T-5 interest

[oldopelguy]

Dave, could you run that program with the 3.44 and 3.18 gears too? In my case I'm after highway cruising as well and the deeper first should make up some for the lower numerical rear. I'd like to see how it actually compares.

Still waiting for word on the adapter themselves. Last news was that the billets were back from the foundry and ready for final machining.

[davegt27]

forgot to change the tire size (my race GT uses 20" tall tires) so these are with 24" tall tires

3.67

ALL GRS, MAX SPEED CURRENT FILE: OPELGT
NOTES: AIR DENS= .07279 HP CF, %= 0 CONV CAP= CLUTCH
GRADE, %= 0 HEADWIND= 0 DRY PRES= 29.263 JET DIA%= 0
PKTQ=133 @ 4900 PKHP=156 @ 7000 ENG FILE: >GT2, 116 CID
GR# RATIO MPH CRRPM TQ HP DWT% SWT% EFF% AERO% ROLL%

1 3.450 51 9040 6 11 50 50 96 40 60
2 1.910 90 8832 22 37 51 49 96 63 37
3 1.310 125 8413 52 84 51 49 96 74 26
4 1.000 151 7758 93 138 52 48 96 79 21
5 .720 152 5623 131 140 52 48 96 79 21


3.44

ALL GRS, MAX SPEED CURRENT FILE: OPELGT
NOTES: AIR DENS= .07279 HP CF, %= 0 CONV CAP= CLUTCH
GRADE, %= 0 HEADWIND= 0 DRY PRES= 29.263 JET DIA%= 0
PKTQ=133 @ 4900 PKHP=156 @ 7000 ENG FILE: >GT2, 116 CID
GR# RATIO MPH CRRPM TQ HP DWT% SWT% EFF% AERO% ROLL%

1 3.450 54 8972 7 12 50 50 96 42 58
2 1.910 95 8739 25 42 51 49 96 65 35
3 1.310 131 8265 60 95 51 49 96 75 25
4 1.000 155 7465 104 148 52 48 96 80 20
5 .720 147 5097 132 128 51 49 96 79 21


3.18 24” tall tire

ALL GRS, MAX SPEED CURRENT FILE: OPELGT
NOTES: AIR DENS= .07279 HP CF, %= 0 CONV CAP= CLUTCH
GRADE, %= 0 HEADWIND= 0 DRY PRES= 29.263 JET DIA%= 0
PKTQ=133 @ 4900 PKHP=156 @ 7000 ENG FILE: >GT2, 116 CID
GR# RATIO MPH CRRPM TQ HP DWT% SWT% EFF% AERO% ROLL%

1 3.450 59 9062 9 15 50 50 96 43 57
2 1.910 102 8673 31 52 51 49 96 65 35
3 1.310 138 8048 73 111 51 49 96 75 25
4 1.000 156 6945 117 154 51 49 96 78 22
5 .720 137 4391 131 109 51 49 96 75 25

[Manta Rallier]

Originally Posted by davegt27 I have a Opel race car that has a Quaife close ratio gear set in it and most people probably would not like it on the street I drove a S-15 T5 in an Opel GT for at least 3 years and there was absolutely no problem you really have to try it

I don't equate 'performance driving' with 'street driving'. So define what you want. After rallying the stock Opel 50 series gears for 15 years, I know how bad the stock ratios can be for real racing...er, performance driving. The S10 gears would be awful.

Regards,
Mark B.

[davegt27]

ok lets try this another way

every one stick with the stock Opel Trans

not trying to tell anyone what to do but trying to put a truck trans in a Opel GT is a bad idea

we should just all accept the 4 speeds that came from the factory

maybe some day the perfect trans will fall out of the sky

JMTCW
David

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Manta Rallier I don't equate 'performance driving' with 'street driving'. So define what you want. After rallying the stock Opel 50 series gears for 15 years, I know how bad the stock ratios can be for real racing...er, performance driving. The S10 gears would be awful. Regards, Mark B.

