T-5 interest - Page 5

namba209 · 07-31-2007

What I did on my setup was to make sure the original angle of the engine/tranny packages was the same for both and built my subframes accordingly. Up to 90 MPH there's been no vibes, but the S-10 U-joint does impact the tunnel wall under spirited driving around corners. There's only 1/4" clearance between the front u-joint and the tunnel wall. The guy that built up my shaft guarantees it will not break. The pics are just to show just how short the shaft assembly will be using an S-10 T-5 centered in the console hole. If I do get vibes, I can cure it by using ordinary hose clamps and positioning them around the shaft until the vibe is gone.

davegt27 · 07-31-2007

my drive shaft was short like that also

i took a big hammer to the part of the tunnel that it was hitting (part of it was some seem sealer or something like that)

drove around for several years and never had a problem

i did not use the spring that the stock setup uses

think i topped out around 5200 rpm with .72 overdrive and 205x50x15 tires
edit: 3.67 final drive

David

oldopelguy · 08-03-2007

Well, we had a bit of a change in direction this week, so made a couple steps backwards for the step I made forward. I managed to get my hands on a Ford WC T5, a loaner, and this one in particular has the same input bearing retainer diameter as the s-10 one I have, as well as pretty much the same input shaft length. That means if I get the adapter plate machined with just a bit more metal it should accommodate either. Since this won't add significantly to the machine work, but will add quite a bit to the usefulness, we're going to see about getting one made up here in the next couple weeks. (The lead machinist is on vacation for 10 days or so.) I'll update again when I get some pics.

namba209 · 08-04-2007

That's some good news Stephen. Just for grins and giggles, how close do you think swapping out the tailshaft housing would be on the WC T-5 for the S-10? Knowing the speedo gear or reluctor ring would have to be moved on the WC output shaft.

neuropel · 08-04-2007

Hey Ron,
Have a look at the links below for some info on that problem. It's something I've been looking into as well.

T5tech1

FFCobra Discussion Forums: T5 Modification

Todd

namba209 · 08-04-2007

Yeah Todd, the Camaro/S-10 is a bolt on swap, pretty much, except for the speedo gear/reluctor ring. It looks like the Ford T-5/S-10 may need some machine work. In both swaps the whole tailshaft assembly needs to changed out, specificly for the shifting mechanism, which is what we need to center the shifter in the console hole. From both your linksm it looks like the Camaro T-5 is the way to go, if the input shaft size, pilot bearing, splines and length are the same. Wouldn't that be just great, if they were all the same, but I doubt they are. I think I've got that info in my spreadsheet, if I can get the other computer up and running. All my stuff on Willit? is in it.

yellaopelgt · 08-07-2007

I've found a world class t-5 for sale locally . Says it was rebuilt 1k ago......
600.00 but sure I can get it cheaper. Only problem is that I'm so confused on this whole thing not sure if its a wise move at this point.....

Joe

Nathan Acree · 10-10-2007

Any word on these adapter plates?

oldopelguy · 10-10-2007

The machinist who I had been working with went off and got married or something, and I haven't been able to get down to the shop since he got back.

Plan as of right now is to have it drilled with both the Mustang/Chevy V8 bolt pattern and the older S-10/T10 bolt pattern since the front bearing retainers can be interchanged so either one would register up correctly. The length would be sized for the shorter of the two, the S-10 length, but it shouldn't be a big deal to get the other input shaft cut down if need be.

Nathan Acree · 10-10-2007

Cool.

Keep us updated. Looking forward to dumping the 4speed.

-Nathan

daveegt · 11-12-2007

I have been watching, and I want to get a 5-speed adapter for my GT.What is happening? Is there any progress or drawing tha I could use to make one??

