Looking for input on a new buy

[Supermantfl]

I'm looking at a 73' gt and drueling...

before i buy this thing i'd like to know what it is going to take to make the guts match the outside of the car... if you know what i mean.
I've had some porsche 944's and 914's but this is looking quite different. I will be looking to upgrade/swap the motor quickly. Any ideas?

What motors are the best bet?
Anyone swapped before and have advice to give? I'd love that. Thank heavens for blogs!

[namba209]

As far as engine swaps, check out the engine swap forum on the site. Best bet for minimal, read that to mean no sheetmetal mods, you can rebuild what you're getting, or go with anything up to a 2.4L Opel CIH engine. General consensus from those in the know is that anything over about 175 HP will need a new drivetrain. The weakest link on the Opels is the axles and torque tube. The Opel is by no means a slouch, but it's not a rocket either. In good tune, 100 mph is attainable, but where you gonna go that fast legally? Read through the performance forum too, for some ideas on increased hp. HTH.

[Motor Mouth]

I would highly recommend a 2.4 upgrade. I took my GT to Le Mans in 2005 and whilst staying on a campsite away from the track I took several other classic car owners out for a quick spin...............the people most suprised where the 911 owners especially when leaving a junction sideways

[Supermantfl]

that's amazing.. how much does a 2.4 cost... where do i find one?

all the info you have would be amazing...

PS: i tried the engine swap forum and it was a jumble... i'm just trying to sort...


any other engine sizes work well?

[Motor Mouth]

Over here you can pick up a stock 125ps 2.4lump for around $500, it may need reconditioning at that price through.

I daren't say how much mine cost incase the wife logs in to check my activity!

However the set up is:
Block
I used a 2.2 block.
4 counter weight crank (norm is 8 counter weight)...mine is 14lbs lighter
Lotus Carlton Conrods
Mahle flat-top pistons with valve cut-out enlarged.
Lightweight flywheel
6 Bolt clutch

Head
2.2 Head skimmed to increase compression to 10.5:1
Ports polished and ported
Valves enlarge to 46/41mm
OP244 cam
Solid lifters
Sprint Manifold to 2.5" Exhaust

Engine Management
Cut down 3.0litre plenum utilising a bigger throttle body
Emerald Mapable ECU

Hope that helps a little and wets your appetite

[Supermantfl]

it does....

thats a lot to do... ha ha

congrats... i'd like someone to make a turnkey drop in...lol this is gonna be fun

[namba209]

A turnkey drop in will not be cheap, unless you go with a CIH complete engine. There are lots to do with the engine you have. You can make it a 2.0L, but it won't be cheap. Or you can take a 2.4L and put the FI on it, or go with twin side draft webers. But no matter which way you go it will be expensive. My suggestion, get the car fully operational, roadwise and drive it for a while, as you go through all the posts on upgrading the engine or checking out the swap forum. You're right it is a jumble of threads, but there is a lot of insight on what it takes to make the GT go faster. Once you've done that, the next thing is to make it stop better. So for now enjoy what you've got, get used to how it perfroms now, so that when you do whatever you decide, you'll have a benchmark to go by.

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by Supermantfl it does.... thats a lot to do... ha ha congrats... i'd like someone to make a turnkey drop in...lol this is gonna be fun

Your best bet for a 2.4L drop in is to convert your 1.9 into a 2.4. Search the archives for this conversion and you'll have lots of information. It's the most cost-effective way to get the 2.4L displacement and it drops right back in. You will need to upgrade other parts of your drivetrain though (and especially your brakes) so be prepared to $pend $ome ca$h. If you decide to go with a 2.2L or 2.4L from Europe (they never made it to the US), get ready to drop $2K-$3K between purchase and shipping for a complete engine (of unknown condition) - however if you go that route you have some nice options for further build up. You can play it safe and get a 2.2 or 2.4 from Opel GT Source as well (not sure of the cost these days). If you're willing to do some fabrication, you might also consider a 16V 2.0 Opel engine (also available through OGTS). As Ron pointed out, most Opel owners don't consider these options as cheap, but realize that most Opel owners are usually cheapskates so relative to what many other car hobbyists pour into their cars these ARE pretty reasonable alternatives.