Agreed Mark, there's a reason all the rally and racing homologations have close ratio trannys! And a close ratio transmission is usually the single most expensive component in a race or rally car, even more than the engine!

Dave makes a good point in that most of us are NOT racing their cars, and as well Ron has pointed out that with enough low end torque, even the mega-wide ratio truck trannys work okay for street use. Not as good with a mild 1.9 however, the truck ratios are worse than the stock Opel 4-speed ratios.

But try that same wide ratio tranny with a 9000 rpm screamer with no low end power and it will be painfully slow.

Bob

[wrench459]

Then theres others who need the gear spacing of the 2.8.
Bottom line for me is..to get a hole shot through the first two gears and hope to hold them off in third. BTW I'm living an dream to race the GT still a small fry.. but I'm having fun!!!!!!

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by wrench459 Then theres others who need the gear spacing of the 2.8. Bottom line for me is..to get a hole shot through the first two gears and hope to hold them off in third. BTW I'm living an dream to race the GT still a small fry.. but I'm having fun!!!!!!

When I was drag racing I ran a stock 1.9 transmission (broke 17 in the last two years I ran the car) with the first gear ratio in the stock transmission and a 4:72 rearend gear and a 23" tall tire I had a total gear ratio of 16.2 to 1. I had to shift the car as soon as I launched it (at the tree, 7200 RPM) and it had a 60 foot time of 1.4. The gear spread between second and third is so wide that usually It broke third gear when it broke, however I have broke every piece that can be broken except the output shaft and the tailshaft housing. The transmission was not made to put behind 185 HP and side step the clutch with a pair of sticky racing slicks on the rear, but I was also having fun I would go to a nation event (3 day) with a transmission in the car and 2 spares and hope I had enough to make it through the weekend. We got so adapt at changing transmissions that my son and myself could change one out in less than 15 minutes. The point being if you are going to drive your car on the street with a slightly modified engine (150HP or less) the stock transmission will be fine, if you want a 5 speed and have the bucks to spend the 240 that OGTS sells as a kit is the easiest way to go, if you choose to go with a T5, just be prepared to do some fabrication (or pay someone else to do it) the big advantage is the ease of finding parts for the transmission and have an OD 5th gear for the highway.

[davegt27]

another bad thing about the T-5 is the weight

thing must weigh 70 lbs

also no one mentioned short throw shifter for the T-5 is there such a thing?

so there is a downside to almost everything

Opel nut what was your 1/4 mile if I revved my 1.5 head to 7,000 rpm (which I did at a few autocross) I would have to get out and adj the valves before I went home

I did manage to get the GT down to 17.3 with a Rally Bob ported head and the T-5, 3.67, 205X50X15 tires

1.4 short time sounds pretty quick

also if you give me your trap speed I can backward engineer with the program I have

Davegt27

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by davegt27 another bad thing about the T-5 is the weight thing must weigh 70 lbs also no one mentioned short throw shifter for the T-5 is there such a thing? so there is a downside to almost everything Opel nut what was your 1/4 mile if I revved my 1.5 head to 7,000 rpm (which I did at a few autocross) I would have to get out and adj the valves before I went home I did manage to get the GT down to 17.3 with a Rally Bob ported head and the T-5, 3.67, 205X50X15 tires 1.4 short time sounds pretty quick also if you give me your trap speed I can backward engineer with the program I have Davegt27

The best the car ever ran was 14.28 at 94MPH in the quarter mile, yes a 1.4 second 60 foot time is very good for 118 cubic inches at 2125 pounds,(with the driver) but is was sure hard on driveline parts

[davegt27]

best i can do for now

PERFORMANCE ANALYZER (C) Copyright 1991 PERFORMANCE TRENDS, INC
MAX ACCELERATION PERF CURRENT FILE: RACEKADETT
NOTES: AIR DENS= .07279 HP CF, %= .84 CONV CAP= CLUTCH
GRADE, %= 0 HEADWIND= 0 DRY PRES= 29.263 JET DIA%= .18
PKTQ=121 @ 4900 PKHP=142 @ 7000 ENG FILE: RACEKADDET, 118 CID
GR# SEC MPH GS FEET CRPM ERPM TQMLT EFF% %DWT %SWT