Manta Rallier · 11-14-2007

Stay tuned; we are (still) working on a Ford World Class T5 adapter for our Opel Manta; business has been crazy this year. We are heading down the Ford path because: we want a good, long term supply of proven parts; and, this is for performance (stage rallying) and we want to get a close ratio set gear set, not the stump pulling 1st gear that the S10 T5 has. (Though one an get a clsoe-ratio set for the GM as well.) This will use a 2.3L Ford clutch pack from Zoom rated at 300 HP for the standard Ford 10 spline input shaft; this clutch pack will fit nicely onto the stock Opel flywheel, machined flat like for the S10 clutch, or to the Unorthodox Racing flywheel. As I recall, we are going to swap in the GM output shaft into the trannie to get that spline type; can't recall why at this time.

Clutch pack stack-up, input shaft length, and pilot bearing issues have all been researched and addressed with the adpater plate thickness for the Ford T5. One issue to solve with the Ford input shaft with this is that the pilot shaft diameter is larger the standard Opel pilot shaft diameter, and we may have to turn out the inner diameter on the crankshaft to accept a larger pilot bushing diameter; that is TBD after we see if we can machine a suitably thin wall pilot bushing that will be installable and will last. (We have located a suitable stock, catalog pilot bushing.) Alternatively, we may just turn down the input shaft snout on the Ford shaft to fit the stock Opel pilot bearing. That actually is much easier and does not require any engine related work; it just leaves one with needing to source the stock Opel needle bearing and having a non-standard input shaft, but if you are doing only one for your hobby car, it's not that big a problem.

Throw-out arm lengths are similar, leg pressures will be a bit higher than stock, but within a commonly range, the arm will require a bit of filing on the pivot points (like about 1/32" each), and the Mustang/T5 throw-out bearing is scarily similar to the Opel. We need to still work out an adapter bracket for the stock Opel clutch cable.

The bolt up pattern to the to the apdater plate is different for the Ford vs GM T5's. We have the plate worked out for the Ford T5 and it will in turn bolt up to the stock Opel 1.9L bell housing. Access to the throw-out arm adjust bolt will be 'interesting', I am sure. But, I would prefer to do an installation first to make sure this all works before handing the drawing over to anyone, who would be understandably disappointed if it did not work out.

Shifter positions work out well in the Ascona A / Manta A, dunno about the GT's. Any 'tunnel massaging' is TBD at this time. Fabbing a rear trannie mount is not exactly weekend shade-tree stuff, but is not going to be hard either, based on past experience.

Speedo gears is one area that we have not thought about at all; for a stage rally car, we can calibrate gears and RPM's to a table on the dashboard so this is not a critical item to us. But I can see how it would be for a street Opel.

If there is interest in this particlular conversion, then I could put it up a notch on priority; it is currently behind things like completing the rear axle conversion, the main roll cage fab, and re-designed front suspension. I have thought about making this a purchasable part with clutch, other adapters, etc, if there is enough interest, but have to be careful that this 'hobby' does not get in the way of business or the main hobby of rallying (competing and organizing!).

Regards,
Mark B.

neuropel · 11-14-2007

Earlier in this thread there was discussion of the fact that the Chevette T5 bellhousing (which will fit an Opel CIH) has the Ford T5 bolt pattern. Have you considered this possibility rather than having an adapter plate made?
Also, I believe the Opel pilot bearing is a common item (part number crosses over to a GM or Ford application but I can't recall which), so it might be better to consider machining down the input shaft for the Opel pilot bearing rather than modifying a crank. I have a Chevette bellhousing if you're interested in getting some dimensions.
Which tail housing are you using that matches up well with the Manta/Ascona - perhaps the S-10?
Glad to hear of your progress - please continue to keep us posted!
Todd K.

opelnut10 · 11-14-2007

The 2000-2300 Pinto and Ranger Pickup has the pilot bearing that fits the Opel crank, just don't own up to using Ford parts on a GM car

namba209 · 11-14-2007

Originally Posted by Manta Rallier

We need to still work out an adapter bracket for the stock Opel clutch cable.

Fabbing a rear trannie mount is not exactly weekend shade-tree stuff, but is not going to be hard either, based on past experience.

Speedo gears is one area that we have not thought about at all; for a stage rally car, we can calibrate gears and RPM's to a table on the dashboard so this is not a critical item to us. But I can see how it would be for a street Opel.

Regards,
Mark B.

