Classic 2.4L Swap

[Gumby]

Here are some pictures of the gear cluster in my 4 speed. The shifter also has a short throw modification to it.

The automatic flywheel was replaced with a billet steel flywheel setup (Thanks Opelnut!) with a 6 bolt pattern for the clutch/pressure plate.

Question! Will the original bolts used to hold in the automatic flywheel work with a standard manual flywheel or should I say is there any difference in length between these bolts and the bolts used on an engine that wasn't an automatic? I am concerned that the bolts aren't long enough!

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Gumby Here are some pictures of the gear cluster in my 4 speed. The shifter also has a short throw modification to it. The automatic flywheel was replaced with a billet steel flywheel setup (Thanks Opelnut!) with a 6 bolt pattern for the clutch/pressure plate. Question! Will the original bolts used to hold in the automatic flywheel work with a standard manual flywheel or should I say is there any difference in length between these bolts and the bolts used on an engine that wasn't an automatic? I am concerned that the bolts aren't long enough!

The automatic Flywheel bolts are shorter than the 4 speed bolts, if you use after-market bolts make sure they are at least grade 10 or better and that they have the small shoulder. Also check the pilot bearing in the end of the crank and I would replace it with a new one, OGTS should have it, or you can use a ford 2000 (pinto) bearing, it fits perfect (Your welcome, enjoy it, it is a small piece of history)

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 The automatic Flywheel bolts are shorter than the 4 speed bolts, if you use after-market bolts make sure they are at least grade 10 or better and that they have the small shoulder. Also check the pilot bearing in the end of the crank and I would replace it with a new one, OGTS should have it, or you can use a ford 2000 (pinto) bearing, it fits perfect (Your welcome, enjoy it, it is a small piece of history)

Thanks for the info! I ended up turning down the washer to fit the steel fly because the original fly didn't have the tapper in the face. I'm assuming you had a manual machinist make the flywheel? I don't know the exact alloy but I agree with you I don't think I'll be able to break it… and the rest of the drivetrain will likely go before the fly!

The pressure plate has groves worn into it and the clutch disk wasn't in the best shape on the pressure plate side so it looks like it should be replaced. That was a pretty serious clutch setup. Do you remember what the pressure plate was from?

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Gumby Thanks for the info! I ended up turning down the washer to fit the steel fly because the original fly didn't have the tapper in the face. I'm assuming you had a manual machinist make the flywheel? I don't know the exact alloy but I agree with you I don't think I'll be able to break it… and the rest of the drivetrain will likely go before the fly! The pressure plate has groves worn into it and the clutch disk wasn't in the best shape on the pressure plate side so it looks like it should be replaced. That was a pretty serious clutch setup. Do you remember what the pressure plate was from?

The pressure plate is a Blowproof Webber 9 1/4" Mopar unit that was used on small block 273-318 Plymouth V8's the Disc is a 9 1/8" McClod for a Vega and I used a Vega release bearing. If you contact McClod and sent them the disc they can reline it using the solid hub and marsel springs from the old disc. Yes it was made on a manual lathe by yours truely and it started life as a 40 pound piece of 1 1/8" mild steel plate and I don't think you will break it

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 The pressure plate is a Blowproof Webber 9 1/4" Mopar unit that was used on small block 273-318 Plymouth V8's the Disc is a 9 1/8" McClod for a Vega and I used a Vega release bearing. If you contact McClod and sent them the disc they can reline it using the solid hub and marsel springs from the old disc. Yes it was made on a manual lathe by yours truely and it started life as a 40 pound piece of 1 1/8" mild steel plate and I don't think you will break it

I figured because of the tool marks on the back of the fly.

Both disk and pressure plate look usable, but why put something in that will die in 10 - 15k miles and require the transmission pulled. Other than the worn groves (which match in both the clutch and PP) they look to have about 35-45% of their life left. I may be cheapass and save my money since the transmission and engine will likely get pulled again in 6 - 12 months anyway to get new pistons, some machine work to the block (increase bore, general recondition), and a ZF 5 speed (if I can find one) at the very least.

Is there any reason why the opel release bearing wouldn't work or couldn't be made to work? It looks big enough, although I have concerns about its durability pushing against what looks like a great deal more spring pressure.

[opelnut10]

You can use the Opel release bearing if it is the type with the flat face, I have seen them with the flat face and the rounded face (which you don't want to use) I just used the Vega because they are plentiful and every one of them I have seen had the flat face surface that engages the pressure plate fingers, I think that clutch will more than likely go another 25-30 thousand miles because you cannot slip it, the springs in the pressure plate are not the full set if you look and it is not hard on release bearings.

[Gumby]

I have a few questions!

What do you recommend as the torque specs for the bolts that hold the flywheel on and the bolts that hold the pressure plate on?

I believe I have everything I need to put this thing back into the car this weekend now that my OGTS order has arrived!

[opelnut10]

Torque the Flywheel to Crank bolts to the torque specs in the FSM in a triangular pattern and in two or three stages. The pressure plate to flywheel bolt I gave you are high grade and will take 20 lbs. I like to use a drop of red Thread locker on the crank & pressure plate bolts. Make sure you "chase" the pressure plate bolt holes before you install them.

[Gumby]

Oddly enough I don't have a service manual for my Opel and that bit of information I can't seem to find online.

