Ecotec dimensions

[jtb]

Hi Folks,

OK, I have searched around and looked at the ecotec swap threads. I am thinking about an ecotec swap (in the engine bay, not the back of the car ) into a GT. I know it has been discussed, but...
Has anyone actually measured this up and verified that it would fit? I've got the dimensioned drawings of the block from the GM web site, and it will fit (sitting quite low, but no lower than my currently swapped engine), but what about the peripherals (starter, alternator, etc.) and the intake? The exhaust should be OK.
Also, the Aisin Transmission from a solstice has the shifter mounted way at the back of the tranny, it would need to come forward quite a bit to work with the GT. Can this be done?
Anyone familiar with the T5 transmission and it's shifter location/relocation possibilities? There's an adapter bellhousing here to mate a T5 to an ecotec, but it's quite pricey: Bellhousing (ECT5)
The ecotecs look really wide to me, and I would just like to know how tight a squeeze it would be.

Thanks!

jtb

[oldopelguy]

The Chevy colorado/canyon transmission is the same MA5 as the Solstice, with one gear having a different ratio (third, I think) and the shifter further forward. Bolts right up to the solstice bell housing. I have one of the solstice bell housings too, if you need it.

[jtb]

Thanks!

Do you know how much further forward the shifter is in the Canyon? With the solstice trans, it has to come forward about a foot to fit the GT, according to the measurements gleaned from a fellow at a junkyard. I know with the mazda tranny I'm currently running I had to bring it forward about 9" (the engine sits as far rearward as I could get it).

jtb

[heimue]

I could tell you everything you need about the German version of the Ecotec (one is not enough... ), but I assume you mean the one that is/was available in the States?

Dieter

[jtb]

Originally Posted by heimue I could tell you everything you need about the German version of the Ecotec (one is not enough... ), but I assume you mean the one that is/was available in the States? Dieter

Yes, I was referring to the ones available in North America (Sorry, we Canadians are a bit touchy), either the 2.2 L61 or the 2.4 LE5

Cheers,

jtb

[officertyo]

I just got a 2.2 ECOTEC for my swap in a Ascona, i could measure it for you. But i do not have alternator or starter for it yet, so i do not know how much of a help i can be for you. I also have some pics of the engine in my gallery.

[officertyo]

Originally Posted by jtb Yes, I was referring to the ones available in North America (Sorry, we Canadians are a bit touchy), either the 2.2 L61 or the 2.4 LE5 Cheers, jtb

From what i have been reading, getting the VVT to work on the LE5 is a pain in the butt. I guess you need the BCM and anti theft system. I am not sure or even read about a stand alone being able to work the VVT.

[jtb]

I would try and get the PCM and wiring harness with the engine. If I were to do this swap, I would try to buy a whole wreck to make sure I get everything I need! My friend just swapped a Nissan 240 engine into his Triumph, and he went back to the junkyard countless times for sensors and other miscellaneous bits. Failing that, apparently you can lock the VVT on the 2.4 and forget about it.

jtb

[heimue]

Originally Posted by jtb ... in North America (Sorry, we Canadians are a bit touchy),... jtb

Oops, sorry, bad Dieter. Sit. Stay.

Dieter

[blancojp]

Originally Posted by jtb Hi Folks, OK, I have searched around and looked at the ecotec swap threads. I am thinking about an ecotec swap (in the engine bay, not the back of the car ) into a GT. I know it has been discussed, but... Has anyone actually measured this up and verified that it would fit? I've got the dimensioned drawings of the block from the GM web site, and it will fit (sitting quite low, but no lower than my currently swapped engine), but what about the peripherals (starter, alternator, etc.) and the intake? The exhaust should be OK. Also, the Aisin Transmission from a solstice has the shifter mounted way at the back of the tranny, it would need to come forward quite a bit to work with the GT. Can this be done? Anyone familiar with the T5 transmission and it's shifter location/relocation possibilities? There's an adapter bellhousing here to mate a T5 to an ecotec, but it's quite pricey: Bellhousing (ECT5) The ecotecs look really wide to me, and I would just like to know how tight a squeeze it would be. Thanks! jtb

I believe this adapter is for the front wheel drive version of the Ecotec which is a very common engine. You might find that cost wise, the FWD engine will be about 1/4 to 1/2 the price of a RWD unit. They also have the cooling pipes and so on that you will need for the conversion.

If you have not done any purchasing yet, I would recommend you to look into a Quad-4 engine instead. The ability to run the engine without GM electronics are more valuable than to have to by-pass some of the ECU's features just to get the engine running.

I have done both conversions on a GT and the performance is just about the same with a TH350 tranny. The block is about the same size but the mounting points are the biggest issue and they depend on which block you use. The Quad-4 from a Pontiad Grand am is the easiest since you can use either the high or the low mounts and they are about 16" appart. The Ecotec has high mounts on some blocks which they will interfere with the steering rod and you will need to fabricate a complete different cradle to hold the engine within the bay. And of course last but not least, when you install either engine in a GT, make sure you have rear clearance for the cooling line.