On Willit? using the S-10 T-5, all I had to do with the throw-out arm was shorten it 1" and put a slot in the end of the arm for the cable to slide out. It already has the socket for the cable end to go in to.

I had to drop a piece of 1" X 2" square tubing 3/4" and 2.5" to the rear for my tranny mount to center the tranny shifter in the hole, and it's the farthest forward shifter used. Of course using an Opel engine and bellhousing, those dimensions could change.

Late model T-5s don't have a mechanical speedo gear, they are set up for electrical speedometers, with a reluctor gear on the output shaft.

Manta Rallier · 11-15-2007

Originally Posted by neuropel

Earlier in this thread there was discussion of the fact that the Chevette T5 bellhousing (which will fit an Opel CIH) has the Ford T5 bolt pattern. Have you considered this possibility rather than having an adapter plate made?
Also, I believe the Opel pilot bearing is a common item (part number crosses over to a GM or Ford application but I can't recall which), so it might be better to consider machining down the input shaft for the Opel pilot bearing rather than modifying a crank. I have a Chevette bellhousing if you're interested in getting some dimensions.
Which tail housing are you using that matches up well with the Manta/Ascona - perhaps the S-10?
Glad to hear of your progress - please continue to keep us posted!
Todd K.

Well, progress is kinda a loose word here; this part of the project has been at this point almost a year! And no issues with Ford and Chevy and Dodge and Toyota parts on this car, we're using all 4!

Thanks to your note and one other, if the bearing is common, then that makes up my mind to just turn down the input shaft. That will make things a LOT easier and better for others wanting to follow this path.

I chose to avoid the Chevette bellhousing as most folks would have problems finding one; we're here in the southern Appalachainans where there are all sorts of old cars laying about and finding the right Chevette bellhousing is a challenge. Adpaters can always be machined from new stock materials.

Gotta look at my notes for the tailshaft, but as I recall, there are specific Ford T5's (from the Mustangs, I recall at this moment, sans notes) that come with the shifter placed <1" from the stock Manta/Ascona locations (with the adapter thickness). The tailshaft is not an issue for me, this rally Manta is getting an early Toyota 8" 4WD P/U rear axle with 4 link suspension + panhard rod, so the driveshaft will be one piece. I can see the tailshaft needing to be shorter if one keeps the stock 2 piece Opel driveshaft. I read about the super short driveshafts some of you have made!

Regards,
Mark B.

Manta Rallier · 11-15-2007

Originally Posted by Manta Rallier

Throw-out arm lengths are similar, leg pressures will be a bit higher than stock, but within a commonly range, the arm will require a bit of filing on the pivot points (like about 1/32" each), and the Mustang/T5 throw-out bearing is scarily similar to the Opel. We need to still work out an adapter bracket for the stock Opel clutch cable.

Uh, like duuuuh, I'm being brain-dead again> Stock Opel bell housing + stock Opel throwout arm = Stock Opel clutch cable with NO adapter

I think I had better get on this before forgetting everything!

Regards,
Mark B.

opelspyder · 11-15-2007

I have run a Chevette 5 Speed T5 Tranny. It came from a gas (not deisel) Pontiac t-1000, or chevette. I do not recall the bellhousing being removable. The transmission seemed to be like an automatic in aspects of the assembly, and I seemed to remeber that the housing was pretty much one piece.. I loved it for the fact that it limited how many places it could leak from. Another note is that the (in a GT) the factory auto trans mount was used and the bolt holes for that crossmember were used as well. The auto driveshaft from the GT was used and the splined nose was cut off on the end about 1-1/2 inches. It felt great all around, in fact I hardly went into 5th as 4th felt over the 1:1 ratio. It will move the shifter back, which I am thinking now in a Kadett, this might be desirable. I will look into that later. I feel this is the most affordable 5 speed, if you don't mind a couple mods. For racing and such it may not be the best choice. You will have to judge. Another bonus...in the Spyder I also modified the flywheel to accept the S-10 Clutch and I did not need to change the adjustment stud on the bellhousing, everything worked great in that aspect. I would have the driveshaft made next time and balanced, as it is short on a GT. I may look into this conversion on the Kadett I will be building later on in the years.
Keith