1 -.27 0.0 .71 -1 0 7200 1.00 0 76 24
RO 0.00 4.1 .71 0 980 7200 1.00 12 76 24
1 .50 11.9 .71 6 2821 7200 1.00 35 76 24
1 1.00 19.7 .71 17 4658 7200 1.00 58 76 24
1 1.50 27.4 .49 35 6488 7200 1.00 81 74 26
1-2 1.93 32.1 .44 54 7606 7606 1.00 90 74 26
2 2.13 32.1 .44 63 4790 4790 1.00 90 74 26
2 2.50 35.7 .44 81 5326 5326 1.00 90 74 26
2 3.00 40.5 .43 109 6040 6040 1.00 90 74 26
2 3.50 45.0 .40 141 6719 6719 1.00 90 73 27
2 4.00 49.2 .35 176 7341 7341 1.00 90 73 27
2-3 4.43 52.3 .29 207 7804 7804 1.00 90 72 28
3 4.63 52.3 .29 223 4950 4950 1.00 90 72 28
3 5.00 54.6 .29 252 5173 5173 1.00 90 72 28
3 5.50 57.8 .28 293 5469 5469 1.00 90 72 28

SUMMARY: E.T. = 14.27 MPH = 96.7 FEET = 1320

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 When I was drag racing I ran a stock 1.9 transmission (broke 17 in the last two years I ran the car) with the first gear ratio in the stock transmission and a 4:72 rearend gear and a 23" tall tire I had a total gear ratio of 16.2 to 1. I had to shift the car as soon as I launched it (at the tree, 7200 RPM) and it had a 60 foot time of 1.4. The gear spread between second and third is so wide that usually It broke third gear when it broke, however I have broke every piece that can be broken except the output shaft and the tailshaft housing.

Opelnut whats the trick to keep the side and spider gears alive?
All I need to do is drop the tire pressure to 10 psi and there history.
So far no ring and pinion failures..beginners luck I suppose.
Off topic sorry....But it sure is fun driving the Hondas crazy on the bottom end too bad they get revenge on the top end. Maybe I need to rethink my strategy on the gearing.

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by wrench459 Opelnut whats the trick to keep the side and spider gears alive? All I need to do is drop the tire pressure to 10 psi and there history. So far no ring and pinion failures..beginners luck I suppose. Off topic sorry....But it sure is fun driving the Hondas crazy on the bottom end too bad they get revenge on the top end. Maybe I need to rethink my strategy on the gearing.

Only one trick works, weld them up. I broke one set and when I installed the new one I add about 1/2 pound of welding rod to them and never broke another set. It is kinda hard to run a locked rearend on the street because they don't go around corners very well but that is the trick for a straight line car. After I welded them I never broke another, however I did break an axle after a couple of years abuse but they are nowhere near as bad to change as the spider gears.

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by wrench459 Opelnut whats the trick to keep the side and spider gears alive? All I need to do is drop the tire pressure to 10 psi and there history. So far no ring and pinion failures..beginners luck I suppose. Off topic sorry....But it sure is fun driving the Hondas crazy on the bottom end too bad they get revenge on the top end. Maybe I need to rethink my strategy on the gearing.

My main foe was a guy from South Carolina with a Pinto with a 2000 in it. However he spent a lot of money and effort trying to get by me, to no avail. I was never beat for class and also never lost the record until I quit racing the car. He came to Rockingham, NC with a Roush head and a 5 speed transmission and was going to do me in, well he went home early because I put 3 car lengths on him for the class win He sold the car and started running another class, I made it a point to make sure I nudged the record of Friday and got the car certified by the tech people and the motor sealed at the tear down for the record. That way on Saturday I only had to pass weight a fuel check and have them look to see the motor was still sealed.

