Classic 2.4L Swap

[Gumby]

I was unable to procure a cheap hayabusa engine so I am moving forward with a 2.4L swap instead. One of the members here asked that I detail the transaction and the process of importing an engine from Germany/Europe since this information may be of interest to others.

I have an engine from Germany that will be on its way here next week. The engine has already been modified to fit in the GT (ex. cut down 3.0l intake) and comes with all accessories (starter, distributor, complete injection, etc).

Other members may want to consider this route since it is cheaper than going to OGTS. Shipping is 790 from iloxx and 864 from DHL to Oregon. Both numbers are in euros. Current exchange rate as of today is 1:1.54. Also consider that I am on the west coast. Shipping to the east coast is likely going to be cheaper. This is air freight which means that it will be here 3 (DHL) – 7 (Iloxx) days after it is picked up in Germany.

Now I am looking for a new 3 or 4 core radiator, fuel pump, transmission, and clutch to work with this combo. I already have larger brakes for the car.

For the radiator I’d like to get something that fits in the current radiator location without modifying any of the body. Ideally I’d just make some brackets to fit the new radiator and bolt it in. For the clutch I haven’t decided if I want to go the S-10 route or try and stick with an beefier Opel clutch.

Transmission options as I see it right now are the 240 or the 265. I’m not sure how well the 265 fits in the GT. If it will go in with minimal body work I may go this route since it will take a lot more hp. Was the 265 ever available in the US?

A little bit of information of the intended use of this engine. I plan on using it as a daily driver so massive hp is out of the question at least for right now. I also hate to rev a street engine much beyond 6500rpm so hydraulic lifters are much preferred.

I have a few questions that I couldn’t get answered while searching for 2.4L information here on the forums. Assuming a completely or almost complete stock head what cam will give improvement in the low peak power of the 2.4 without adversely affecting idle or the fuel injection? I’ve read the injection system at least on the older engines does not like a lot of overlap. If I do make improvements to the head where is my efforts best spent? I’m assuming that larger valves with the associated porting work on the intake will probably be the best bang for my buck but are there larger valves available in the US or do I need to look to Europe for these? I am aware Chevy? valves can be made to fit the Opel heads but will this work well with the 2.4 since it already has larger valves than the 1.9?

Any input would be great!

[namba209]

Gumby, most radiator shops can put a 3 or 4 row radiator in place of the two row you already have. It's just a matter of removing the upper and lower tanks and putting them on the new core. I got a 3-row put in Willit? and it works fairly well and uses the original mounts. I had to put in an overflow tank because the computer doesn't turn on the fan until the coolant reaches 230 degrees. That shouldn't be a problem with your proposed engine swap, though, your fan will be running continually and the thermostat opens at around 180 degrees. HTH.

[Gumby]

Good suggestion. How much did your radiator cost?

[opelwasp]

I am using a stock radiator and a 16" electric fan. No overheating whatsoever, and my 2.4L is far from stock.

[Gumby]

And you are down south from me.

Are you constantly running the fan or is it temp controlled?

[GTJIM]

The 2.4 head already has much larger valves in it than the 1.9 head - quite big enough for sub-6,500rpm street use. The cam used in the 2.4 has little or no extra duration compared to the 1.9L hydraulic cam - depends upon if you intend to use the original Bosch 'flap' type air valve or go to a later model type of air sensor 'hot wire' unit. With the more modern unit there is no 'flap' to be upset by the pulsing airflow cause by a cam with more overlap. That being said - for sub-6,500rpm street use only a fairly mild cam is needed - say the hydraulic 'combo' cam spec range.

The 265 Getrag is far bigger and stronger than a 240 or 245 (I think the numbers relate to the distance between the centre of the main and cluster shafts ?? confirm, anyone!). They used a 262 Model Getrag in the Opel Omega with the 2.4L motor - but it is a very heavy car and the lighter GT should be OK with the smaller 240/245 unit.
Far fewer of the Opel 265 Getrags about too as most big Opels had autos rather than 5-speeds - they mainly came in GTE Monzas from 1979-87; from my recollection. BMW also used them and you can use a BMW 265 Getrag with the Opel bell housing as on the 265 they are separate.

There is a listing of Opel gearbox specs on site ... somewhere ...

[opelwasp]

I have the fan always on. I use a relay to activate it. Someone warned me if I run it constant it will burn out fast, but I called Hayden, the manufacturer. The said if I was using it 24 hours a day it could be a problem, but in a car it will only be on a few hour at a time so it will last just fine. So I'll take their word.

[Gumby]

I'll be using the air sensor from a 3.0 engine. I seem to remember rallybob saying somewhere on here that the stock 2.4 is done making power somewhere in the 4000rpm range. I'd like the engine to pull hard to at least 6500. Can someone point me in the direction of a camshaft that will do that?

