5spd vs Auto

[Betta Carotene]

Can anyone help me out on the decision between an auto and 5pd. For the auto I was thinking of high stall converter(4k) and shift kit to make up for the larger camshaft(230@.050). My kadett has 3.18's. Would the high stall make it a putter until it catches up?The Manual would obviously be a getrag. Now this is in terms of perfromance. If I can get the same acceleration out of a auto as a 5pd I want to keep the auto. Does anyone have any know how or experience with these two transmissions? Thanks

[benncojr]

For off the line performance you can not beat the standerd transmission (5speed). The auto will alwas have some lag between the time you put your foot to the floor and the time the car jumps. If I wanted performance I would go with the 5 speed. If I was driving the car everyday in traffic I would go with the auto.

But that is me. You have to make your owen mind up!!

[layed521]

Everyday comuter not not I'd prefer a manual over an auto. Some of the newer cars do have very nice autos in em, but still I always have & always will enjoy the shifting.

[namba209]

Alan, personal opinion, I manually shift my monza with a beefed up TH 350. I had the option of a high speed stall convertor, but opted for the standard convertor. I want it locked up as soon as possible, so there is no slippage at low speeds/rpm. It's not a dragster that I need to run up the rpm before I slip my foot off the brake. Then again, it all depends on if you drink coffee or soda while driving, if so, then it's kinda hard to shift and hole the soda or coffee when you shift gears. I prefer having the 5-speed in Willit? and may go that route in the monza too. IDK.

[markandson]

Real drivers don't automatics, nuff said

[GTJIM]

Your biggest performance killer is gonna be the diff gears. With a 'hot' cam and those the auto is going to struggle and the 5-speed will be at over-drive gearing .. before you shift into 5th.
You need at least 3.9:1 gears with a 4-speed OD auto or the Getrag and that cam you have.
"Hot" cams and the wrong diff gearing are a PIA - the 3-speed auto will just make it worse. IMHO

[RallyBob]

A 3000 rpm converter with 3.67 rear axles and that cam will go quite nicely. It will launch pretty darn hard, and will be far easier on the driveline than a 5 speed. I have run numerous Opels with big cams and high stall converters with automatics. For in-town driving it's a tough combo to beat. However, for the highway, it pretty much sucks. A 3000 rpm high-stall converter doesn't 'slip' constantly at 3000 rpms as many people think, but under load it will flash up and it will still make for higher rpm cruising speeds, and therefore lower gas mileage. If you do any amount of highway driving, go with the Getrag. If you do all in-town commuting, the automatic in an Opel with a decent converter is tough to beat.

Bob

[Betta Carotene]

hmmmmm most of the driving I do is in town, but would like to use it for road trips too. Stock tire and 3.18 with cruise 70mph at 3300 rpms...not bad. With 3.67 gears it will be turning close to 3800rpms . Getrag would be 2650rpms. Getrag with 3.67 would be 3055rpms. Would the use of 14" tires bring the rpms down some? BTW anyone have a set of 3.67 gears?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Betta Carotene hmmmmm most of the driving I do is in town, but would like to use it for road trips too. Stock tire and 3.18 with cruise 70mph at 3300 rpms...not bad. With 3.67 gears it will be turning close to 3800rpms . Getrag would be 2650rpms. Getrag with 3.67 would be 3055rpms. Would the use of 14" tires bring the rpms down some? BTW anyone have a set of 3.67 gears?

With a high-stall converter the rpms will be about 300-400 higher than with a manual transmission, due to the lack of a lock-up converter.