opelnut10 · 11-16-2007

If it is a gas Chevette/T1000 then you have the right transmisson, it is a two piece setup (seperate bellhouseing/transmission) in a Kadette or 50 series(Ascona/Manta) the stick comes out close enough that with a little tweeking it will work, you can always go to a short throw afermarket shifter (B&M of Hurst) which will help it too. The Chevette transmission has the beat gear spread and will handle 175-180 HP without a problem. If you feel insecure about the two top bellhousing bolts not matching up (the other 4 and the two dowel holes do) then two simple Z brackets will make your mind more at ease. I have used one in a Manta, and one in a GT without any problems. The GT did require the S-10 tailshaft assembly to get the stick in the right place. The S-10 transmission is awful as far as gear ratios, the only T5 other than the Chevette with good gear ratios are the Astro Van (good luck finding one of those).

Manta Rallier · 11-18-2007

Originally Posted by opelnut10

The S-10 transmission is awful as far as gear ratios, the only T5 other than the Chevette with good gear ratios are the Astro Van (good luck finding one of those).

Yes on the S-10 gears; great for a truck; poor for a car. The late Camaro boxes had a low 3's or high 2's 1st gear so would be pretty good for performance, maybe too tall for standard street use. You can swap many or most of the gearsets around if you get the right supporting parts.

Regards,
Mark B.

08-03-2007	#103 (permalink)
oldopelguy Have Opel, Will Travel Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickens, SC Posts: 1,610 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Logbook Entries: 3	more word Well, we had a bit of a change in direction this week, so made a couple steps backwards for the step I made forward. I managed to get my hands on a Ford WC T5, a loaner, and this one in particular has the same input bearing retainer diameter as the s-10 one I have, as well as pretty much the same input shaft length. That means if I get the adapter plate machined with just a bit more metal it should accommodate either. Since this won't add significantly to the machine work, but will add quite a bit to the usefulness, we're going to see about getting one made up here in the next couple weeks. (The lead machinist is on vacation for 10 days or so.) I'll update again when I get some pics.

10-10-2007	#109 (permalink)
oldopelguy Have Opel, Will Travel Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickens, SC Posts: 1,610 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Logbook Entries: 3	nope The machinist who I had been working with went off and got married or something, and I haven't been able to get down to the shop since he got back. Plan as of right now is to have it drilled with both the Mustang/Chevy V8 bolt pattern and the older S-10/T10 bolt pattern since the front bearing retainers can be interchanged so either one would register up correctly. The length would be sized for the shorter of the two, the S-10 length, but it shouldn't be a big deal to get the other input shaft cut down if need be.

11-12-2007	#111 (permalink)
daveegt Opeler Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leesburg, Texas Posts: 16 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	T-5 adapter interest I have been watching, and I want to get a 5-speed adapter for my GT.What is happening? Is there any progress or drawing tha I could use to make one??

11-14-2007	#114 (permalink)
opelnut10 Living in the past Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,197 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	pilot bearing The 2000-2300 Pinto and Ranger Pickup has the pilot bearing that fits the Opel crank, just don't own up to using Ford parts on a GM car

11-15-2007	#118 (permalink)
opelspyder Opel Key Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,063 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Late post in this but... I have run a Chevette 5 Speed T5 Tranny. It came from a gas (not deisel) Pontiac t-1000, or chevette. I do not recall the bellhousing being removable. The transmission seemed to be like an automatic in aspects of the assembly, and I seemed to remeber that the housing was pretty much one piece.. I loved it for the fact that it limited how many places it could leak from. Another note is that the (in a GT) the factory auto trans mount was used and the bolt holes for that crossmember were used as well. The auto driveshaft from the GT was used and the splined nose was cut off on the end about 1-1/2 inches. It felt great all around, in fact I hardly went into 5th as 4th felt over the 1:1 ratio. It will move the shifter back, which I am thinking now in a Kadett, this might be desirable. I will look into that later. I feel this is the most affordable 5 speed, if you don't mind a couple mods. For racing and such it may not be the best choice. You will have to judge. Another bonus...in the Spyder I also modified the flywheel to accept the S-10 Clutch and I did not need to change the adjustment stud on the bellhousing, everything worked great in that aspect. I would have the driveshaft made next time and balanced, as it is short on a GT. I may look into this conversion on the Kadett I will be building later on in the years. Keith