[davegt27]

watch out if you do two post in a row they read you the riot act

this is NHRA bracket racing?

my GT did a 14.9 and weighed 2050 with a fat driver ha ha

the 5.28 final drive meant i was done shifting 3/4 way down the track

Davegt27

[Manta Rallier]

Originally Posted by davegt27 Opel nut what was your 1/4 mile if I revved my 1.5 head to 7,000 rpm (which I did at a few autocross) I would have to get out and adj the valves before I went home

This, I wanna figure out. Sorry for the threadjack, but this really caught my eye. With stock hydraulic lifters and valves, heavy single valve springs, and the highest lift cam Isky ever made for the 1.9L (.480 lift I recall), we regularly wound out the engine to 7700 rpm and sometimese over 8000 rpm, with never a hint of valve float. (And I mean thousands of times over 7500 rpm....) So what was effecting your valve train at 7000 rpm on the 1.5L head?

Interesting,
Mark B.

[Manta Rallier]

Originally Posted by davegt27 another bad thing about the T-5 is the weight thing must weigh 70 lbs

That IS a factor for racing (drag, road, rally) but an extra 30-40 lbs on the street I would not personally worry about.

Originally Posted by davegt27 also no one mentioned short throw shifter for the T-5 is there such a thing?

Yes; one example here: Mustang Short Throw Shifter

Originally Posted by davegt27 so there is a downside to almost everything

You did not mention that the T5 hangs a few inches lower under the car than the stock trannie (and presumably the 240). Not a big deal for street at all, but could be a factor in some forms of racing.

The T-5 offers much better gearing options for racing or street, can be cheap, plenty of parts for a long time to come, and flexible. So there are good reasons to consider it. But 'til a good kit is available for an Opel, it will nto be for a person who just has bolt-on skills. I think that is one goal for guys like OldOpelGuy, and I appreciate his efforts.

Regards,
Mark B.

[davegt27]

Originally Posted by Manta Rallier This, I wanna figure out. Sorry for the threadjack, but this really caught my eye. With stock hydraulic lifters and valves, heavy single valve springs, and the highest lift cam Isky ever made for the 1.9L (.480 lift I recall), we regularly wound out the engine to 7700 rpm and sometimese over 8000 rpm, with never a hint of valve float. (And I mean thousands of times over 7500 rpm....) So what was effecting your valve train at 7000 rpm on the 1.5L head? Interesting, Mark B.

when i took the 1.5 head in to have 1.9 valves installed the guy called me and asked what i wanted for seat pressure i said heck i don't know make it 10lbs above stock--maybe that was it.

i also had my oil pump shimmed pretty good not sure if it was of the top of the Hyd lifter punching through the metal retainer

don't remember any valve float just the nuts would loosen up and i would have to get out and tighten them back up (pretty common)

also don't remember the T-5 hanging down to far

http://www.opelgt.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=4942

http://www.opelgt.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=4971

David

[Manta Rallier]

Originally Posted by davegt27 when i took the 1.5 head in to have 1.9 valves installed the guy called me and asked what i wanted for seat pressure i said heck i don't know make it 10lbs above stock--maybe that was it. i also had my oil pump shimmed pretty good not sure if it was of the top of the Hyd lifter punching through the metal retainer don't remember any valve float just the nuts would loosen up and i would have to get out and tighten them back up (pretty common) also don't remember the T-5 hanging down to far http://www.opelgt.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=4942 http://www.opelgt.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=4971 David

As I recall, keeping the rocker nut and rocker stud threads new and good was important. Maybe you had loose nuts.....metaphoricaly speaking of course......We had no real problems with the stock studs and parts, but did make sure they had good threads and that the crimped nuts had a good amount of 'drag' on them when they were turned. I would toss out any that got easier to turn than normal. Oil pressures were always set to 60 psi max cold, so maybe that helped avoid lifter pumping...excect for that one time we were unknowingly at 100 psi....and the oil all pumped into the head and left the crank dry....learned a lesson there!

Good pix for folks who have not see the trannie comparison; thanks. For street the T5 underhang is not any big deal. For rally, it is something we have to keep in mind, when going over berms on those nasty, unwanted 'off-road' excursions.

Regards,
Mark B.