[Travis]

The Ecotec is a beast. I posted a couple pics of one along side a CIH a while back. You can see it here.

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/engine-...tml#post163931

It's gonna be tight tight tight in a GT

One of these days I'll get back on that project...

-Travis

[BQS4]

Originally Posted by Travis The Ecotec is a beast. I posted a couple pics of one along side a CIH a while back. You can see it here. http://www.opelgt.com/forums/engine-...tml#post163931 It's gonna be tight tight tight in a GT One of these days I'll get back on that project... -Travis

It may be tight in a GT, but, what about a Manta/Ascona?

[Travis]

I'll let ya know when I finally get it in there. Prelim measurements show it isn't gonna fit between the cross member and hood. Don't know about width. I'm not afraid to cut and fabricate whatever is needed, so I've largely not worried about it too much.

-Travis

Originally Posted by BQS4 It may be tight in a GT, but, what about a Manta/Ascona?

[jtb]

Originally Posted by blancojp I believe this adapter is for the front wheel drive version of the Ecotec which is a very common engine. You might find that cost wise, the FWD engine will be about 1/4 to 1/2 the price of a RWD unit. They also have the cooling pipes and so on that you will need for the conversion. If you have not done any purchasing yet, I would recommend you to look into a Quad-4 engine instead. The ability to run the engine without GM electronics are more valuable than to have to by-pass some of the ECU's features just to get the engine running. I have done both conversions on a GT and the performance is just about the same with a TH350 tranny. The block is about the same size but the mounting points are the biggest issue and they depend on which block you use. The Quad-4 from a Pontiad Grand am is the easiest since you can use either the high or the low mounts and they are about 16" appart. The Ecotec has high mounts on some blocks which they will interfere with the steering rod and you will need to fabricate a complete different cradle to hold the engine within the bay. And of course last but not least, when you install either engine in a GT, make sure you have rear clearance for the cooling line.

One of the appealing things to me about the ecotec is its light weight. Would you happen to know how the quad 4 compares?

The ecotec's weight is surprisingly close to my existing rotary (they're small, but densely packed with heavy components!).

Good point about the cooling line, I hadn't got that far yet!

I'm not bothered about having to make custom engine mounts, but I'd rather not hack into the Opel body any more than I already have.


Thanks,

jtb

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by jtb One of the appealing things to me about the ecotec is its light weight. Would you happen to know how the quad 4 compares? The ecotec's weight is surprisingly close to my existing rotary (they're small, but densely packed with heavy components!).

According to GM's data, the naturally aspirated 2.2 litre Ecotec weighs 307 lbs. I'm pretty sure the rotary is lighter than that.

Bob

[jtb]

Originally Posted by RallyBob According to GM's data, the naturally aspirated 2.2 litre Ecotec weighs 307 lbs. I'm pretty sure the rotary is lighter than that. Bob

Well Bob, I hope you're wrong (even though you're usually not!)

The data I found was that they were very close in weight when compared in equal form (i.e. with intake, exhaust, alternator, etc and as plain long block). Don't remember exactly what the numbers were or where I found them. Did a quick search just now and found:
Mazda 12A rotary 348 lbs (with oil and water)
Also saw shipping weight for a "ready to run" 12A was 400lb.

The rotor housings in the 12A are not aluminum, and the rotors themselves are quite heavy too. The ecotec being an aluminum (alloy) block with cast iron liners makes it pretty light.
I was working on the assumption that they were very close in weight, hopefully that is the case.

jtb

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by jtb Well Bob, I hope you're wrong (even though you're usually not!) The data I found was that they were very close in weight when compared in equal form (i.e. with intake, exhaust, alternator, etc and as plain long block). Don't remember exactly what the numbers were or where I found them. Did a quick search just now and found: Mazda 12A rotary 348 lbs (with oil and water) Also saw shipping weight for a "ready to run" 12A was 400lb. The rotor housings in the 12A are not aluminum, and the rotors themselves are quite heavy too. The ecotec being an aluminum (alloy) block with cast iron liners makes it pretty light. I was working on the assumption that they were very close in weight, hopefully that is the case. jtb

Just the 13b core (equivalent to a long block) is under 160lbs with the stock flywheel. Fully dressed with all the stock accessories it is pushing more than 300lbs BUT obviously there is a huge room for improvement in that area by replacing stock parts with aluminum aftermarket goods. Turbo motors are even heavier. The 3 rotor motors is somewhere in the 500lb range but can in stock form produce more than 400hp with out even sweating.

I understand the ecotec to be somewhere around 350lbs dressed so as long as you are comparing NA to NA engine and not Turbo to NA the wankel engine is definitely lighter.

[jtb]

Okay, I searched again and found:

Mazda 12A rotary 348lbs (RX7) (with oil and water)
GM Ecotec 2.2L “305 pounds fully dressed” from GM news release. [Whatever "fully dressed" means]

Mazda 12A rotary 275lbs (w/flywheel, exh manifold), no alt.)
Ecotec (from GM’s web site) 2.4L Shipping Weight: 273 lb (marine engine, with intake, exhaust, no alt. or flywheel)
I know my Mazda flywheel is 20lbs, so even with that factored in, there doesn’t seem to be a huge weight difference, unless I’m missing something here...?