[Betta Carotene]

Originally Posted by RallyBob A 3000 rpm converter with 3.67 rear axles and that cam will go quite nicely. It will launch pretty darn hard, and will be far easier on the driveline than a 5 speed. I have run numerous Opels with big cams and high stall converters with automatics. For in-town driving it's a tough combo to beat. However, for the highway, it pretty much sucks. A 3000 rpm high-stall converter doesn't 'slip' constantly at 3000 rpms as many people think, but under load it will flash up and it will still make for higher rpm cruising speeds, and therefore lower gas mileage. If you do any amount of highway driving, go with the Getrag. If you do all in-town commuting, the automatic in an Opel with a decent converter is tough to beat. Bob

If forced induction is used....will the axle ratio still be a major factor? Could 3.18's still be kept? Are the 3.18's one of the stronger gears due to a smaller amount of teeth? If F/I is used then there would also be no use for a high stall converter unless a bigger cam is used wich would be most unlikely.

[jordan]

Originally Posted by Betta Carotene If forced induction is used....will the axle ratio still be a major factor? Could 3.18's still be kept? Are the 3.18's one of the stronger gears due to a smaller amount of teeth? If F/I is used then there would also be no use for a high stall converter unless a bigger cam is used wich would be most unlikely.

EFI doesn't like very radical cams, in fact it can hurt fuel economy, drivability, and HP.

[baz]

as jordan said if you go to a radical cam the EFI gets upset as it is set up for 1 cam and 1 cam only
to use EFI with a radical cam it needs a new chip mapping to match the injection to the cam or a programable ECU so it can be set up to match on a rolling road session

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by RallyBob A 3000 rpm converter

what is this?? what does it do?? are there other kinds as wel?? how do I recognize the difference???

sorry if I'm hijacking here

[Betta Carotene]

Originally Posted by baz as jordan said if you go to a radical cam the EFI gets upset as it is set up for 1 cam and 1 cam only to use EFI with a radical cam it needs a new chip mapping to match the injection to the cam or a programable ECU so it can be set up to match on a rolling road session

I will take that as keep the 3.18's with it! thanks guys

[Zdaz]

Depending on the automatic of your choise of course, but from my own experience i can tell that getrag is much better, more reliable and takes much more HP than automatic... Plus, if something brakes, its much cheaper to get the manual in the condition again.

[GTJIM]

Keep watching this space - there are a couple of 'KILLER' auto gearbox Opels in the planning stages.

1) Tri-Matic - The TH180 GT auto box has been used in the 3.0L 12v six-cylinder Opels and even Rover V8's Plus it is extensively used in 4,6 & 8 cylinder Holdens, so it can hack the pace.

2) Quadra-Matic - The Aisin-Warner 4-speed overdrive auto is another magic auto that has been used behind 6-cylinder Opels (same bellhousing as the 4-cylinders ....)
Try a Turbo Isuzu Impulse with this 4-speed,overdrive, lock-up convertor auto and it will make you a Believer too!

[azopelnut]

Originally Posted by GTJIM Try a Turbo Isuzu Impulse with this 4-speed,overdrive, lock-up convertor auto and it will make you a Believer too!

Hello Jim
Are you saying that a Impulse auto will bolt right up to our 1.9's???

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by azopelnut Hello Jim Are you saying that a Impulse auto will bolt right up to our 1.9's???

No - unfortunately. The Impulse ones you have over there for both the turbo and non-Turbo have the starter motor on the wrong side and the bellhousing is different. Toyotas also use this trans. They could be modified and adapted.
Some of the non-Turbo ones do not have lock-up in top gear.

Also Opel used this trans on some Monza and Senator models in the mid to late 1980's though I don't REALLY want to take the one out of my Monza.
It works very well - the chop down from 4th lock-up to 2nd gear when the pedal is put to the metal just about lifts the front wheels..!

However, the DOHC Isuzu Piazzas that were domestic market only got imported to New Zealand in small numbers 2nd hand ... have the stater on the opposite side (the same side as the Opel). Consequently, I have a couple of DOHC Piazza ones that look good prospects for fitting with an adaptor plate.

The Piazza my Best Lady drives is auto as well and is very impressive with just 90 hp and about 500lbs more weight than a GT..........