07-31-2007	#101 (permalink)
namba209 6,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 6,033 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	What I did on my setup was to make sure the original angle of the engine/tranny packages was the same for both and built my subframes accordingly. Up to 90 MPH there's been no vibes, but the S-10 U-joint does impact the tunnel wall under spirited driving around corners. There's only 1/4" clearance between the front u-joint and the tunnel wall. The guy that built up my shaft guarantees it will not break. The pics are just to show just how short the shaft assembly will be using an S-10 T-5 centered in the console hole. If I do get vibes, I can cure it by using ordinary hose clamps and positioning them around the shaft until the vibe is gone.

07-31-2007	#102 (permalink)
davegt27 Certified Opelholic Join Date: May 2002 Location: Aurora, CO Posts: 862 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	my drive shaft was short like that also i took a big hammer to the part of the tunnel that it was hitting (part of it was some seem sealer or something like that) drove around for several years and never had a problem i did not use the spring that the stock setup uses think i topped out around 5200 rpm with .72 overdrive and 205x50x15 tires edit: 3.67 final drive David

08-04-2007	#104 (permalink)
namba209 6,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 6,033 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	That's some good news Stephen. Just for grins and giggles, how close do you think swapping out the tailshaft housing would be on the WC T-5 for the S-10? Knowing the speedo gear or reluctor ring would have to be moved on the WC output shaft.

08-04-2007	#105 (permalink)
neuropel Rice Cooker Join Date: May 2002 Location: Spring Church, PA Posts: 1,510 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Hey Ron, Have a look at the links below for some info on that problem. It's something I've been looking into as well. T5tech1 FFCobra Discussion Forums: T5 Modification Todd

08-04-2007	#106 (permalink)
namba209 6,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 6,033 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Yeah Todd, the Camaro/S-10 is a bolt on swap, pretty much, except for the speedo gear/reluctor ring. It looks like the Ford T-5/S-10 may need some machine work. In both swaps the whole tailshaft assembly needs to changed out, specificly for the shifting mechanism, which is what we need to center the shifter in the console hole. From both your linksm it looks like the Camaro T-5 is the way to go, if the input shaft size, pilot bearing, splines and length are the same. Wouldn't that be just great, if they were all the same, but I doubt they are. I think I've got that info in my spreadsheet, if I can get the other computer up and running. All my stuff on Willit? is in it.

08-07-2007	#107 (permalink)
yellaopelgt No....its not a Buick.... Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 961 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	I've found a world class t-5 for sale locally . Says it was rebuilt 1k ago...... 600.00 but sure I can get it cheaper. Only problem is that I'm so confused on this whole thing not sure if its a wise move at this point..... Joe

10-10-2007	#108 (permalink)
Nathan Acree Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Albuquerque New Mexico Posts: 306 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Any word on these adapter plates?

10-10-2007	#110 (permalink)
Nathan Acree Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Albuquerque New Mexico Posts: 306 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Cool. Keep us updated. Looking forward to dumping the 4speed. -Nathan