Todd

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Supermantfl it does.... thats a lot to do... ha ha congrats... i'd like someone to make a turnkey drop in...lol this is gonna be fun

There is no "turn key" GT stuff - most anything needs to be custom built once you stray away from the standard 1.9 litre motor.
However these motors can be upgraded relatively easily - once you know the tricks ... and here is the place to find them.

The Opel Cam-In-Head 4-cylinder motor has been produced since 1965 and right through to 1994-ish in several production sizes between 1.5 and 2.4 litres. There were also 2.5 to 4.0 litre 6-cylinder versions.
It is almost the 'small block Chevy' of Germany with many millions having been made. In the U.S.A. only the 1.9 litre motor is originally used in GTs with two versions - the early hi-compression motor of 1969-70 and the lo-compression motor of 1971-73.

Some 2.0L 2.2L and 2.4L 2nd hand motors have been imported there along with Getrag 5-speed gearboxes. This set-up is what you need for bolt in performance. See: Opel GT Source --- Welcome

Some people have used both 60-degree and 90-degree V6 motors but very few are properly completed. Even V8s have been fitted but only a minute number of those have been successfully completed. Lots of cost and time involved - nothing is bolt in or turn key.

The Opel GT is one of the last true "Hot Rod" projects with owner installed and prepared modifications.

[Supermantfl]

you guys are amazing.. thanks for all the help!

I do like the idea of keeping the 1.9 is has... what kind of output is it able to produce?

is it like my porsches have been, where you can simply toss your old american pistons in favor of euro pistons to raise compression and jump the hp? is supercharging an option on the 1.9?

college student here so i'm looking for the most bang for my buck... when i graduate however she will be brought back to her old beauty from her birth

[namba209]

Yeah, you can swap the dished top pistons for flat tops and increase the HP, drop in a cam, but, with an engine as old, probably, as yours, it would be a good idea to go with a total rebuild, just to make sure everything will stay together. On a college budget, that may be too expensive, hence my suggestion to get it roadworhy and enjoy it. Afterwards, go for what you want. As an example, my Willit? project is six years in the works and getting real close to being finiished. Of course I had a total restoration going on with the engine swap too. A lot of time, custom fabrication, and a whole lot of bucks went in this and I'm still not done, close, but not done. But, when I get behind the wheel, as I've been able to this year, it's a pure blast. To some it may not seem worth it, but to see the face of a Z car driver turn pale.......Priceless!!!

[k1400]

Originally Posted by namba209 ...... but there is a lot of insight on what it takes to make the GT go faster. Once you've done that, the next thing is to make it stop better.

Sorry, that just made me laugh! Now that's my kind of thinking: go fast FIRST.... worry about how to stop later.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by k1400 Sorry, that just made me laugh! Now that's my kind of thinking: go fast FIRST.... worry about how to stop later.

Yeah, you made me think about that. Maybe I should have put it in perspective. I know my GT will stop, just like it did new, but the thing is to make it stop better/faster than that, if I need to. I can lock up all four wheels as it is now, but that may not be good enuff, sliding tires don't stop as good as a rolling tire under a panic situation. So the idea is not to get into that scenario. If, when I get my car reliable and I find I need more braking power, then a brake upgrade will be the next logical step, and it won't be as time consuming and costly as the restoraion and engine /tranny swap was.