It seems to me that the Mazda, with its cast iron rotors and housings, would be in the same ballpark as the ecotec which uses lightweight materials (aluminum, and even plastic).

Anyways, I did find some dimensions on the GM marine page for the LE5, with intake and exhaust manifolds, o/a height 25.15", width 25.16", and length 24.64".
Here's the site if anyone is interested: http://prod.gm.gmgssm.com/experience...400_Marine.pdf
I don't know if the intake and exhuast manifolds would be the same as what's on the cars, but they might be.

jtb

[jtb]

Originally Posted by Gumby Just the 13b core (equivalent to a long block) is under 160lbs with the stock flywheel. Fully dressed with all the stock accessories it is pushing more than 300lbs BUT obviously there is a huge room for improvement in that area by replacing stock parts with aluminum aftermarket goods. Turbo motors are even heavier. The 3 rotor motors is somewhere in the 500lb range but can in stock form produce more than 400hp with out even sweating.

I guess I should have explained that I am considering replacing my existing ported 12A rotary with an 2.2L or 2.4L ecotec. I know the rotaries can make power, but they are hot, noisy, and get abysmal fuel economy. Fine for a race car, but not so great for a daily driver.

jtb

[jtb]

Originally Posted by blancojp I have done both conversions on a GT and the performance is just about the same with a TH350 tranny. The block is about the same size but the mounting points are the biggest issue and they depend on which block you use. The Quad-4 from a Pontiad Grand am is the easiest since you can use either the high or the low mounts and they are about 16" appart. The Ecotec has high mounts on some blocks which they will interfere with the steering rod and you will need to fabricate a complete different cradle to hold the engine within the bay. And of course last but not least, when you install either engine in a GT, make sure you have rear clearance for the cooling line.

I was just re-reading this post when I came across this. So, to clarify - you have put an ecotec 2.2L or 2.4L into a GT? Were there any modifications required to the body/engine bay or hood? Was the rad in the stock location or did it have to move forward? You mention the automatic transmission, so I'm guessing a standard was never tried?

Thanks,

jtb

[blancojp]

Originally Posted by jtb I was just re-reading this post when I came across this. So, to clarify - you have put an ecotec 2.2L or 2.4L into a GT? Were there any modifications required to the body/engine bay or hood? Was the rad in the stock location or did it have to move forward? You mention the automatic transmission, so I'm guessing a standard was never tried? Thanks, jtb

I have done both a 2.2L and a 2.4L into the GT. You lose the firewall section where the accelerator pedal assembly is located and up to 50% of the opening where the steering rod goes through. That is not a problem since you would use a Lokar spoon type unit and cable and you must also re-route the steering rod to clear motor mount.

Other than that, the engine sits at the stock location but the stock radiator can't be used. Not because it does not fit but rather it has reduced cooling capacity for this engine. We used a Honda Accord racing 3 core aluminum radiator and electric fan. All of the wiring requires updating and the ECU was installed at the glove box area. The radiator is pressurized so a water spout was placed on the supply pipe comming from the back of the engine.

Was an awsome machine with the 2.2L and a TH350 tranny. Worth every bit of the $31,000 we charged the customer for the resto mod. The brother was the one that two months later wanted the same thing but with a 2.4L engine instead. He showed up with a list three pages long and took almost 9 months to build his car with a nice big price tag. After all, when you have several Ferraris and Bentleys parked in you tiny 10 car garage, $45,000 for a custom car is a bargain.

So if you know the Soto Rivero brothers in Caguas, you will see them Saturday nights cruising around town in two extreemly fast and modified Red and White '73 Opel GT's with a little Gargoyle decal under the front blitz emblem. The sister however went a different route, she drives a 475HP Lancia Zagato coupe that took almost two years to restore.

I believe I have full detail pictures of the work at the shop. I'll have one of the guys seek them out next week when I am there.

[jtb]

Awesome, thanks for the info!

I have already modified the firewall area and lost the gas pedal area for my existing engine swap (used a Lokar cable but built my own pedal). Chopping up the engine bay a little more doesn't bother me.

I don't have a stock rad, I'm running a double row, double pass aluminum 'scirocco style' rad and electric fans.

I have no idea where the stock engine sits, (I never had one ) but I'm sure I can figure that out.

If you do have any pictures of the conversions they would be very helpful!

Thanks again,

jtb

[jtb]

Hi, me again

I was searching for information about the ecotec 5 speed tranny, Aisin AR5, called the MA5 in GM's world, and came across this site, which has TONS of info on mating manual transmissions with various engines (not just ecotec):
Engine Swap Bellhousings - Jeeps-Offroad.com Bulletin Board
The info is geared towards jeeps, but still lots of useful stuff.

jtb

[neuropel]

So...any pics of this conversion?

[neuropel]

Bump...Any chance those of you who have done this conversion could post some pics?