Opelwasp was that fan a replacement for the stock fan or in addition to?

[wrench459]

why do you want larger valves when you only turning the girl 6 grand. head work WHY?
It's only a silly 2.4 that cant rev.
Hang on Dan your going to get slammed

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by wrench459 why do you want larger valves when you only turning the girl 6 grand. head work WHY? It's only a silly 2.4 that cant rev. Hang on Dan your going to get slamed

Wait I thought there was benefits to improving upon the air flow of the cih engines. Is this not true with the 2.4? The cars current purpose is a daily driver but supercharging the engine later on down the road is not out of the question.

I appreciate you pointing this out... but it would be a lot more helpful if you list specifics on why this isn't a good idea instead of just asking why.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Gumby Wait I thought there was benefits to improving upon the air flow of the cih engines. Is this not true with the 2.4? The cars current purpose is a daily driver but supercharging the engine later on down the road is not out of the question. I appreciate you pointing this out... but it would be a lot more helpful if you list specifics on why this isn't a good idea instead of just asking why.

becareful with the std 2.4 pistons they are quite fragile,
don't go beyond CR9.5 & 6000rpm,
if you plan to improve your head flow then forged pistons are advised.
HTH,
Hiro

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Gumby I appreciate you pointing this out... but it would be a lot more helpful if you list specifics on why this isn't a good idea instead of just asking why.

It is the difference between a high-winding 302 Chevy V8 and a stock 400 motor - one short stroke with impact extruded pistons and a solid lifter cam - max horsepower at 7,000 rpm and the other with long stroke with cast pistons, a mild hydraulic cam and max horsepower at 4,500 rpm.

To uprate the bigger motor takes knowledge and dollars - both expensive and not available in a few printed words of free advice!

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Hiro becareful with the std 2.4 pistons they are quite fragile, don't go beyond CR9.5 & 6000rpm, if you plan to improve your head flow then forged pistons are advised. HTH, Hiro

I'll keep that in mind if I end up making any modifications to the engine. Thanks!

Originally Posted by GTJIM To uprate the bigger motor takes knowledge and dollars - both expensive and not available in a few printed words of free advice!

Very true but then if it isn't available as free advice on these forums where should I look for such information? I am just trying to get a feel for the needed modifications and cost associated with building a 2.4. This isn't something that will be done anytime soon but I do plan on budgeting to save for that.

[neuropel]

I've had a 2.4 project underway for some time as well. Check this thread for some relevant information on valve sizing, cam specs, etc.
If you do a search for the 2.4L here, keep in mind that there are two paths to getting the 2.4 displacement. Some members have converted 1.9L blocks to 2.4L by installing larger pistons and increasing the crank stroke - same displacement but a different beast in many ways, especially regarding the cylinder heads. Be sure to learn and know all the differences between the 2.2L and 2.4L Opel engines versus the earlier versions that originally came in our Opels.

Todd K.

[Gumby]

I've seen your thread. That engine looks killer with the ITB setup you have!

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Gumby For the clutch I haven’t decided if I want to go the S-10 route or try and stick with an beefier Opel clutch. Transmission options as I see it right now are the 240 or the 265. I’m not sure how well the 265 fits in the GT. If it will go in with minimal body work I may go this route since it will take a lot more hp. Was the 265 ever available in the US?

Keep in mind that the 265 Getrag has a different clutch spline than the 240 Getrag, so you'll need a custom disc either way (S-10 or Opel pressure plate). One nice thing is the S-10 stuff is cheaper, very strong, and highly available in the US.
A 240 is really fine for most applications, the 265 is overkill unless you are making big power. Plus, the 265 needs a lot more work to fit your vehicle, and needs the Opel-specific bellhousing to fit (from Europe only).

I also hate to rev a street engine much beyond 6500rpm so hydraulic lifters are much preferred.

Not to worry, peak power is at 4800 rpms in the 2.4. It takes a LOT to make good power up to 6500 rpms. Like a BIG cam, headwork, induction and exhaust work....

A good example was MantAscona's 2.4 Manta at Carlisle. Dynoed 125 hp @ the rear wheels, and 150 ft lbs at the rear wheels (rated at 128 @ the flywheel stock). He had a ported head with stock valves and some milling, stock shortblock, healthy solid-lifter cam, 45 DCOE Webers with Dbilas intakes and 36 mm chokes, 2.4 exhaust manifold and 2.5" exhaust system. Peak power was at 5400-5500 rpms. 6500 rpms was a waste of time, the dyno confirmed it! His new engine combo will be a monster, but it has appreciably higher compression, bigger cam, more headwork, etc.