11-14-2007	#112 (permalink)
Manta Rallier Opeler Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Afton VA Posts: 152 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Stay tuned; we are (still) working on a Ford World Class T5 adapter for our Opel Manta; business has been crazy this year. We are heading down the Ford path because: we want a good, long term supply of proven parts; and, this is for performance (stage rallying) and we want to get a close ratio set gear set, not the stump pulling 1st gear that the S10 T5 has. (Though one an get a clsoe-ratio set for the GM as well.) This will use a 2.3L Ford clutch pack from Zoom rated at 300 HP for the standard Ford 10 spline input shaft; this clutch pack will fit nicely onto the stock Opel flywheel, machined flat like for the S10 clutch, or to the Unorthodox Racing flywheel. As I recall, we are going to swap in the GM output shaft into the trannie to get that spline type; can't recall why at this time. Clutch pack stack-up, input shaft length, and pilot bearing issues have all been researched and addressed with the adpater plate thickness for the Ford T5. One issue to solve with the Ford input shaft with this is that the pilot shaft diameter is larger the standard Opel pilot shaft diameter, and we may have to turn out the inner diameter on the crankshaft to accept a larger pilot bushing diameter; that is TBD after we see if we can machine a suitably thin wall pilot bushing that will be installable and will last. (We have located a suitable stock, catalog pilot bushing.) Alternatively, we may just turn down the input shaft snout on the Ford shaft to fit the stock Opel pilot bearing. That actually is much easier and does not require any engine related work; it just leaves one with needing to source the stock Opel needle bearing and having a non-standard input shaft, but if you are doing only one for your hobby car, it's not that big a problem. Throw-out arm lengths are similar, leg pressures will be a bit higher than stock, but within a commonly range, the arm will require a bit of filing on the pivot points (like about 1/32" each), and the Mustang/T5 throw-out bearing is scarily similar to the Opel. We need to still work out an adapter bracket for the stock Opel clutch cable. The bolt up pattern to the to the apdater plate is different for the Ford vs GM T5's. We have the plate worked out for the Ford T5 and it will in turn bolt up to the stock Opel 1.9L bell housing. Access to the throw-out arm adjust bolt will be 'interesting', I am sure. But, I would prefer to do an installation first to make sure this all works before handing the drawing over to anyone, who would be understandably disappointed if it did not work out. Shifter positions work out well in the Ascona A / Manta A, dunno about the GT's. Any 'tunnel massaging' is TBD at this time. Fabbing a rear trannie mount is not exactly weekend shade-tree stuff, but is not going to be hard either, based on past experience. Speedo gears is one area that we have not thought about at all; for a stage rally car, we can calibrate gears and RPM's to a table on the dashboard so this is not a critical item to us. But I can see how it would be for a street Opel. If there is interest in this particlular conversion, then I could put it up a notch on priority; it is currently behind things like completing the rear axle conversion, the main roll cage fab, and re-designed front suspension. I have thought about making this a purchasable part with clutch, other adapters, etc, if there is enough interest, but have to be careful that this 'hobby' does not get in the way of business or the main hobby of rallying (competing and organizing!). Regards, Mark B.

11-14-2007	#113 (permalink)
neuropel Rice Cooker Join Date: May 2002 Location: Spring Church, PA Posts: 1,510 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Earlier in this thread there was discussion of the fact that the Chevette T5 bellhousing (which will fit an Opel CIH) has the Ford T5 bolt pattern. Have you considered this possibility rather than having an adapter plate made? Also, I believe the Opel pilot bearing is a common item (part number crosses over to a GM or Ford application but I can't recall which), so it might be better to consider machining down the input shaft for the Opel pilot bearing rather than modifying a crank. I have a Chevette bellhousing if you're interested in getting some dimensions. Which tail housing are you using that matches up well with the Manta/Ascona - perhaps the S-10? Glad to hear of your progress - please continue to keep us posted! Todd K.

11-16-2007	#119 (permalink)
opelnut10 Living in the past Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,197 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	T5 transmission If it is a gas Chevette/T1000 then you have the right transmisson, it is a two piece setup (seperate bellhouseing/transmission) in a Kadette or 50 series(Ascona/Manta) the stick comes out close enough that with a little tweeking it will work, you can always go to a short throw afermarket shifter (B&M of Hurst) which will help it too. The Chevette transmission has the beat gear spread and will handle 175-180 HP without a problem. If you feel insecure about the two top bellhousing bolts not matching up (the other 4 and the two dowel holes do) then two simple Z brackets will make your mind more at ease. I have used one in a Manta, and one in a GT without any problems. The GT did require the S-10 tailshaft assembly to get the stick in the right place. The S-10 transmission is awful as far as gear ratios, the only T5 other than the Chevette with good gear ratios are the Astro Van (good luck finding one of those).