[opelnut10]

The recommended torque is 43 lbs. and again tighten them in 2 or three stages using a triangular pattern for them.

[namba209]

There is an FSM in the Opel Tech Center, but it isn't accessible right now. I sent Gary an advisory. To assist in your query, according to my Clymer's the flywheel bolts are to be torqued at 43 ft. lbs. and the pressure plate is to be torqued in increments to 15 ft. lbs. These torques are based on the OEM fastners, so the 20 ft. lbs., mentioned earlier for high tensile strength bolts should be O.K.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 Yes the s-10 clutch setup will fit inside the 4 speed bellhousing, you will need to come up with a longer throwout arm adjustment stud. If you are interested, PM me I have what you need as far as the flywheel setup.

Did you ever have your setup inside of a 4spd bellhousing? Looks like there are clearance issues... there is a little bit of interference from the throwout arm/bearing and with both of those removed the inside of the bellhousing also has interference. I think the easiest solution will be a spacer plate. Thoughts, concerns, etc?

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Gumby Did you ever have your setup inside of a 4spd bellhousing? Looks like there are clearance issues... there is a little bit of interference from the throwout arm/bearing and with both of those removed the inside of the bellhousing also has interference. I think the easiest solution will be a spacer plate. Thoughts, concerns, etc?

Yes, I ran that setup inside a GT bellhousing only because the throwout arm is at more of an angle than the Kadett. I did not have any interference however you are limited as to the amount of throwout arm adjustment but as long as you have freeplay on the arm you can work with the cable adjustment at the firewall to set the engagement point on the pedal travel.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 Yes, I ran that setup inside a GT bellhousing only because the throwout arm is at more of an angle than the Kadett. I did not have any interference however you are limited as to the amount of throwout arm adjustment but as long as you have freeplay on the arm you can work with the cable adjustment at the firewall to set the engagement point on the pedal travel.

Problem is, at least with the bellhousing I have, even with the throwout arm removed the bellhousing doesn't fit. I can't create clearance by just grinding off some of the bellhousing because even with the pivot ball removed the throwout arm does not fit inside the bellhousing with the pressure plate bolted on. Everything just needs 1/4 - 1/2 more room and I could make it work (ie a spacer between the engine block and the bellhousing).

Something else I noticed while working on this last night is that the 2.4 and 1.9 blocks are not exactly the same. The bolt pattern for the bellhousing is similar but different especially in the bottom bolt locations and sizes.

The spacer plate would alleviate both issues of the bolt locations and clearance. The only downside I can see is that I have to fabricate it.

I think for the pivot arm stud I am just going to drill and retap in a more common thread. I'm curious why more people don't do this and instead have custom parts made...

[oldopelguy]

I still don't understand why anyone even changes the stud at all. Seems to me the issue isn't that the stud is the wrong length so much as that the throw-out bearing is further away from the arm with the now thinner flywheel. To fix that it would be as easy or easier to weld a couple small 1/4" spacers on the ears of the arm that the bearing rides against. That's always been my plan, anyway, but I just haven't made it around to working on any manual transmissions yet with the automatics spread out all over the workbench.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy I still don't understand why anyone even changes the stud at all. Seems to me the issue isn't that the stud is the wrong length so much as that the throw-out bearing is further away from the arm with the now thinner flywheel. To fix that it would be as easy or easier to weld a couple small 1/4" spacers on the ears of the arm that the bearing rides against. That's always been my plan, anyway, but I just haven't made it around to working on any manual transmissions yet with the automatics spread out all over the workbench.

I would exercise caution here Stephen, the clutch arm is high strength steel that has been heat treated. Welding on it usually makes it crack (it becomes very brittle adjacent to the weld area). Found this out modifying them for twin disc racing clutches.

Bob

[oldopelguy]

Well, if my welder isn't up to the task, how about making a couple of cylinders, with 1/4" walls, to slip over the little nubs on the throw-out bearing? That or make the spacers for the arm fit the contour but clip in place instead of welding directly to the arm. It's not like they could go far, and all the load on it would be pushing them in place.

Either way, seems to me that that modification would be as easy as the stud, or easier.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by Gumby I think for the pivot arm stud I am just going to drill and retap in a more common thread. I'm curious why more people don't do this and instead have custom parts made...

The throw-out arm adjustment stud is a ball and socket setup on the end of the arm. You just won't find any of those at your local auto parts store. They are usually brand specific and only at the dealer's parts store. They are also high end grade 8 or more and possibly heat treated. Most folks have gone with wheel studs of a longer length and ground a ball on the end to fit the socket. With all the pressure place on the stud during clutch disengagement, there is a lot of pressure on the stud, and your local hardware store bolt just won't get it.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy I still don't understand why anyone even changes the stud at all. Seems to me the issue isn't that the stud is the wrong length so much as that the throw-out bearing is further away from the arm with the now thinner flywheel. To fix that it would be as easy or easier to weld a couple small 1/4" spacers on the ears of the arm that the bearing rides against. That's always been my plan, anyway, but I just haven't made it around to working on any manual transmissions yet with the automatics spread out all over the workbench.

I think from a fabrication standpoint replacing the stud is a lot "easier" than welding the arm itself. Not saying that isn't a good idea but not everyone has the gear or know-how to weld. Just like not everyone has a lathe to cut custom threads on. Drills on the other hand are common and taps are easy to use.

Originally Posted by RallyBob I would exercise caution here Stephen,