhousing bolts line up except the two top holes and they are down about 1/2 inch then you have a GAS Chevette bellhousing. The diesel is an Isusu and is all togather differant. You need to fabricate two "Z" brackets and thread the two top Chevette bellhousing bolt, using short bolts, bolt the "Z" brackets to the bellhousing and to the two top boltholes on the block. However the four bolts that line up and the two dowel pins will hold the bellhousing to the back of the block fine.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Manta Rallier No not a ton; bare trannie is around 70 lbs or so; total deal is about 30-40 lbs more than stock. The reason to use this is: - Good torque capacity: 300+ ft-lbs in lower end current configs, much more available. For hard rallying, where you sometimes change gears 1000-2000 times in a long event, this type of torque capacity (and thus durability) is critical. The orignal Opel trannie works fine for this up to around the 150 HP range, but we expect to go over that, and the stock gear ratios are not too good. - Gobs of parts now and in the future and prenty of support - Very good gear ratios for racing: 2.95/1st to .83/OD - Plentiful 8.5" perfromance clutchs from mini-modified racing Make sense? Regards, Mark B.

Makes perfect sense to me!
Only problem is I'm in Europe,
It's not very easy to find a T5 here in France,
But I will work on it!
Hiro

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Hiro Makes perfect sense to me! Only problem is I'm in Europe, It's not very easy to find a T5 here in France, But I will work on it! Hiro

You have more choices in Europe for less money such as Gertrag and ZF the factory Rallye team used the ZF behind the CIH and Walter Rohr behind the wheel and they done alright, I think if I was in Europe I would dance with one of those partners

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 You have more choices in Europe for less money such as Gertrag and ZF the factory Rallye team used the ZF behind the CIH and Walter Rohr behind the wheel and they done alright, I think if I was in Europe I would dance with one of those partners

Unfortunately not so easy here:
Used ZF are prone to problems unless completely rebuilt,
I would not use mine on a torquy 2.7CIH.
Road Getrag as you know have crappy gear ratio,
Race Getrag are out of my financial range...
So as far as you plan to race with 25-30mkg CIHs,
The gearbox becomes limiting.
I know lots of Opel racers here facing the same issue,
So once again I guess salvation will come from you guys!
Hiro

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Hiro Unfortunately not so easy here: Used ZF are prone to problems unless completely rebuilt, I would not use mine on a torquy 2.7CIH. Road Getrag as you know have crappy gear ratio, Race Getrag are out of my financial range... So as far as you plan to race with 25-30mkg CIHs, The gearbox becomes limiting. I know lots of Opel racers here facing the same issue, So once again I guess salvation will come from you guys! Hiro

When I first put togather an Opel Drag car with a CIH 1900 .060 overbore (118 cu.inchs) I broke every piece of the Opel transmission that could be broken. Gear spread was so steep between 2nd and 3rd gear that it just would not take the punishment.I would go to a three day national meet with a transmission in the car and 3 spares (and hope I had enough to last all weekend) I changed so many in that car that my son and I could drop one out and put another in in 12 to 15 minutes with hand tools. I went from a Kadett body to a GT (engine sits back 5 1/2 inchs on the same wheelbase) I went to a Doug Nash 5 speed and narrowed 12 bolt Chevrolet rearend. Lots of choices in ratios and rearend gears, no breakage. Made an adaptor for the back of the block that took a Buick scatter shield(starter bolt to passenger side on the Buick). Best time for the Kadett 14.23 seconds at 94 MPH in a quarter, best time for the GT 13.51 seconds at 101 MPH, must have done something right

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 When I first put togather an Opel Drag car with a CIH 1900 .060 overbore (118 cu.inchs) I broke every piece of the Opel transmission that could be broken. Gear spread was so steep between 2nd and 3rd gear that it just would not take the punishment.I would go to a three day national meet with a transmission in the car and 3 spares (and hope I had enough to last all weekend) I changed so many in that car that my son and I could drop one out and put another in in 12 to 15 minutes with hand tools. I went from a Kadett body to a GT (engine sits back 5 1/2 inchs on the same wheelbase) I went to a Doug Nash 5 speed and narrowed 12 bolt Chevrolet rearend. Lots of choices in ratios and rearend gears, no breakage. Made an adaptor for the back of the block that took a Buick scatter shield(starter bolt to passenger side on the Buick). Best time for the Kadett 14.23 seconds at 94 MPH in a quarter, best time for the GT 13.51 seconds at 101 MPH, must have done something right

Starter bolt to the drivers side just like the CIH unless you have a right hand drive THEN IT IS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE

[Manta Rallier]

Well, if we can get our hands on the bolt pattern or get a trannie in hand, we'll start working on it.

BTW, the world class t-5 wieghs 77 lbs; the later Tremec's are around 100 lbs, so we'll stick with the WC version.

Hiro, I thought I sawy some web pages from England where the T-5 is being used in some race/rally cars. Have you checked on that?

Regards,
Mark B.

[jeff denton]

A Doug Nash five speed and a twelve bolt rearend in a GT? Wow. Incredible overkill, like the 3/4 ton rearend in my S-10.
Hey, what about a series of Lenco planetary boxes? I haven't researched this, but there supposedly is a "street Lenco" system available, much less cost and, therefore, strength, but surely suitable for 200 horsepower Opels?
Wouldn't that be trick!

[opelnut10]

Most racing sanctioning bodies will not allow you to run a lenco. It is 2,3 or more planetary units bolted (stacked) togather. A four or five speed transmission would be very long, you have a shifter for each unit and you can only shift it up (no downshifting unless you are stopped) robs a lot of hp by friction just not a good choice for anything other than straight line racing.Yes Doug Nash and 12 bolt was a bit of overkill but no breakage and proshifted (only need to use the clutch starting and stopping) comes in handy when you are putting it on 7500 RPM and side-stepping the clutch with a set of 10" (sticky) rear tires, you had better have something that will handle that or you will find out very quickly where the "weak link" is.