[bigben]

There is plenty of fun to be had on a college budget. I bought my GT 12 years ago when I was in highschool and had just barely gotten my drivers license. It was a basket case, literally. It had been sitting for 8 years. All of the lights and many other parts were sitting inside the car in boxes and tubes. The car was half a dozen different shades of paint and primer, mice had tried to rewire the dash, the tires were flat and the brakes where locked up. We hooked up a battery and dumped a little gas down the carb and the old car rumbled to life. I was hooked from then on. I offered the guy $200 and had to pay another $45 to have it winched on to a flatbed and towed home. Within one month I had my GT on the road and looking pretty good, not real fast but a lot of fun to drive. My brother got it up to 110 mph without anything being done to the motor besides a tune up. I agree with what has been said already. Get it running the best that you can right now and just have fun with it. When your ready to start tinkering with it I would start by helping the motor to breath better and maybe doing an ignition upgrade. You can still get a lot of the parts you may need from your local auto parts store but it may require some extra research on your part...their listings are not always correct. For example you may ask for a set of points and they will tell you that they are not available but if you ask for points for an old VW bug, (which are the same - bosch) they'll hand you a set for 5 bucks. In order to be frugal you'll have to be creative.

[Supermantfl]

thanks for the help.

I really do like this car. I'm kinda excited about some of the body kits i found also... they are not that expensive and some look amazing. I wish i had gotten an opel instead of my porsche long ago.

the exhaust is not the dual tips i've seen on normal gt's. it has a small single pipe... like toyota carolla stock size... i'm curious why thats there.

[Motor Mouth]

Originally Posted by Supermantfl you guys are amazing.. thanks for all the help! I do like the idea of keeping the 1.9 is has... what kind of output is it able to produce?

I'm sure when Rallybob joins in you'll get a definative answer but from my recollection back in the 70's the big tuners.....Irmscher / Conrero where getting 180-190 bhp, but these are race engines we're talking about..........so that would be a rebuild every 200miles......that could work out more costly than building a 2.4 in the long run

[jeff denton]

Well, Ron, if I know you, your version of "brake upgrade" will be an ABS system. Mark my words. Or, I Double Dog Dare You. Actually it might be simpler than trying to get a stock tach to work with fuel injection!

[Supermantfl]

btw


if anyone knows anyone searching for an opel i know someone selling a 73 yellow for $2500

i dunno if thats a good price or anything but it looks pretty good. i have pictures!

[namba209]

Originally Posted by jeff denton Well, Ron, if I know you, your version of "brake upgrade" will be an ABS system. Mark my words. Or, I Double Dog Dare You. Actually it might be simpler than trying to get a stock tach to work with fuel injection!

Jeff, you put way too much faith in my mechanical abilities. But, I think an anti-skid system would be neat. All I gotta do is find a small jet aircraft with a segmented rotor multi-disc setup up that would fit within the confines of a 13" wheel and still have the correct spacing. Use the anti-skid generators from the system for all four wheels to control and operate the system, then find a hydraulic pump and reservoir that could be driven by the engine and put out 3000 psi and I'd be all set. Simple.

[ungermm]

Originally Posted by bigben In order to be frugal you'll have to be creative.

You got it. Opelers are always thought of being cheap instead of the creative minds we really are. I personally enjoy trying to figure something out instead of taking it in and paying someone else to fix it. Although this philosophy doesn't include trying to use that broken guitar wire that I've saved for years and pliers to straighten my daughters teeth instead of paying 3K to an orthodontist. But, I did have my daughter worried for a minute. Jerry

[Motor Mouth]

Originally Posted by ungermm You got it. Opelers are always thought of being cheap instead of the creative minds we really are. I personally enjoy trying to figure something out instead of taking it in and paying someone else to fix it. Although this philosophy doesn't include trying to use that broken guitar wire that I've saved for years and pliers to straighten my daughters teeth instead of paying 3K to an orthodontist. But, I did have my daughter worried for a minute. Jerry

Jerry you're not far off the truth there.

Several years ago on a GT trip to Europe with 5GT's in convoy one of the guys had a hub bearing case failure. Of course there was no point phoning for the AA (rescue association) to come and get him, so.....we repaired it with a Coke Can!