Samdog's 2.5 Opel Sportwagon with .500" lift/248° @ .050" roller cam, roller rockers, Chevy valves, heavy porting, forged pistons, higher compression, 2.5" exhaust made 152 hp @ the wheels at 6500 rpms. Takes a bit more work to make a 2.4 make power upstairs. It revs to 7500 rpms but it has started tapering off by 6600. Hopefully his new combo (equal length header, aftermarket EFI, etc) will add another 500 rpms to the powerband, but it's not cheap. I have 2.5 days into the header alone!

Assuming a completely or almost complete stock head what cam will give improvement in the low peak power of the 2.4 without adversely affecting idle or the fuel injection? I’ve read the injection system at least on the older engines does not like a lot of overlap.

They hate overlap with stock EFI.

A few key points: The stock valve springs bind @ .475". The duration @ .050" should be less than 220° preferably, I've used as high as 224° @ .050" and that was pushing it. Lobe separation angle needs to be much wider than on a 1.9/2.0/2.2....I use 112° to 114° LSA typically. Otherwise it will idle rough and run out of top end power.

If I do make improvements to the head where is my efforts best spent? I’m assuming that larger valves with the associated porting work on the intake will probably be the best bang for my buck but are there larger valves available in the US or do I need to look to Europe for these? I am aware Chevy? valves can be made to fit the Opel heads but will this work well with the 2.4 since it already has larger valves than the 1.9

It will cost you quite a lot to upgrade to bigger valves and the associated porting work. Figure $1500 or more without a camshaft.

BUT, the 2.4 head responds to mild porting with the stock valves (about 14-15% more flow), and some milling of the head can also bump compression. In conjunction with a mild hydraulic cam, you can see a strong improvement in power across the rpm range.

HTH,
Bob

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Gumby Very true but then if it isn't available as free advice on these forums where should I look for such information?

A good start is the Clymer Publications Book "Souping the Stock Engine"
It outlines 'The Paths to Power' ; introduces 'Leadfoot Louie' and gives timeless advice on increasing the performance of stock motors. Admitidly, it was published in 1950 and deals with Sidevalve V8 Fords plus straight-six Chevy and GMC motors but the basics do still apply - reprinted in 1997

Souping the Stock Engine by Roger Huntington (1997) - eBay (item 170160875024 end time May-17-08 09:08:17 PDT)

Then Look at: "Smokey's Power Secrets" by Smokey Yunick

Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets: 40 Years of Race-Winning Experience

and move on to: " 21st Century Performance"

Amazon.co.uk: 21st Century Performance: Julian Edgar, David Heinrich: Books



Lots of the stuff in Threads on this site may make much more sense and you will be equiped to sort out what fits the building of the motor you need for your particular use.

[Gumby]

Thanks everyone for the information!

The engine should be here in about a 10 days. I'll post pictures once it gets here.

Well I just got my federal kicker check today. So I will definitely be modifying the engine.

[Gumby]

Can anyone give me a good estimate of how many hours I should expect to spend on doing this kind of swap? Thanks!

[namba209]

If you're just dropping one engine out and sliding another in, there are folks on the site that have done it in about 4 hours. I would think it would take a bit more if you haven't done it.

[Gumby]

I've never pulled an Opel engine before but this isn't really anything new to me. I'll take my time. I'm figuring getting it done over a months worth of weekends. The biggest PITA looks to be the fuel lines and the fuel tank.

The engine is scheduled to be here next Friday.

[Gumby]

YAHOO! The engine cleared customs today. I'll be driving up and picking it up tomorrow.

Unfortunately we discovered a pretty serious water leak underneath our kitchen sink... upon tearing up the floor lots of mold/water damage was found so until I get that repaired no opel time

[Gumby]

FYI for anyone looking to do this duties on the engine end up being 2.5%

Pictures!

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One honkin flywheel!
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edit: err image tags don't work anymore?

[Gumby]

Question!

The 2.4 pistons are supposedly weak for high rpm use or boost. But I am wondering if this is true for all 2.4l engines. I've found information that indicate not all years had the same pistons and that some of the years were stronger than others.

Also the flywheel on my 2.4 is distinctly different than the 40lb+ monster described elsewhere here on the forums.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Gumby Question! The 2.4 pistons are supposedly weak for high rpm use or boost. But I am wondering if this is true for all 2.4l engines. I've found information that indicate not all years had the same pistons and that some of the years were stronger than others.

they are all weak above 6000rpm & about CR9.5
I think linear speed is bordeline for a cast piston because of increased stroke
(6500rpmx85mm = 18.4m/s)
this problem in enhanced by of the bad rod ratio (1.57) that puts huge lateral load on the piston & bore.
Hiro